Why did the X-Wing die?

I am a relatively new player (last Christmas) and got the original starter pack.

The players in my town say that the X-Wing "died". I s this true? And if so, why?

9 minutes ago, Darth Drago said:

Why did the X-Wing die?

I am a relatively new player (last Christmas) and got the original starter pack.

The players in my town say that the X-Wing "died". I s this true? And if so, why?

It mainly boils down to lack of options. They don't have a reposition option (boost or barrel roll), they don't have a generic EPT and they are just outclassed by most other ships in the game.

That being said, I have seen some people do well with 4 generic Red Squadron X-Wings. (Meaning watched on youtube.)

For casual play and games above 100 points X-Wings are just fine.

News of its death in a casual setting has been greatly exaggerated.

Try fitting one of the following in with a list you like and enjoy the game

Luke Skywalker:

1. Predator
2. R2D2
3. Vectored Thrusters

Wedge

1. PTL
2. BB8
3. Engine Upgrade

I like the following combos:

Han / Chewie / Rey / Luke

This wont Die immediately. And is oddly "ok" in today's meta.

Are they better than Poe Dameron in a T-70 with BB8 or R2D2, PTL, Autothrusters, Black One, Primed Thrusters.......no.

Are they perfectly fun to fly against a ton of lists. Yes.

If both of those options dont look appealing and you really want to use Wedge or Luke put Biggs next to them and double their health

Biggs is the only T-65 relevant at the Tournament level but for a casual night T-65s absolutely can be put on the table and enjoyed even against near tournament quality stuff.

As the game grew and changed, the dial and stats of the t-65 didn't really hold yup. For it's price (Rookie Pilot: 21 points) the dial, hull/shields, and agility aren't worth it. If it had more available upgrade options (tech, etc.) then players might be able to generate some fixes for it.

I mean, I still fly it. Because it's an x-wing. You just have to go in knowing that it's not really an optimal choice.

OK!

I might try one of those lists (I'm normally an Imperial player, so I also might not )

I've heard some talk about S-Foils coming out. Is there any truth to that? Would it drastically change the X-Wing?

Just now, Darth Drago said:

OK!

I might try one of those lists (I'm normally an Imperial player, so I also might not )

I've heard some talk about S-Foils coming out. Is there any truth to that? Would it drastically change the X-Wing?

Your guess is as good as mine. I hope it does. (I really like the 2-sided card concept.)

I fly a lot of T-65s myself, both in casual and tournaments. Ok, so when I do take various X-Wing pilots to tournaments I don't exactly win the event, but I do ok. The only thing I really hate to see across from me is TLT when flying an X-Wing.

• The dial is simple and there's no repositioning, but if you plan ahead a few turns that's fine.
• The dial is pretty average, nothing special or super for turning around. These days, that's bad.
• A 3 red attack is still pretty good.
• It lacks action economy, that's bad.
• It has enough survivability against most attacks to survive a round of fire, which is good!
• The plastic is pretty toxic when eaten... That's bad, by the way.

By the by - no facts in the s-foils thought line. Just a lot of speculation. Who knows what FFG has planned for the classic fighter.

59 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

The plastic is pretty toxic when eaten... That's bad, by the way.

Is this from experience?

It has always been on the weaker side. The TIE Fighter outclassed it wave one and it has only gotten worse since, as the rebellion gained stronger options.

It’s not top table but it’s not bad either. I flew Wes Wedge Hobbie to some success last year, I’m finding Luke with M9G8 and Lone Wolf is very difficult to kill unless your opponent has a lot of Dice to throw...

I go by the Rule of Cool - X-Wings are cool so you should absolutely fly them, but you’ll soon see where their weaknesses lie.

Also, the T-70 X-wing (the 'Force Awakens' one) - it has a slightly better dial, boost, and an extra shield for only 3 points more (meaning you can still fit 4 in a squad), meaning it does everything the original X-wing did but a bit better.

If you want to make X-wings work, you need to use their (impressive) pilot abilities. Biggs is the only one who sees a lot of table time, but Wedge, Luke, Wes and co are all really good.

For that matter, Hobbie and Tarn Mison are surprisingly good. I've even seen Jek Porkins do some good work in a sort-of-triple-regen-but-not-really list with R5-D4.

23 minutes ago, Darth Drago said:

Is this from experience?

I read a lot of science papers. I'm of course taking their word for it.

4 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

For that matter, Hobbie and Tarn Mison are surprisingly good. I've even seen Jek Porkins do some good work in a sort-of-triple-regen-but-not-really list with R5-D4.

I took Hobbie and Tarn in my list to the top table in an original trilogy format. I like both of them. Tarn can be a serious pain for your opponent. Pretty much all the T-65 pilots have great abilities, but it's tricky to fit them into a list that works!

Thinking about trying this out:

Luke Skywalker (38) X-Wing (28), R2-D2 (4), Expertise (4), Vectored Thrusters (2)

Horton Salm (34) Y-Wing (25), R2 Astromech (1), Twin Laser Turret (6), Vectored Thrusters (2)

Tycho Celchu (28) A-Wing (26), A-Wing Test Pilot (0), Chardaan Refit (-2), Rage (1), Push the Limit (3)

Lots of re-position, lots of dice mods.

And here's a 3x t-65 list for your consideration:

Luke Skywalker [R2-D2, Expertise, Vectored Thrusters] (38)

Biggs Darklighter [R5-D8, Integrated Astromech] (28)

Wes Janson [M9-G8, Expert Handling, Integrated Astromech] (34)

3 hours ago, Darth Drago said:

The players in my town say that the X-Wing "died". Is this true? And if so, why?

I've been flying four-ship rebel builds for about a year, and almost every time I try to squeeze a rookie t65s or red Sqdrn in a slot they are my weak point.

After the T70 came out with the "Integrated Astromech" mod, it's basically stapled to any generic t65 unless you're using them as suicide alpha-ordinace carriers. This is because with only 3 hull/2 shields, the generic pilots get "p.s. killed" (destroyed before getting to shoot) more often than is comfortable for a ship costing at least 21 points.

Needing the I.A. mod to survive means they can't also have vectored thrusters or engine upgrade for some repositioning actions, which is pretty critical for a small fighter.

To reiterate the other guys, there are also no generic pilots with an EPT slot, which is pretty standard in newer releases... So simply another elements that limits their flexibility and adaptability in the fairly diversified modern squads.

T65s are still really fun, and Luke is one of the best budget Rebel aces.

Rogue Squadron Rebel Veterans expansion, here we come....

10 minutes ago, Bucknife said:

Rogue Squadron Rebel Veterans expansion, here we come....

Concepts-----

Includes 1 T65 repaint and 1 Y-wing repaint.

New Rogue Squadron Xwing and Ywing generics with EPTs!! Please!

"Rogue Squadron Retrofit" -torpedo slot. Rebel only. Y-wing and B-wing only.

"Your upgrade bar gains 1 "system" upgrade slot."

-----include new 1 point system upgrade card, useable by Y-wings and B-wings only, that is basically "Autothrusters".

"Rogue Squadron Retrofit" - title

X-WING ONLY

Cost 2 points
Your action bar gains the Barrel Roll action icon.
After you execute a 2 bank maneuver, if you are not stressed, you may rotate your ship 180 degrees, then, receive 1 stress token.

X wing title needs a point reduction and then add a mod slot and give a torpedo and astromech discount.

1.) X wing and B wing are similar points cost, but the X wing should never beat a B-wing in a joust, so any buff to its alpha potential or overall damage output would place B's in a comparatively worse place than they already are. Also the X-wing shouldn't just be a little more maneuverable than a B-wing (as they are now) but actually a lot more maneuverable.

2.) Also, You can't give them extra HP because then you have a problem with Biggs. IMO Increasing maneuverability won't really make Bigs better because you want him to be shot at anyway and the best way to do that is fly in formation not do arc dodging barrel roll shenanigans

3.) But a maneuverability fix could make both generics (increased ability to block) and Aces better (increased arc dodge), not just one or the other.

4.) This is could also be a good way to better differentiate T-70 from T-65. T-70's have become more powerful and technologically advanced, as reflected by their increased speed on dials, increased greens, and boosts. But while the T-65 might have less power (less greens/no boost/ etc) going slower actually would have advantages too; I.E. increased ability to make tighter turns, more time for the pilot to react to obstacles in your flight path, etc. So for all of these reasons; a fix should be something like:

Title T-65, points 0

Add a barrel roll action to your action bar, AND/OR

When you reveal a 1 bank maneuver you may instead perform the corresponding hard 1left / hard 1right maneuvers AND/OR

After you perform (or when you reveal) a speed 1 maneuver you may perform a free barrel roll AND/OR

If you would land on an obstacle you may discard this card to ignore the effects of the obstacle and you may perform a free barrel roll action.

9 hours ago, Darth Drago said:

Why did the X-Wing die?

I am a relatively new player (last Christmas) and got the original starter pack.

The players in my town say that the X-Wing "died". I s this true? And if so, why?

Has it Died? No, but outside of casual play they are usually not flown by the meta competitive players Biggs being the exception.

The X-wing is suffering from a few different items that have been fairly well covered so far. Age actually being the biggest thing.

Biggs: It's been stated somewhere that there are concerns about "Fixing" the T-65 because any fix is also going to improve Biggs. The biggest fear being an upgraded Biggs along with Newer Astromechs and upgrades and Wingmen could create a bigger unbalance. Such as Lowhherick.

To many similar ships in it's job/weight class. There are far too many and honestly better option ships that have similar stats, better dials, and in many cases better options than the first starfighters in the game. The T-70 sadly may have sealed the T-65's fate. Faster more maneuverable, and minimal point increase and some outstanding Pilots.

Game design: oddly enough the X-wing isn't the measuring stick of the game. That honor goes to the TIE L/N. which is partly why Swarms are still prevalent in the Tournament scenes much more than Rebel X-Wing Aces. So as better TIEs came about the disparity has only grown for the X-wing.

So so dead by all means no. Just not the ship everyone would hope it to be for a game with its name attached to it.

X-Wings also take a lot of practice to fly well. They don't like being stressed (lack of greens to clear it, plus lack of focus tokens for defence leads to dying), but not k-turning leads to being out of the fight for too long turning around. Lack of boost removes that option to assist in tight turns, so anything with 1 turns or boost can turn tighter, meaning no shot from your X-Wing. It's why Garven Dreis is weaker than he looks.

However, they can be very useful. I took Airen Cracken, Wedge, and Nym to 2nd place at a store champs using torpedoes to alpha-strike opponents. All PS10; deleted 2 Nyms, and an Upsilon in the first round of shooting and a Chiraneau who boosted into range 1 to avoid the torps almost died just from the normal guns. It was also fun to PS-kill Fenn Rau after the torps had removed Nym .

Currently, I fly Jek Porkins, Dutch Vander & Hobbie Klivian with torpedoes. They are a lot of fun, I win almost 50% of my tournament games and enjoy the game far more trying to make these pilots work! Porkins is the weakest link because he's 26pts of usefulness that costs 36! I should drop him for a better pilot - Wedge could be used instead, for example - but the whole point of the list is to use a rubbish pilot (Porkins is never the correct X-Wing to fly because Wedge, Luke & Wes are so much better for the same points, and Tarn and Hobbie are so much cheaper whilst being more effective). Hobbie with Targeting Astromech has a better-than-green k-turn, which surprises people with his positioning and damage output; Dutch uses his ion turret to really annoy small ships with low agility; and Porkins dies quickly, but sometimes gets to k-turn with impunity before he's blown up.

In a while, I will be flying Fel's Wrath - just to see people's faces when I place him on the table!

I would loooooove to see an X wing "fix" in the shape of a rogue squadron aces pack. I would love to see multiple options for the "rebellion's most effective military vehicle". I mean any chance we can make it have some versatility? Give it multiple title options to mix it up. FFG did it for the defender, so why not the game's namesake?

I don't think it is necessarily dead, but it sure as **** needs some resuscitation, because the generic pilots (and some named) has fallen into a state of unconsciousness.

On 9/28/2017 at 10:32 AM, Darth Drago said:

Is this from experience?

Well, he's posting... so probably not.

11 minutes ago, cybercat07 said:

I would loooooove to see an X wing "fix" in the shape of a rogue squadron aces pack. I would love to see multiple options for the "rebellion's most effective military vehicle". I mean any chance we can make it have some versatility? Give it multiple title options to mix it up. FFG did it for the defender, so why not the game's namesake?

I don't think it is necessarily dead, but it sure as **** needs some resuscitation, because the generic pilots (and some named) has fallen into a state of unconsciousness.

I would like to see a mod or title that essentially gives the T-65 what the T-70 has. It can even keep the 2 shield value. I just want to be able to use Wedge and the other T-65 pilots as I would a T-70 pilot.

The only 'quick fix' I'd like to see is being able to equip both Integrated Astromech and Guidance Chips.

A bigger, long-term fix really needs lots of ships and upgrades being rebalanced or recosted so that's a lot harder to do. Making a title like Vaksai would probably work, but might actually make them too powerful because they are quite a lot better than the Kihraxz due to the astromech and pilot combos.

I'd love to see something like:

Alliance Training: (x wing only) Title; 3 points

You may not take this upgrade if you have a boost in your action bar

When you reveal a bank maneuver, you may instead treat it as a white talon roll of the same bearing and direction.

In many ways, the only real fix the X-Wing needs is to be cheaper. Theorist's Vassal Tournaments organized at Team Covenant have had reduced X-Wing costs, and the ship has been competitive. I think that's probably the right direction to go in. There are all sorts of movement tricks or other gimmicky things which could be tried, but if they were just cheaper and more cost-effective, there would be a clear role for them as a heavy swarm ship, and it wouldn't step on the toes of other newer Rebel ships (except B-Wings, but that's another discussion, depending on what the GUNBOAT brings them).

I'd like a title (with whatever overhead needs to be in place to rule out T-70 X-Wings) which [1] either reduces the cost of the ship or an equipped torpedo by 2 or 3 points [2] allows multiple (two? three?) modifications with a combined cost less than 4. I love the thought of cheaper Torpedoes on an X-Wing for movie thematic reasons, but a flat ship cost reduction would be better.