So they each have under a year's lifespan if you are into tournaments? What a bad deal.

Those maps get boring pretty fast if you play tournaments regularly AND there are LOTS of maps that never see tournament play. So the rotation is not too fast for me.

The official maps are just too expensive for that.

55 minutes ago, DerBaer said:

Those maps get boring pretty fast if you play tournaments regularly AND there are LOTS of maps that never see tournament play. So the rotation is not too fast for me.

The official maps are just too expensive for that.

Sounds like a really sucky situation. I personally can't ever see owning more than... 3 maps? I could eventually see owning one map per big planet from the original trilogy. If I find them on sale.

Seems like a homemade paper map would be the way to practice tournaments. Roll out a sheet of paper, set up your cardboard map on it. Trace the map outline. Remove one piece at a time and draw in the grid, black walls, red terrain, etc. with a set of colored markers or something. Careful not to mark up the edges of the original cardboards.

Edit: Ok ok... I am thinking about the OT settings and coming up with more like a max of 8(!) maps... but that's all! I swear!

Edit II: Also, saving those paper maps to use at "official" tournaments would work because they would be a fast and easy guide for laying down the cardboard pieces on. I might have to try making one for club use.

1 minute ago, TauntaunScout said:

Sounds like a really sucky situation. I personally can't ever see owning more than... 3 maps? I could eventually see owning one map per big planet from the original trilogy. If I find them on sale.

Seems like a homemade paper map would be the way to practice tournaments. Roll out a sheet of paper, set up your cardboard map on it. Trace the map outline. Remove one piece at a time and draw in the grid, black walls, red terrain, etc. with a set of colored markers or something. Careful not to mark up the edges of the original cardboards.

Well this is the thing. I don't know how it is in your local meta, but in Toronto, other than the Premier events, we all roll with vinyl maps. The PDF's are all readily available if you check out the main IA forum page. $20 on the high end but you can do cheaper if you shop around and pull some good coupons off the internet, or get them done on a lower quality material.

The official mats are worth their weight in gold at a thing like Worlds where a ton of people are shuffling around.

If you want to practice for tournaments, your paper map is fine, but you'll find people will prefer to play on the "actual" play surface, even it's a vinyl mat that got printed out. So all you need to do at the next FAQ where a map rotates is take the PDF over to a printer and get it done.

What is worth buying or not buying, especially if it's a convenience/luxury item within the game (which itself is a luxury item), is in the eye of the beholder, and that's also why we tend to look the other way on vinyl mats for quarterly kits and that kind of thing.

Ultimately nobody wants to play with assembling tiles.

3 hours ago, NeverBetTheFett said:

FFG needs to step up and provide the new maps at premier events. They could raffle them off after or take the loss. Anyone know how much one of those cost to produce? No need for packaging even.

There's clearly some legal licensing issue behind the scenes regarding that, and it's why they can only sell it to you from their actual store, since it's an overall "game store" which sells numerous non-FFG products.

From what I've heard from GenCon attendees, FFG doesn't even sell IA at their own booth.

So having them sell you the mat directly at "their" event might be a problem, but you can always (at Worlds, except in your case at Worlds 2017 because of some bad luck), get your load out at their store when you're there for a big event.

Yeah I dunno. I'm starting to come around on the idea of a skirmish starter pack. A dual sided paper map, dice, 15 faction neutral cards, and maybe 20 points each of non-unique Rebel, Imperial, and Scum that are allowed to ally with either side. If you have one pack you can just squeak by in the local gaming stores, where the opponents are bringing their own stuff. If you and your poor friend each have a pack you can play full sized games at the kitchen table. Like what X-Wing had. Something so small and cheap they can put it in Target.

Now, behind the scenes licensing issues, might be a whole other thing. That has plagued Star Wars minis as an overall hobby for a very long time.

20 minutes ago, TauntaunScout said:

Yeah I dunno. I'm starting to come around on the idea of a skirmish starter pack. A dual sided paper map, dice, 15 faction neutral cards, and maybe 20 points each of non-unique Rebel, Imperial, and Scum that are allowed to ally with either side. If you have one pack you can just squeak by in the local gaming stores, where the opponents are bringing their own stuff. If you and your poor friend each have a pack you can play full sized games at the kitchen table. Like what X-Wing had. Something so small and cheap they can put it in Target.

Now, behind the scenes licensing issues, might be a whole other thing. That has plagued Star Wars minis as an overall hobby for a very long time.

None of what you're saying is likely to come to pass as the SKU overall is mostly carrying the weight of Campaign materials and that's what it looks like they're going to keep doing for the future as far as we know.

Those little "figure only" waves that seem to come in between campaign boxes is probably as good as it gets for Skirmish material on the cheap, as the value of those packs is way more weighted towards Skirmish. Being able to "maybe" draw into Jedi Luke's side mission in a campaign isn't really giving you your money's worth on that figure pack like running him in your Skirmish list will.

Also with X-Wing, there is virtually ZERO official support for any kind of fun, casual narrative experience. It's a competitive game meant for competitive play, and it takes some notable people in our player community to give the casuals what they want. X-Wing has been out for over five years at this point and it doesn't look like they have any plans to make some "casuals only" gaming materials, so I wouldn't expect FFG to do the inverse for IA. If their best-selling game won't inspire them to branch out into different product categories within X-Wing (beyond the accessories category of extra dice/fancy dial covers, etc), then I don't have high hopes for a revolutionary "Skirmish Starter" for IA.

This is what I think. I think as far as the effort from FF is likely to go, the spaceships are the wargame and the toy soldiers are the roleplaying game and that's that. Companies like FF, Games Workshop, and so forth seem big to us but they have finite resources and have to be careful where they allocate them. A few massive flops in a row can kill a seemingly stable company. A big gamer company is still a pretty small fish in the market compared to Nestle or Wal Mart.

The release of a dedicated miniature wargame in non-IA scale is a bad sign for future support.

I guess if people are printing their own PDF's of maps for a couple bucks, why bother selling a cheap intro? Rules and cards are all over the web. They sell the dice and you can buy the minis in clampacks. Hasbro sold a $10 Star Wars starter that had 6 minis (making two full size if weird squads), a 20 sided die, and a double sided map. It's not like it's reinventing the wheel. So if they aren't doing it, they must have legal reasons not to, or figure it won't make any money or grow the community.

My guess is they don't think the game has potential in the event space. largely because the product model currently makes it stupid expensive to start.

They have shown that they will try what they can to make it better. the POD play mats are a solution that they could make work on a small scale and they do work for players that are not price sensitive. I'm guessing their margins on these mats are TINY and they are largely seen as a service to their customers. oversize mats are not cheap to make.

They can not officially support the player printed maps so everyone ignores that rule and prints paper/vinyl maps. They could easily stop people hosting the files for these but they don't because they know it's good for the heath of the game.

Obviously its doing fine as a product otherwise they would not be making an app. the app does indicate that they are likely focusing on campaign play. (unless the app has some sort of system for maintaining the map and scenario rotation)

I'm not worried about legion. IA supports the RPG with miniatures, has campaign play, and they have shown they are more than happy to have more than one star wars game in each thematic category (x-wing/armada starwarsLCG/destiny).

$90 to start is not stupid expensive. That is what the core box costs yes? I get the impression that unpainted minis are the norm so theoretically it can start and stop with $90. That's a pretty cheap buy-in to be honest. Playing the game in a rich and rewarding way is not the same as being competitive in tournaments. If you want to be competitive at ANYTHING in life, the norm is that you expect to dump lots of time and/or money into it. $90 to start is less than most miniatures games out there. For $200 you could have a decade's worth of at-home play. It's all relative but Imperial Assault is a cheap hobby.

Maybe my impression of cost is warped because I purchased next to nothing. I got the core box, two of the big boxed expansions, and a couple clampacks, in a store trade for a bunch of my old gaming books and stuff. Later, I traded some Civil War prints for a battlefoam case that fit it all and then spent actual money on a few more clampacks. I just ordered my first roll out mat. So my situation is a bit unique. But if this was the hot game all my friends were playing, and I only wanted to play skirmish with them, I could have picked up the core game, sold the parts I didn't want on ebay, and rolled that money into clampacks for my favorite faction. Plus, if you don't want to play campaign, there's no good reason why two skirmish players can't go in together on a core box and whoever spends more gets the map tiles and dice. One person takes each of the command decks and you divvy up the plastic according to who wants to play what.

But my trading experience aside, this is still not an expensive hobby, compared all the other things out there vying for one's time and money.

To play in events you need the core and whatever expansions the map rotation includes, and that is to just get the map tiles.

The cost of a core is actually $100! remember regular community sustaining events require stores!

Currently you need map tiles for both the core and jaba's realm $160 dollars!

If you own everything but jaba's realm you can not participate in events! It's possible to own hundreds of dollars in imperial assalt and not be turnoment ready!

All of my IA stuff came from the same small local store. Except the Hoth map which I couldn't find anywhere but ebay.

$160 is still cheaper than most miniatures games! And in most games, you have to find a few friends and build a community yourself. There's no FAQ's, errata, etc. coming out for the Oldhammer community or the historical wargamers. They make it themselves.

But being tournament ready is always going to have a high price tag. Being tournament ready for hockey, the SCA, fly fishing, golf, soccer, or anything, costs WAY more than just playing it with your friends for fun. Skirmish costs $100. That's the whole buy-in for new members of the community. Being a part of skirmish is different than being a threat at the state championships or whatever. If you don't like the requirement to buy the latest expansions to get the in-rotation maps, then organize a tournament that doesn't require them.

On October 10, 2017 at 10:51 PM, TauntaunScout said:

Being a part of skirmish is different than being a threat at the state championships or whatever. If you don't like the requirement to buy the latest expansions to get the in-rotation maps, then organize a tournament that doesn't require them.

This is what it all boils down to. If we dispense with hyperbole and get down to material facts, let's look at one's local scene; do you have a handful of people that are all gung-ho to play some competitive skirmish but don't want to spend, let's call it $200 to get a Core, Jabba's Realm and a couple of key figures like Jabba/Luke/C-3P0? Get with your store and organize an intro tournament event where the prize are basically everyone's admission going towards credit for some IA product. You shouldn't worry too much about some high-level veteran IA player swooping in to claim it because the credit would be for product they likely already own.

This way everyone just plays with what they have, and you use the maps from the Core, or other maps from different packs that only require Core tiles, depending on what your resources are to acquire that intel.

But seriously, just print vinyl maps for cheap, unless you're planning on attending Premier-level things. By everyone looking the other way on vinyl maps, it makes the events go way easier and gets everyone out to the table for a nominal investment.

Now let's address your other point, which is the contrast between playing some competitive Skirmish (or even casual Skirmish pick-ups at a game night) and trying to legitimately compete at a level event like a National or Worlds.

I'm going to put this in all caps because sometimes the whining I see and hear from some players seems to indicate to me that they're not getting a basic aspect of going into competitions;

YOU NEED TO LEARN HOW TO MANAGE YOUR EXPECTATIONS

Let me explain.

Whether you're a returning World Champ or someone who's in for their first day on the job, you need to be honest with yourself about what you're coming out to do on game day.

Using myself as an example at Worlds back in May, my inner dialog went something like this;

"Well, I sure do love this game. I feel like if I sit down and come up with some kind of list to support this baller Rancor model, I can have a blast all day going "RANCOR SMASH!!!" in my head while I meet some players from outside the Toronto meta. If I really buckle down, I might even get away with a trip into Day 2 and possibly score some dice. Either way though, barring a complete chud of an opponent, I should have a great time getting in some games and collecting that sweet, sweet swag."

So what's going on is that I have no delusions about making it to the final table as a realistic outcome for me here. I'm going to have a good time and give it my best shot. When I say I'm going to "have a good time", I genuinely mean I'm out to have fun here. I hear people say that sometimes, but it comes out in this super salty posture, like "I just got curbstomped and this is what I'll say to cope with getting utterly wrecked by a superior opponent".

You went to a competition People are playing to win. If people are also being total dickheads to you, then you're not going to have fun. If you play against Paul Heaver, you will (likely) not come out of that the winner of the match (based on verified statistical IA data from Worlds over the last two years) but you should have a good time (based on numerous accounts of the man's opponents who mostly all lay behind him as a trail of proverbial corpses in his wake).

You can lose and have fun, providing you and your opponent are genuinely out to have fun. I don't care how top tier net listing my opponent is being, if they're good people, I'll have a good time. If your issue is "power gamer" lists, then that's a problem with Imperial Assault and you need to re-examine your decision to continue to come out to competitive IA and support the game in that fashion.

Make a YouTube series on janky Skirmish lists and what happens when they interact with other lists. People will enjoy it.

You can always find a way to be productive in a competitive community. Just don't try and divide it out into small parts when ours is already small enough as it is. We all need to just sit down and move our pieces and let the dice roll as they will.

If you've thought all of this through and think that you don't have a chance of making the final table at Worlds, it is absolutely NOT time to open a vein and/or sell your IA stuff. Go for the social gathering. Make some tournament friends. You'll enjoy seeing the familiar faces as you go. Friendly rivalries are great sources of entertainment.

I have a long list of salty runbacks I want to engage in, and there's a few people with similar vendettas going right back at me. When we next pair it will just add to the story. The time you snatched victory from the jaws of defeat or gave it all away because you were like a dog with a bone and wouldn't adjust your tactics until it was too late.

We've all been there, but isn't that the fun of it? Sometimes I feel like I'm doing it all wrong out here, but surely I'm not the only one positively entertained by what goes down when we bring our little plastic Star Wars toys out to play for the day?

Yup. There's about a million ways to run a tournament that doesn't exclude new people. My favorite is to award victory points for things beyond actual games. Paintjobs, sportsmanship, etc. Someone could swoop in with a highly revved up list and win all the battles but still lose the tournament. Also here's a crazy idea, don't have prizes beyond bragging rights. Or give out a vaguely useful-to-everyone prizes. First through third places get non-unique clampacks. First place gets first pick, second place gets next pick, third place gets whatever is left. Last place gets a new set of dice! You know what else makes a great tournament prize for newbies that no pay-to-win math jock will want to poach? A paint set.

If your small community is hurting for map tiles, take all the entry fees and give out one first place prize, a boxed expansion or neoprene mat. This will gradually build up to where there are so many maps in your store community that you can host official tournaments as only 50% of the players actually need the right map on gameday.

If you look the other way on unofficial but accurate maps and allow the IA cardboard tokens, the basic game comes with enough stuff to play for a very long time. If you grow a little group of players that own various content between them, you will be able to put together a good assortment of maps, try units out before buying them, and so on.

I play with a group of 4 other guys. We have, between the 5 of us, 2 core sets, 3 boxed expansions, 11 clampacks, and as of today, 1 roll out mat. What more could we possibly need? If a new player joined us with their own core set they'd be more than ok. Course if someone joined us and did not bring a core set the command cards and the doors and stuff might be starting to get stretched thin.

The buy-in is $100. That's theoretically also where the costs stop if you allow tokens so that the fringe players have 40 points and the rebels have some grunts. Print small pdf's of the needed maps and draw them by hand at full scale for free. All it takes is a ruler, a pencil, and then when you know it's right and have checked it thrice, you'll need a black sharpie and a blue ballpoint pen to go over the lines, and then a few colors of highlighters for the lines around the special terrain squares. You could churn out endless workable maps for this game for the cost of a sheet of posterboard apiece.

unofficial means to facilitate an event are not what I'm looking for. back door tricks are not the bedrock upon witch to build a community.

locally we do use print outs. or we would if we could get more people there.

13 hours ago, cleardave said:

YOU NEED TO LEARN HOW TO MANAGE YOUR EXPECTATIONS

Let me explain.

Whether you're a returning World Champ or someone who's in for their first day on the job, you need to be honest with yourself about what you're coming out to do on game day.

Using myself as an example at Worlds back in May, my inner dialog went something like this;

"Well, I sure do love this game. I feel like if I sit down and come up with some kind of list to support this baller Rancor model, I can have a blast all day going "RANCOR SMASH!!!" in my head while I meet some players from outside the Toronto meta. If I really buckle down, I might even get away with a trip into Day 2 and possibly score some dice. Either way though, barring a complete chud of an opponent, I should have a great time getting in some games and collecting that sweet, sweet swag."

So what's going on is that I have no delusions about making it to the final table as a realistic outcome for me here. I'm going to have a good time and give it my best shot. When I say I'm going to "have a good time", I genuinely mean I'm out to have fun here. I hear people say that sometimes, but it comes out in this super salty posture, like "I just got curbstomped and this is what I'll say to cope with getting utterly wrecked by a superior opponent".

You went to a competition People are playing to win. If people are also being total dickheads to you, then you're not going to have fun. If you play against Paul Heaver, you will (likely) not come out of that the winner of the match (based on verified statistical IA data from Worlds over the last two years) but you should have a good time (based on numerous accounts of the man's opponents who mostly all lay behind him as a trail of proverbial corpses in his wake).

You can lose and have fun, providing you and your opponent are genuinely out to have fun. I don't care how top tier net listing my opponent is being, if they're good people, I'll have a good time. If your issue is "power gamer" lists, then that's a problem with Imperial Assault and you need to re-examine your decision to continue to come out to competitive IA and support the game in that fashion.

Make a YouTube series on janky Skirmish lists and what happens when they interact with other lists. People will enjoy it.

You can always find a way to be productive in a competitive community. Just don't try and divide it out into small parts when ours is already small enough as it is. We all need to just sit down and move our pieces and let the dice roll as they will.

If you've thought all of this through and think that you don't have a chance of making the final table at Worlds, it is absolutely NOT time to open a vein and/or sell your IA stuff. Go for the social gathering. Make some tournament friends. You'll enjoy seeing the familiar faces as you go. Friendly rivalries are great sources of entertainment.

I have a long list of salty runbacks I want to engage in, and there's a few people with similar vendettas going right back at me. When we next pair it will just add to the story. The time you snatched victory from the jaws of defeat or gave it all away because you were like a dog with a bone and wouldn't adjust your tactics until it was too late.

We've all been there, but isn't that the fun of it? Sometimes I feel like I'm doing it all wrong out here, but surely I'm not the only one positively entertained by what goes down when we bring our little plastic Star Wars toys out to play for the day?

Holy Crap! You nailed it. Although bringing a Ug list to Nationals makes me question your judgement.

More people need to think this way that you talk about above. I quit x-wing because there are way more ways to cheat and win without honour. I would go in to tournaments thinking I was going to have fun playing with cool Star Wars toys and often came out exhausted and annoyed while playing a game that resembled very little about Star Wars. I started loving IA more because I feel it's more thematic and I believe less full of dickheads*. Mainly...I changed my attitude. I would now be about bringing a list built around a faction/figure that I enjoyed in the movies. I could care less about what's winning the internets, I bring what makes me have fun. I also lower my expectation. I can tell you that when I walked into Canadian Nationals and saw some top players from the USA and Canada, I was glad that I came in with the right attitude. I was happy finishing top 16, speaking with some cool fellow IA lovers, and filming the finals and putting it on YouTube (inspired by Jodo Cast and their posting of games with janky lists).

*How did the word dickheads get through the Forum language robo-police?

8 hours ago, NeverBetTheFett said:

Although bringing a Ug list to Nationals makes me question your judgement.

Hey, I wanted to try the social experiment of going into Nationals with this "Super Top Tier Unbeatable Broken List" totally cold and see how it went.

Now while I'm too modest to call myself a great player, I'll say that objectively I land in the "intermediate" category, if that's fair to say. So couple that with a strong list that doesn't take a lot of experience with the list itself to pilot to a decent standard, and you have the makings of a "hitting above your weight" build, like when Palpatine and Soontir started running wild in X-Wing. Or Whisper, pre-Phantom nerf.

Of course it gave me some valuable insight into the Ug situation that makes me better equipped to discuss it's alleged broken-ness and the degrees to which I feel it is and isn't warranted. But that's just me liking to know what I'm talking about, for the most part.

Quote

More people need to think this way that you talk about above. I quit x-wing because there are way more ways to cheat and win without honour. I would go in to tournaments thinking I was going to have fun playing with cool Star Wars toys and often came out exhausted and annoyed while playing a game that resembled very little about Star Wars.

Yes, I stopped playing X-Wing a year ago for a similar reason. I don't mind opponents that run top tier builds in a playing for keeps kind of setting. That's competition. You're at a premier tournament, and coffee's for closers. Seriously. You really need to want to win to get there. That means putting in the hard work to practice and learn all the nuances, and ideally not be a jerk while doing it. BUT, winning's winning. If my opponent isn't cheating and playing ethically, then I don't really care if they're a grumpy player or really personable. Some people are also shy when they meet strangers, some engage in discussion naturally. It's all good, let's just play the game we're here to play though.

So when X-Wing shifted out all the recognizable thematic ships (from my point of view) from the competitive scene, I was left with playing "abstracted spaceship combat game". At first this bothered me not terribly, as I was still a pretty solid Echo pilot, even post-nerf. The Rebel Assault 2 shout-out was always a nice talisman of great times playing Lucasarts videogames in the early to mid-90's.

But then the "playing with your X-Wing friends" thing shifted into more shady players trying to gain a degree or two of angle, "accidentally" tapping debris out of the way to make their travels safer instead of hitting it. Things like that. It wasn't every player, but I saw this pathetic desperation to win at all costs, through nefarious means rather than just being a great player and I started to like it less. Then the tournaments just went on for too long if you were making the cut, so to do all that and still possibly have to deal with some shady player(s) along the way was not very appealing. So to continue to beat my head against the wall in that environment isn't really taking charge of my own destiny that way, and off I went, digging in to IA and it's been a great ride ever since I made the full transition.

Quote

Mainly...I changed my attitude. I would now be about bringing a list built around a faction/figure that I enjoyed in the movies. I could care less about what's winning the internets, I bring what makes me have fun. I also lower my expectation. I can tell you that when I walked into Canadian Nationals and saw some top players from the USA and Canada, I was glad that I came in with the right attitude. I was happy finishing top 16, speaking with some cool fellow IA lovers, and filming the finals and putting it on YouTube (inspired by Jodo Cast and their posting of games with janky lists).

Good man. If you're having fun playing the tournament out that way, then the day is a total win for you, and it's Mission Accomplished. I love when we all meet up for these bigger things and you get the "family reunion" vibe going, but without the politics. It's a good time. It's always weird to me when someone brings their "for fun" list but then doesn't have any. Someone's not being honest with themselves and should probably watch Alec Baldwin's scene from Glengarry Glen Ross a few times.

Also, don't sell yourself short on that Top 16. I believe you officially finished in the Top 14. Take credit for your accomplishments. Have a cup of coffee. You earned it.

Well there's the question of inevitable outcomes. They're boring. Hence the hatred of cheesy lists that short-circuit the rules as written to virtually guarantee a win. It ends up feeling like a checkers game where the other player starts with more pieces than you. The other extreme is taking a "for fun" list that is totally imbalanced in the other direction where there is no chance of it winning. That's not really fun either but there are people who do it just to be stubborn or silly.

8 hours ago, TauntaunScout said:

Well there's the question of inevitable outcomes. They're boring. Hence the hatred of cheesy lists that short-circuit the rules as written to virtually guarantee a win. It ends up feeling like a checkers game where the other player starts with more pieces than you. The other extreme is taking a "for fun" list that is totally imbalanced in the other direction where there is no chance of it winning. That's not really fun either but there are people who do it just to be stubborn or silly.

That's what you get from competitive play. The game is more about trying to do the dance and out-fox someone with that top tier build. If there's no interest for you personally, then it's not doing yourself any favours going to high-level competitive events.

The jank list can still be entertaining in spite of sandbagging your day, because Swiss pairings should keep your with others that aren't crushing it with top tier builds and execution.

Now for casual games, of any kind really, I'm not a huge fan of trying to algorithmically deduce the most efficient outcomes and optimizations. I like to keep it a little more loose so we can all just play for kicks, which is what it's all about. I used to love playing Dominion for example, until the people I was playing with started to "unlock" the strategies to making super efficient decks and then we were basically playing competitive solitaire.

If the competitive game you're interested in doesn't have much int eh way of variety and you're feeling bored, then you've reached the end of your run there and either need to start coming up with new ways to spice it up for yourself, thus creating your own meta game at the tournament, or just pick a different game.

Life's too short to spend it by burning your alleged "play time" away on something that's aggravating to you, and we have no shortage of gaming options in the world.

This wasn't intended to be a metaphor for human relationships of all kind, but we're here now so I'll close with the cliched, ubiquitous "plenty of fish in the sea" remark and leave it at that...

On ‎11‎.‎10‎.‎2017 at 4:51 AM, TauntaunScout said:

All of my IA stuff came from the same small local store. Except the Hoth map which I couldn't find anywhere but ebay.

Do you know, that there is no Hoth mat? I believe, that you're talking about the Nelvaanian Warzone. As the name indicates, this warzone is on Nelvaan, not on Hoth.

20 hours ago, TauntaunScout said:

there are people who do it just to be stubborn or silly.

First you said, that you don't play against opponents, that use highly competitive top tier lists. Now you're insulting players, that play non competitive fun lists.

I get the impression, that you either dislike everyone, that does not play a list you approved before, or you are just trolling.

You are badly informed about the rules (e.g. you didn't know basic tournament rules 2 pages ago) and other things, but confront others with your strong opinion, and even insult others.

There are very different types of players in this forum. Campaign only, skirmish only, everything in between. Highly competitive players using top tier lists only, fun players lookin for a beer an bretzel experience, and everything in between. In my personal experience, within the diverse Imperial Assault community most of these players treat each other with respect. Actually, I've played a lot of different games and have not seen a more respectful community than this.

I'd really appreciate, if you could stop to treat others with such low respect on this forum. Otherwise you are the one giving others (at least me) a bad experience here.

10 hours ago, DerBaer said:

First you said, that you don't play against opponents, that use highly competitive top tier lists. Now you're insulting players, that play non competitive fun lists.

I get the impression, that you either dislike everyone, that does not play a list you approved before, or you are just trolling.

You are badly informed about the rules (e.g. you didn't know basic tournament rules 2 pages ago) and other things, but confront others with your strong opinion, and even insult others.

There are very different types of players in this forum. Campaign only, skirmish only, everything in between. Highly competitive players using top tier lists only, fun players lookin for a beer an bretzel experience, and everything in between. In my personal experience, within the diverse Imperial Assault community most of these players treat each other with respect. Actually, I've played a lot of different games and have not seen a more respectful community than this.

I'd really appreciate, if you could stop to treat others with such low respect on this forum. Otherwise you are the one giving others (at least me) a bad experience here.

Well I'm sorry if I offended you, not trying to. I don't think I used any insulting language and if I did I'm sorry.

I do know that technically the product is called Nelvaanian Warzone yes.

By silly lists I mean stuff like when people used take nothing but 100 unarmed ewoks just to put us all through a very tedious exercise in dice rolling, or drive their own vehicles off of cliffs for no reason. Those are old D6 examples but, I don't want to step on anyone's toes by referencing IA units. I take "for fun" lists myself but I don't do stuff like that.

I was a bit hyperbolic, I apologize. I'll play anyone once. If they bring a hyper competitive list, it depends on the game system and their personality whether or not or I'll play them again. I'm thinking of people at my local store who seriously seem to think that we've got thousands of dollars riding on the outcome of games. They want to use hyper competitive lists, but they also want to do things like use coins to proxy for those powerful units, and they don't want to talk except to tell you when to roll defense dice. Or to say that unit A in my isn't worth taking ever since unit B was released last month. It's just an awful player experience on the other side of the table. I do not play these people twice. I have some preferred opponents who only bring "leaf blower" armies to games, but they paint their figures and are funny and so on.

Edit: I'm going to try a resolution of only talking about what I like and responding to posts I agree with for a month and see if it changes my attitude, and/or people's perception thereof.

18 hours ago, cleardave said:

Now for casual games, of any kind really, I'm not a huge fan of trying to algorithmically deduce the most efficient outcomes and optimizations. I like to keep it a little more loose so we can all just play for kicks, which is what it's all about. I used to love playing Dominion for example, until the people I was playing with started to "unlock" the strategies to making super efficient decks and then we were basically playing competitive solitaire.

Exactly. The other day a guy made us start 30 minutes late because he just kept re-tabulating the odds on his deployment and command cards. "No wait, I actually need two of those and 3 of these..."

On 10/14/2017 at 8:07 PM, cleardave said:

I used to love playing Dominion for example, until the people I was playing with started to "unlock" the strategies to making super efficient decks and then we were basically playing competitive solitaire.

Isn't Dominion always competitive solitaire?

Just kidding; I'm a big fan of Dominion actually