I just tried a game out with myself. Guess what???? I WON!!! lol. no really there were times that after orders were passed out and i had to dig into the random bag of goods just to pull the right command token out at the right time. Vader and the ATRT were going at it... and it was a matter of who was going to pull their token out of the bag. So the AT RT went down cause i got lucky and pulled faders command token out.... now the overwatch or reaction mechanic that we don't have rules for yet may just help this. Maybe my AT RT would have been able to react to vader and run away or attack back. That is how it would have worked if we were playing Dust Warfare, which this game is based off of.

Isn't that what the command phase is for? If available the rebel should have Run a low iniative activation command for the rt at so it got that turn away to run or get it's vader slap in before it got turned to slag.

That kind of instance is going to make cards like battle meditation and comlinks important......as well as choosing and gaming commands.

Edit: It's going to rough at times, but i like it.... mainly for the streamlining. I have no doubt we'll see overwatch as a keyword or action in the future, but the less clutter an activation gets the better imo

How were you playing this? With imperial assualt stuff?

old SWM stuff and the cards from the internet

38 minutes ago, cookluke5150 said:

old SWM stuff and the cards from the internet

Nice, but how the heck did the rt end up in melee with vader?

I'm curious now.....

Ran up to him.. it has a nice claw melee attack of 3 red dice missing only on a 1, and vader was down to a few hit points from shots that I got off on him the round before. If i win the init and command the Atrt he is dead!!!

"Help me like"? You don't need help to develop feelings. You may need help to acknowledge your feelings. And switch off the target computer.

There's really only four ways to do activations.

I-go-you-go, random, PS/Initiative or alternating.

The I-go-you-go system that they use in 40k and some other games, quite frankly sucks. With that system, I move all my stuff, I shoot with all my stuff, I assault with all my stuff, and in a large game with lots of models, like say Imperial Guard/ Astra Militarum or Orks... the other guy may as well go get a coffee or watch a sitcom on netflix. Because they will simply sit there for about 15-20 minutes while you play the game. I personally found it to be a huge missed opportunity on GW's to not change to some other system when they came out with 8th. It was such a huge revamp of the game it would of been the right time to do it.

Alternating simply means I move a unit, shoot and assault with a single unit then you do the same with a single unit, and that goes back and forth until the game is over. This does have the downside of making the number of activations a big deal. I know in IA at one time anyway, the number of activations you had was very important.

PS/Initiative is what they use in X-Wing and would never really work in a game like Legion. The game Ronin uses it but that's a game with a very small model and unit count.

Or random like we have. Of them all I prefer random for a game like this, because it better simulates the ebb and flow of battle most accurately, especially when you have a system like in Legion where you actually have some control over it.

In Bolt Action you just draw dice so other then having more dice than the other guy, there's no way to control when you'll go. In Legion you'll have some control over it, not a lot, since it involves a blind bid. But I think that's fine because in real combat you have perfect control over when things happen, rather you make plans, try to carry out those plans and then react when the plan goes fubar.

So yes, this does in fact mean that from time to time, a game can swing in one person's favor due to "luck" but to quote a wise man "In my experience there's no such thing as luck", and it's not like Legion is nearly as random as Bolt Action with a blind draw deciding who gets to go, and quite often letting the same player go 2,3 or even 4 times in a row, making it seem almost like a I-go-you-go game.

I do think the reaction overwatch mechanic will also help with the unluky event you dont get to activate that unit you really wanted to go with, cause you might at least be able to react with that unit instead of just sitting there and taking up the but from vaders lucky token draw.

It seems that with proper army builds and command card choice, you shouldn't really be picking a random unit when it actually matters.this, you have

Using 2x core sets and an Imperial army, I can have Vader, 2x units of Speeder Bikes and 4x units of Stormtroopers with a variety of options.

• Ambush - 1 Unit - This is used when you only really care about making sure one unit goes first (or last).
• Rush - 2 Units - Pick the two Biker units. Then, you're random pool is really just Vader or the Stormtroopers. There is a little randomness, but not much since you're either pulling a Commander token or a Trooper token, which can activate any of the 4 Stormtrooper units.
• Assault - 3 Units - Pick Vader and the two Biker units. No randomness at all.
• Standing Orders - 1 Unit - This is for those turns where you really don't care what happens. Seems like a good round 1 burner card.
• Implacable - Darth Vader - This is just Ambush for Vader with a benefit. This is only used when you NEED Vader to go first and wreck some face.
• New Ways to Motivate Them - 2 Trooper Units - This is the most random of the lot as you're left with 1x Commander token, 2x Support tokens and 2x Trooper tokens to randomly select from.
• Master of Evil - Darth Vader plus 2 Units - Again, no randomness at all. Pick Vader and the 2 Biker Units.

So, two options (Assault and Master of Evil) have no randomness at all. With several more, you can largely limit the random nature of the cards. Presumably, as we add Commander options, we'll also add more Command cards that limit randomness.

The Rebels have basically the same breakdown. About half of your options will have little to no randomness and the other half will have a fair amount.

3 hours ago, KrisWall said:

It seems that with proper army builds and command card choice, you shouldn't really be picking a random unit when it actually matters.this, you have

Using 2x core sets and an Imperial army, I can have Vader, 2x units of Speeder Bikes and 4x units of Stormtroopers with a variety of options.

• Ambush - 1 Unit - This is used when you only really care about making sure one unit goes first (or last).
• Rush - 2 Units - Pick the two Biker units. Then, you're random pool is really just Vader or the Stormtroopers. There is a little randomness, but not much since you're either pulling a Commander token or a Trooper token, which can activate any of the 4 Stormtrooper units.
• Assault - 3 Units - Pick Vader and the two Biker units. No randomness at all.
• Standing Orders - 1 Unit - This is for those turns where you really don't care what happens. Seems like a good round 1 burner card.
• Implacable - Darth Vader - This is just Ambush for Vader with a benefit. This is only used when you NEED Vader to go first and wreck some face.
• New Ways to Motivate Them - 2 Trooper Units - This is the most random of the lot as you're left with 1x Commander token, 2x Support tokens and 2x Trooper tokens to randomly select from.
• Master of Evil - Darth Vader plus 2 Units - Again, no randomness at all. Pick Vader and the 2 Biker Units.

So, two options (Assault and Master of Evil) have no randomness at all. With several more, you can largely limit the random nature of the cards. Presumably, as we add Commander options, we'll also add more Command cards that limit randomness.

The Rebels have basically the same breakdown. About half of your options will have little to no randomness and the other half will have a fair amount.

^this.

just keep in mind to do it that way you have to wear a 20 point unit tax (long range commlinks on both the bikes) on what is a more expensive force already (thanks vader!) to make it work.

Edit: Back to the op's scenario, looking at it based on info given there must have been something else awfully desperate going on elsewhere, otherwise both sides misused their commands if it was left to rng activation on both sides or op isn't using/understanding the command rules correctly.

Great breakdown, may change a bit once the reaction mechanic is introduced. Can you react only with units that have command tokens, units without tokens?

14 hours ago, Ralgon said:

^this.

just keep in mind to do it that way you have to wear a 20 point unit tax (long range commlinks on both the bikes) on what is a more expensive force already (thanks vader!) to make it work.

Edit: Back to the op's scenario, looking at it based on info given there must have been something else awfully desperate going on elsewhere, otherwise both sides misused their commands if it was left to rng activation on both sides or op isn't using/understanding the command rules correctly.

20 points in an 800 point list isn't all that bad. Vader is definitely pricey compared to Luke, but he's also potentially more deadly.

But yeah, absolutely. I think good players will only end up having to deal with a limited amount of random activation.

I'm also assuming that the 'Ready/Reaction' action will require that you've already activated this turn. It's described as 'hold your action to move or attack at a later time' in one of the FFG articles. My guess is that you activate the unit, take the ready action, gain a 'reaction token' of some sort and then spend that token after an enemy unit has activated to move or attack (but probably not both).

27 minutes ago, KrisWall said:

20 points in an 800 point list isn't all that bad. Vader is definitely pricey compared to Luke, but he's also potentially more deadly.

But yeah, absolutely. I think good players will only end up having to deal with a limited amount of random activation.

I'm also assuming that the 'Ready/Reaction' action will require that you've already activated this turn. It's described as 'hold your action to move or attack at a later time' in one of the FFG articles. My guess is that you activate the unit, take the ready action, gain a 'reaction token' of some sort and then spend that token after an enemy unit has activated to move or attack (but probably not both).

oh there's plenty of other places the rebs save if they choose

1 point on the extra model

6 points on scopes and just rely on the better hit dice

2 points on the z6 vs the dlt19

a 5 point saving on the at rt over bikes until rebs get armor (no need for the tank buster laser)

and as an "i'd have to see it in action yet" but given luke and the atrt are both spoiled @ speed 2 and don't care too much about terrain there is potential they could run as a wolfpack and drop the commlinks as well

stack vader on top of those little chip aways and all of a sudden you end up with nearly an extra at rt or full strength troop unit over 800 points. That may be a game changer..........

5 minutes ago, Ralgon said:

oh there's plenty of other places the rebs save if they choose

1 point on the extra model

6 points on scopes and just rely on the better hit dice

2 points on the z6 vs the dlt19

a 5 point saving on the at rt over bikes until rebs get armor (no need for the tank buster laser)

stack vader on top of those little chip aways and all of a sudden you end up with nearly an extra at rt over 800 points. That may be a game changer..........

We'll see. Rebel Troopers are definitely cheaper, but they have white defense dice, so they'll die quicker. Stormtroopers should be a little more durable as objective holders... and this is an objective game, not a kill points game.

I'm curious to see how effective something like an AT-RT is when you can potentially just run out of its front arc or hide behind line of sight blocking terrain. It doesn't appear that vehicles get a free "rotate" to let them fix their facing. It looks like you need to move forward and use the maneuver/speed tools to change direction. I've played enough Armada to know that lining up firing arcs is a player skill that rewards experience. I'm fully expecting to play games against Speeder Bikes and AT-RTs where my opponent can't get a shot lined up quite right, OR do get a shot, but due to the relatively slow turning radius, never get a useful shot at a second unit. Some Armada ships are like this. If your Victory I-class Star Destroyer is pointed in the wrong direction after finishing off one ship, the best it will get is a weak, rear arc shot at another ship. I think the AT-RT will be the same. It'll hammer it's main target until it's dead and then get pot shots with the rider's pistol for the rest of the game. An AT-RT that doesn't have front arc on your important units and isn't holding an objective is an AT-RT that can be largely ignored.

On 10/2/2017 at 0:13 PM, KrisWall said:

New Ways to Motivate Them - 2 Trooper Units - This is the most random of the lot as you're left with 1x Commander token, 2x Support tokens and 2x Trooper tokens to randomly select from.

quick correction. When the card says troopers it isn't refering to the "command type" of the unit.

The command types in the core are:

Commander: Vader/luke

Core: troopers(rebel or storm)

Support: at-rt/ speeder bikes.

These are what the tokens refer to and are denoted by the symbol to the left of the art on the unit card.

Trooper is a unit type, and those in the core are:

Trooper: luke/vader/troopers(rebel and storm)

Repulsor vehicle: speeder bikes

Ground vehicle: at-rt

These are located under the art on the unit card.

This doesn't change the way the card works much but in certain situations it will allow you to activate Vader when you need to if you've already used your other cards. It is also an important distinction for cards like force push that means Luke can use it on Vader or vice versa.

8 hours ago, Orcdruid said:

quick correction. When the card says troopers it isn't refering to the "command type" of the unit.

The command types in the core are:

Commander: Vader/luke

Core: troopers(rebel or storm)

Support: at-rt/ speeder bikes.

These are what the tokens refer to and are denoted by the symbol to the left of the art on the unit card.

Trooper is a unit type, and those in the core are:

Trooper: luke/vader/troopers(rebel and storm)

Repulsor vehicle: speeder bikes

Ground vehicle: at-rt

These are located under the art on the unit card.

This doesn't change the way the card works much but in certain situations it will allow you to activate Vader when you need to if you've already used your other cards. It is also an important distinction for cards like force push that means Luke can use it on Vader or vice versa.

Good catch! I've updated that in my notes. I think I made the mistake due to being a 40k player where the 'core choice' in an army is the Troops choice.

5 hours ago, KrisWall said:

Good catch! I've updated that in my notes. I think I made the mistake due to being a 40k player where the 'core choice' in an army is the Troops choice.

Don't be too harsh on yourself though, Troopers and Core (is it Core, or Corps? I've seen both) are functionally the same at the moment. We may see more Core units in future which aren't also Troopers, but it might take a while.