Honestly, I kind of hate myself for doing this, but no matter! I will now self-righteously declare my plans to make aces actually survivable against bombs (because I always lose to bombs (probably because I suck (also, parentheses-ception)) and think arc-dodgers are cool) (someone already probably said this): Ships may spend evades when defending against bombs. What do y'all think?

Sounds good to me. The thing is though the ace then has to survive a TLT attack or 2 after spending the evade token so I don't think it is enough to see even Soontir Fel reclaiming his rightful spot on the table. I guess it is a case of taking an evade instead of a boost or barrel roll to avoid the bomb so you gain another option but still lose your action economy advantage.

4 minutes ago, DaveRob said:

Sounds good to me. The thing is though the ace then has to survive a TLT attack or 2 after spending the evade token so I don't think it is enough to see even Soontir Fel reclaiming his rightful spot on the table. I guess it is a case of taking an evade instead of a boost or barrel roll to avoid the bomb so you gain another option but still lose your action economy advantage.

Bombs are not what is keeping soontir (and other interceptors) off the table, they were always very squishy if you misflew them (bumped and had no tokens) that's not a ton different then miss flying and landing in a bomb area.

What is keeping them off the table at least for me (and this was the case long before bombs) was they do not do enough damage for their points. Soontir kitted up is 35 points for a ship that dies horribly if you make any flying mistakes and generally is only shooting with 3 unmodified red dice (has to save all focus tokens for defense most of the time.) I had moved passed soontir long before all the "counters" were introduced, he is actually pretty good vs tlt can get into range one or make the autothrusters do work fairly easily. However with the plethora of high hp ships soontir just does not do enough damage to justify himself.

I am not against the OP's fix, i don't feel bombs are as overpowered as most so its not a big issue to me, generally speaking that evade token will be spent against an attack anyways so it probably won't reduce much damage overall, what it does do is reward good flying in that if you get out of being targeted by other things then you can freely spend the evade against the bombs and it's not a wasted action.

My opinion is that nerfing genius to not work while ioned is really the idea fix. Means you can build to counter nym with having some ion in your list.

56 minutes ago, Npmartian said:

Honestly, I kind of hate myself for doing this, but no matter! I will now self-righteously declare my plans to make aces actually survivable against bombs (because I always lose to bombs (probably because I suck (also, parentheses-ception)) and think arc-dodgers are cool) (someone already probably said this): Ships may spend evades when defending against bombs. What do y'all think?

You have no evade tokens when an action bomb is dropped on you before you have activated.

I honestly think we just need to live with it and move on. It would be easier to stomach if the two worst bombing offenders didn't also have the most powerful Turret in the game. It means they crush Autothruster Aces with bombs and everyone else with their TLT.

The TLT is more cope-able with - taking Soontir Fel as a - the - much-mourned example; agility 4 with autothrusters tends to point and laugh at twin laser turret shots even without tokens.

Since - as @DodgingArcs points out - a mine will go off either when it's dropped or when you fly through it, you won't have defensive tokens to spend until it's resolved.

Frankly, if you wanted to do something about this, there needs to be a means to resist 'automatic damage' received when not defending. Most of the woes of the TIE interceptor can be laid at the feet of stuff which can be defined as damage received when not defending (as per Captain Jostero's pilot ability trigger); 'splash damage', mines, bombs, feedback arrays, slicer tools, darth vader (crew), etc, etc.

If an upgrade were to exist which would help resist such damage, I suspect Interceptor Aces would happily grab it (especially if it was a modification, as they could stick to autothrusters against 'conventional' attacks and trade in their stealth devices for it).

I think you should be able to use unmodified agility dice to evade bomb hits.

I’d like it as a rule change, but maybe instead make it a modification if that’s too extreme to people

This is not the answer. Ships are dying to bombs that don't have access to evade tokens, and tbh removing an Evade token doesn't stop the bomb dealing damage it just delays the damage until the combat phase when the ship gets attacked and doesn't have an evade token any more.

I'm not sure what the solutions to bombs is. They're mechanically dreadful, both in physical implementation of marking/removing ships to place/remove bomb tokens and in game mechanics of unpreventable damage. The best solution would just be to nerf them back into the stone age so nobody uses them, then take time to come up with some proper bomb rules and reintroduce them.

I don’t know the answer but it keeps things like tie swarms Off the table completely.

Maybe not removing ships until after the round ends could be a start.

Using unmodified green dice to litigate could also be thematic that lets the squished green dice ships miss more.

...but all in all, I have no clue how to fix them. Or even nym (outside of a point change)

Bombs are mechanically awful, but you can't really 'fix' them - not least because they're two distinct rules mechanics and you'd have to find comparable fixes for mines and bombs. There's an additional problem that we know FFG really need to sell us a shiny new Rebel bomber in a few months, so they need bombs to remain relevant for another year or so.

We're not yet at peak influence of bombs on the metagame, remember, more are still to come!

My suite of recommendations:

• Change Bomblet Generator to use the 1 movement template for damage radius, not the 1 range ruler
• Give Genius the /x7 treatment for stress/bumps/asteroids
• Advanced SLAM nerfed to action bar action only
• Sabine Wren additional damage is discard on use

Bombs are supposed to be a counter to unhittable aces.
The problem is when they become a counter to everything because the can be equipped to broken ships.
Few people are complaining about bombing TIE Bombers, Emon Azameen or Decimators. They complain about Nym and Miranda with TLT, bombs and reposition abilities.

Combining bomb and autodamage is even worse.
What if the devs added this general rule to bombs?

To deploy a bomb, place a 1 straight template between your rear guides, then place the bomb token at the other end. Then immediately, assign a weapons disabled token to your ship. You may only drop one bomb per round.

2 minutes ago, Azrapse said:

Few people are complaining about bombing TIE Bombers, Emon Azameen or Decimators.

True, but you're only one badly planned upgrade away from them complaining about those things.

I mean it's chicken and egg... are the very good bombers making bombs a problem because they're very good, or are the bombs making very good bombers a problem?

9 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

True, but you're only one badly planned upgrade away from them complaining about those things.

I mean it's chicken and egg... are the very good bombers making bombs a problem because they're very good, or are the bombs making very good bombers a problem?

Bombs sucked for years. It wasn't until the K-wing, Extra Munitions and Conner Net that they became truly useful.
It wasn't until Sabine that they became broken.
And it wasn't until Nym, Bomblet Generator, and Cad Bane that they became ridiculously broken.

I don't even think Bomblet Generator would be so bad if it wasn't because of the interaction with Genius, Sabine/Cad Bane, Advanced Sensors+TLT or Accuracy Corrector and Autoblaster Turret. With that I don't blame those cards. I blame the ship that allows all of those cards to combo together: Nym.

1 hour ago, Stay On The Leader said:

• Give Genius the /x7 treatment for stress/bumps/asteroids

Maybe I'm going too far, but I think we should be more absolute and errata each "after you execute a manoeuver" card to "after you execute a Successful Manoeuver".
The definition of Successful Manoeuver being a Manoeuver where you have not bumped or gone through a rock.

19 minutes ago, Giledhil said:

Maybe I'm going too far, but I think we should be more absolute and errata each "after you execute a manoeuver" card to "after you execute a Successful Manoeuver".
The definition of Successful Manoeuver being a Manoeuver where you have not bumped or gone through a rock.

I'd need to see the full list of what that affects, I suspect you'll wind up gathering in a whole ton of stuff you don't really want to affect if you cast the net that wide.

I like the "Successful Maneuver" idea for Genius. However, Nym with Boost+BR is really fast so what if:

After you drop a bomblet, you may only plan 1-and-2 speed maneuvers the next planning phase. In lore, the bomblet generator pulled power from the reactors. This would be a way to make it lore feasible and a little less good. Also, make out-of-arc shots with TLT require target locks.

5 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

I'd need to see the full list of what that affects, I suspect you'll wind up gathering in a whole ton of stuff you don't really want to affect if you cast the net that wide.

eg. I am now a sad panda.

4 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

eg. I am now a sad panda.

Ok, maybe not Oicunn. The very point of Oicunn is to never execute a successful maneuver and Daredevil things into oblivion.

12 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

I'd need to see the full list of what that affects, I suspect you'll wind up gathering in a whole ton of stuff you don't really want to affect if you cast the net that wide.

Oicunn of course has to be FAQed out of this.

R2D2 and K4 now need a brain to use. Targeting astro gets hit, but that's not going to make it any more harm than its cost already does.

Lando, no one uses him anyway.

Also Snap Wexley (for rocks), and Fleet officer.

21 minutes ago, Giledhil said:

Oicunn of course has to be FAQed out of this.

R2D2 and K4 now need a brain to use. Targeting astro gets hit, but that's not going to make it any more harm than its cost already does.

Lando, no one uses him anyway.

Also Snap Wexley (for rocks), and Fleet officer.

Yea just make Oicunn's text say "when an opponent activates if they are touching your ship they suffer one damage"

I've suggested that a bomb may not be dropped if the bomb token would overlap any ship. That would help with the issue of having to mark and replace ships all the time. It also makes sense thematically as its not generally safe to use bombs against nearby targets. It's a small nerf but could help.

Nym needs to lose the EPT. Yesterday, if not sooner.

And TLT needs work too.

sorry but... bomblet is really freaking cheap. that's it. for the very same price you can buy thermal detonators, one damage, one use.

58 minutes ago, alien earth said:

sorry but... bomblet is really freaking cheap. that's it. for the very same price you can buy thermal detonators, one damage, one use.

Nym literally got the two of the best, most undercosted cards in the game.

17 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

The TLT is more cope-able with - taking Soontir Fel as a - the - much-mourned example; agility 4 with autothrusters tends to point and laugh at twin laser turret shots even without tokens.

Since - as @DodgingArcs points out - a mine will go off either when it's dropped or when you fly through it, you won't have defensive tokens to spend until it's resolved.

Frankly, if you wanted to do something about this, there needs to be a means to resist 'automatic damage' received when not defending. Most of the woes of the TIE interceptor can be laid at the feet of stuff which can be defined as damage received when not defending (as per Captain Jostero's pilot ability trigger); 'splash damage', mines, bombs, feedback arrays, slicer tools, darth vader (crew), etc, etc.

If an upgrade were to exist which would help resist such damage, I suspect Interceptor Aces would happily grab it (especially if it was a modification, as they could stick to autothrusters against 'conventional' attacks and trade in their stealth devices for it).

So I personally don't think the TLT is fine. It's a double problem.

Take for example Soontir Fel, he is fine against the TLT but terrible against bombs.

Then lets look at Vader, Quickdraw or Defenders. They all have just enough health to be okay versus bombs (not great but okay) but they are all pretty weak to TLT and turrets, especially when there are two or more.

This is actually fine. Having the create lists of combined arms is interesting. It makes the tactical duel as you sacrifice pieces to gain advantage with others fascinating.

The problem is that ships like Nym and Miranda get to have the best to both worlds. They are combined arms in one ship, able to deal with the threat that their other compliments can't deal with. Miranda also gets regen in top of it.

10 hours ago, Stay On The Leader said:

My suite of recommendations:

• Change Bomblet Generator to use the 1 movement template for damage radius, not the 1 range ruler
• Give Genius the /x7 treatment for stress/bumps/asteroids
• Advanced SLAM nerfed to action bar action only
• Sabine Wren additional damage is discard on use

I've stated this elsewhere but I think Bomblet Generator should've been like Rey or Gonk. You start out with maybe one ordnance token on your Bomblet card at the beginning of the game, but you can spend an action each round to place another ordnance token. When you drop a bomblet, you have to spend one ordnance token to do so. This puts a limit on the "infinite bombs" nature of Bomblet Generator but still makes it possible to effectively drop infinite bombs if your opponent isn't paying attention. Nym's out of Bomblets? Now he has to spend actions getting them back, actions he could be using for Advanced Sensors shenanigans or modifying attacks. The current design of Bomblet Generator is just lazy, and it encourages people to be lazy too because they can drop their Bomblets every round with no consequence.

Besides that and the upcoming ASLAM nerf, the only thing that needs to happen is Advanced Sensors needs to go. Nym can be PS10 if he wants, but he should absolutely not be able to equip Advanced Sensors. It's almost pre-nerf Whisper levels of brokenness. Make the Havoc title limit the system upgrade to 2pts or less.

The Havoc title is actually pretty ridiculous if you think about it. For 0 points, you get to exchange one really good upgrade slot for two really good upgrade slots. How is that worth 0 points? If I give you $10 in exchange for $20, why wouldn't I take that deal? If it was a two-for-two trade (say EPT + crew for system + droid) I could maybe understand that, but getting 2-for-1 is nuts. And before anyone brings up freebie cards like x7 or Royal Guard TIE, those titles are obviously fix cards for underperforming ships. They're supposed to seem OP in a vacuum to make those underperforming ships balanced. Havoc, however, came with the Scurrg. I'm still baffled by how good that title is.

10 minutes ago, defkhan1 said:

I've stated this elsewhere but I think Bomblet Generator should've been like Rey or Gonk. You start out with maybe one ordnance token on your Bomblet card at the beginning of the game, but you can spend an action each round to place another ordnance token. When you drop a bomblet, you have to spend one ordnance token to do so. This puts a limit on the "infinite bombs" nature of Bomblet Generator but still makes it possible to effectively drop infinite bombs if your opponent isn't paying attention. Nym's out of Bomblets? Now he has to spend actions getting them back, actions he could be using for Advanced Sensors shenanigans or modifying attacks. The current design of Bomblet Generator is just lazy, and it encourages people to be lazy too because they can drop their Bomblets every round with no consequence.

Besides that and the upcoming ASLAM nerf, the only thing that needs to happen is Advanced Sensors needs to go. Nym can be PS10 if he wants, but he should absolutely not be able to equip Advanced Sensors. It's almost pre-nerf Whisper levels of brokenness. Make the Havoc title limit the system upgrade to 2pts or less.

The Havoc title is actually pretty ridiculous if you think about it. For 0 points, you get to exchange one really good upgrade slot for two really good upgrade slots. How is that worth 0 points? If I give you $10 in exchange for $20, why wouldn't I take that deal? If it was a two-for-two trade (say EPT + crew for system + droid) I could maybe understand that, but getting 2-for-1 is nuts. And before anyone brings up freebie cards like x7 or Royal Guard TIE, those titles are obviously fix cards for underperforming ships. They're supposed to seem OP in a vacuum to make those underperforming ships balanced. Havoc, however, came with the Scurrg. I'm still baffled by how good that title is.

And it doesn't even limit the use of Sabine, because Miri with Clusters and Conner Net, TLT, Extras, and Sabine is the perfect wingmate.