We ran into a subtle situation during a match:

-Magna guard receives 8 damage, is defeated, but before is defeated, he is defeated at the end of the round...

We are now facing 2 questions, and we had some answers, but I wanted to share toughts:

-What kind of "defeated" magna guard does to himself? Is it: (A) still defeated by damage (B) Or card text defeated

-Because if it is (A), he turn himself into an infinite loop at the end of turn. (Attrition, Aftermath...)

-There is actually no definition of "end of turn", what happens at the end of turn and in what order. I think "end of turn" must be clarified or there will be eventually some timing issue.

We came to conclusion it's (B), because damage defeat him constantly (He still has 8 damage on him, so basically the before trigger constantly, wich in itself is a problem eventually). But at the end of turn, his text kills himself (Not damage).

Chak

to my knowledge defeated has nothing to do with damage, suffering damage equal to your hp value causes you to become defeated, defeated being a state, so magma guard if you would become defeated due to damage condition would interrupt to delay it to end of the round which happens when both players have passed.

MagnaGuard schedules himself to be defeated via his card text (not damage) after the round ends. Once his text triggers, the damage doesn't matter. Even if you healed him, he will be defeated, and his text won't trigger on that defeat.

tl;dr Option B.

Just to jump on this topic, can the magnaguard suffer 8 damage, be defeated at the end of the round, but have "the price of failure" played on him before the end of the round, thus defeating him early/twice? I think so, because he hasn't been defeated yet but it still seems strange.

Yes that is legal to price him, cause even if he has 100 damage on him he's still on the table and a valid target for price of failure

That is a good question, Can a defeated character be defeated again if he already is considered to be defeated? We don't have an official answer for that. Certainly he can guardian and Best Defense away damage and still hold at 8 damage but can a defeated character be defeated a second time to pay for the Price of Failure. Probably going to the FAQ.

1 hour ago, Mep said:

That is a good question, Can a defeated character be defeated again if he already is considered to be defeated? We don't have an official answer for that. Certainly he can guardian and Best Defense away damage and still hold at 8 damage but can a defeated character be defeated a second time to pay for the Price of Failure. Probably going to the FAQ.

Obi-Wan can Noble Sacrifice himself (heck, that's essentially the 'proper' play), so yes.

1 hour ago, Mep said:

That is a good question, Can a defeated character be defeated again if he already is considered to be defeated? We don't have an official answer for that. Certainly he can guardian and Best Defense away damage and still hold at 8 damage but can a defeated character be defeated a second time to pay for the Price of Failure. Probably going to the FAQ.

Technically, no. And that's your warning that I'm about to get really technical. :-)

You cannot defeat a defeated character. But you are also not trying to defeat a defeated character. It's easy to think of MagnaGuard as merely delaying his defeat, but that's not technically what happens. Technically, he outright prevents his defeat, and schedules another, separate defeat at a later point in time. So when you use Price of Failure on a MagnaGuard who has suffered lethal damage earlier in the round, you are defeating a character who is not currently defeated, but who would be defeated at a later point. It's the same situation as if you used The Price of Failure on a character who had been targeted by Crime Lord.

Using Noble Sacrifice on Obi-Wan using his own ability is a similar situation. Since Noble Sacrifice occurs "before" he is defeated, you are defeating a character who is not yet defeated - albeit for only a matter of moments.

Okay, reading the actual card (which is always helpful), it is only for damage and there is a Before trigger, so he his damage defeat is placed at end of round. So yeah, you can sac him with a card but his ability only works on damage so he would get defeated on the action the card is played.

Mace can defeat him with his action also.

An instance came up where my Magnaguard had (6) damage and was dealt (2) more to bring his damage total on him to (8), which would have defeated him at the end of the round. I had equipped an Ancient Lightsaber previously on him, so could I use its action to heal (2) of the damage off, put the Ancient Lightsaber at the bottom of my deck, and my Magnaguard would still be alive at the end of the round because it now was sitting at (6) health by the time the end of round came up?

Just wondering. I didn't play that option though because I didn't know if it was valid or not. Instead I played "The Price of Failure" to really kill him so I could ready my loaded up "Seventh Sister" again using the ID-9 trick.

No amount of healing will remove the event "Defeat at the end of the round" that has already been triggered.

Ok, makes sense. I ended up bringing him back to life the following round by cashing in my Endless Ranks. You could hear my opponents jaw hit the top of the table.

You can use the Ancient Lightsaber's action to bring the MagnaGuard down to 6 damage. It just won't stop the fact that MagnaGuard has scheduled himself to be defeated at the end of the round. Taking this action would still have benefits, though. It would put Ancient Lightsaber in the deck instead of the discard pile, and it would allow you to assign up to 2 damage to MagnaGuard (such as from Planetary Uprising).

Yeah if i had the ancient lightsaber on a magna guard that was defeated i'd action it off even if the heal doesnt keep him alive.

2 hours ago, GooeyChewie said:

You can use the Ancient Lightsaber's action to bring the MagnaGuard down to 6 damage. It just won't stop the fact that MagnaGuard has scheduled himself to be defeated at the end of the round. Taking this action would still have benefits, though. It would put Ancient Lightsaber in the deck instead of the discard pile, and it would allow you to assign up to 2 damage to MagnaGuard (such as from Planetary Uprising).

Humm... i'm pretty sure magna guard can be assigned the 2 damage from planetary uprising even at 8 damage. Because usually it doesnt work with other character since they die instantly.

Hummm... unless i'm missing something like i don't want to look throught rules tonight,

Chak

According to page 16 of the rules reference says...

8 hours ago, GooeyChewie said:

According to page 16 of the rules reference says...

• When a player distributes damage “as they wish,” players cannot deal excess damage (damage above their health) to their characters.

Thanks!

Chak