A discussion arose in our game group last night concerning Endless Plains. Can it activate the conflict it's revealed, or does the player have to save the province and get the opponent to attack there again in order to use it? The former would make the card absolutely fantastic, while the latter would make it pretty much useless.

It's the former.

It can activate in the conflict that reveals it, because the province is revealed once the conflict declaration is complete (type, element and attackers). However, it's still pretty much useless, because:

1. The opponent chooses which attacking character to discard, so it is only useful if there is a single powerful attacker.
2. The opponent is considered to have broken the province and gets to trigger all relevant reactions.

1 hour ago, Khudzlin said:

It can activate in the conflict that reveals it, because the province is revealed once the conflict declaration is complete (type, element and attackers). However, it's still pretty much useless, because:

1. The opponent chooses which attacking character to discard, so it is only useful if there is a single powerful attacker with fate on them.
2. The opponent is considered to have broken the province and gets to trigger all relevant reactions.

Corrected that for you.

3 minutes ago, Yogo Gohei said:

Corrected that for you.

Well, a way to ready or not bow at resolution could do in a pinch.

If there is only one attacker, can't this make the ring go unclaimed (or claimed by defender, if any) if the attacker can't get his strength back up? That's not useless, I think? Or is there anything I miss?

16 minutes ago, Shinjo Tegi said:

If there is only one attacker, can't this make the ring go unclaimed (or claimed by defender, if any) if the attacker can't get his strength back up? That's not useless, I think? Or is there anything I miss?

You're correct. If the attacking player cannot move another character to the conflict (so far, having a participating character is a requirement for winning a battle - without one, your total skill is 0), they won't be able to claim the ring. I'm not sure it is very useful to sacrifice a province for that, though.

That, and forcing opponent to always attack Unicorn with either disposable characters only or with bodyguards. Never just sniping a province during a political conflict with e.g. just Shoju.

I'm not ecstatic about it, but it does make the opponent play somewhat around it. That alone is worth something!

1 hour ago, Shinjo Tegi said:

That, and forcing opponent to always attack Unicorn with either disposable characters only or with bodyguards. Never just sniping a province during a political conflict with e.g. just Shoju.

I'm not ecstatic about it, but it does make the opponent play somewhat around it. That alone is worth something!

Like so many other cards in the game, I think this is its main point. It's not that you're always going to use the card for great effect; it's that the potential for devastating effect exists, and forces your opponent to play around it (in this case, the possibility of that card popping up means they'll likely be forced to send a chump along to sacrifice whenever attacking Unicorn blind, instead of just a single, powerful unit. It may not make much difference to that particular attack, but needing to commit two units when one would have had the strength alone means they may not be able to make a second attack later that phase or defend against your attacks.

In other words, what a card threatens to do can be every bit as potent as what a card actually does, in some cases.

And endless plains is particularly strong when it's not in your deck.

If it's in your deck, after all, they can stop playing around it after it is broken.

If it's not (and they don't see another province of same element), they'll forever be forced to play around (or into) it

20 minutes ago, Shinjo Tegi said:

And endless plains is particularly strong when it's not in your deck.

If it's in your deck, after all, they can stop playing around it after it is broken.

If it's not (and they don't see another province of same element), they'll forever be forced to play around (or into) it

A very good reason to run Rally to the Cause under your stronghold.

26 minutes ago, Shinjo Tegi said:

And endless plains is particularly strong when it's not in your deck.

If it's in your deck, after all, they can stop playing around it after it is broken.

If it's not (and they don't see another province of same element), they'll forever be forced to play around (or into) it

Especially if your role allows you two of its element, and you only play with one...

26 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

Especially if your role allows you two of its element, and you only play with one...

Not currently in Unicorn, since the official role is Keeper of Fire, not Seeker of Water.

3 minutes ago, Khudzlin said:

Not currently in Unicorn, since the official role is Keeper of Fire, not Seeker of Water.

Speaking of which, where can we find the official roles for each clan? So far, I've just been trying out each clan with the "suggested deck" pdf, but apparently that's no longer correct?

(Not that it matters too much for us. Our group is pretty casual, so no two players with the same clan are using the same role, that I know of.)

2 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

Speaking of which, where can we find the official roles for each clan? So far, I've just been trying out each clan with the "suggested deck" pdf, but apparently that's no longer correct?

(Not that it matters too much for us. Our group is pretty casual, so no two players with the same clan are using the same role, that I know of.)

Here's the official page: https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/op/l5r-lcg/roles/

1 minute ago, Khudzlin said:

Here's the official page: https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/op/l5r-lcg/roles/

Thanks!

Honestly, I'm a bit torn on the roles so far. On the one hand, I like the intention, and it would certainly be interesting to stick to the official roles even in casual play. On the other hand, it seems like a bit of a hassle to have to keep up with when role-changing events are just to stay current.

29 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

Thanks!

Honestly, I'm a bit torn on the roles so far. On the one hand, I like the intention, and it would certainly be interesting to stick to the official roles even in casual play. On the other hand, it seems like a bit of a hassle to have to keep up with when role-changing events are just to stay current.

Well, going forward roles will only change once a year at Worlds... so shouldn't be too hard to keep track after November.

2 minutes ago, Zesu Shadaban said:

Well, going forward roles will only change once a year at Worlds... so shouldn't be too hard to keep track after November.

Perhaps, but I just don't know how long it'll stay that way. Considering most clans will have experienced three different roles by the time the game's a month old, will people be content to stick with the same role for a year while the card pool changes?

I anticipate maybe one year before we start having mid-year role changes.

On 9/27/2017 at 0:41 PM, JJ48 said:

Perhaps, but I just don't know how long it'll stay that way. Considering most clans will have experienced three different roles by the time the game's a month old, will people be content to stick with the same role for a year while the card pool changes?

I anticipate maybe one year before we start having mid-year role changes.

Each clan will have had 2 roles. 1 was picked at Gencon, and 1 will be picked at worlds. The ones in the book are suggestions, but players are free to pick any of them.

Why do you think they will go to twice a year for roles? Picking the role is a pretty big deal. They'd have to run a second event on the scale of the world championship to do that.

Besides, you don't have to play with roles at all. If your deck is legal with no role, then it's legal for any role.

Also, you don't have to break endless plains. Instead, you can try to defend it as normal. Then, if it turns out that your opponent has you beat after playing conflict cards, spend your last action to break it and send a character to the discard pile. In this case, you would have lost the plain anyway, so might as well make your opponent pay the extra cost!

2 hours ago, Moes1980 said:

Also, you don't have to break endless plains. Instead, you can try to defend it as normal. Then, if it turns out that your opponent has you beat after playing conflict cards, spend your last action to break it and send a character to the discard pile. In this case, you would have lost the plain anyway, so might as well make your opponent pay the extra cost!

No, because its ability is a reaction to the conflict being declared at the province. If it isn't played at that point, you can't trigger it later in the conflict.

1 hour ago, Zesu Shadaban said:

No, because its ability is a reaction to the conflict being declared at the province. If it isn't played at that point, you can't trigger it later in the conflict.

Oh, I didn't realize that, thanks!

I think endless plains and restoration of balance are underestimated..

As some said here, is not about the incredible effects, is about what your opponent have to do playing around this cards.

When you are playing against Unicorn you are forced to attack with 2 chars, cause you don't wanna loose your big guy, and if you send a small one it can be defeated or dead by assassination. We have to remember that the main way to win the game is breaking provinces, and against unicorn you know you are facing a rush deck, if you waste a attack scouting sometimes this will cost you the game, I've seen a couple of games unicorn winning in turn 2. At the same time, when you are forced to move at least 2 guys to the conflict in the first turns you are opening your defenses, thats the synergy between this card and the unicorn deck, and for this I think uni really need a Seeker role to speed up.

The same occurs with Dragon. The question is when you face a Dragon you know the risks bidding 4-5 in the first turn cause in theory you have 1/4 chances hitting restoration of balance, I tested bidding 1 first turn to put a dishonor pressure, but most times it didn't work. Now, the dragon player can bid 4-5 and gain a great advantage to win a crucial conflict (void ring) and if you loose a province and let a dragon keep a big guy with fate and attachs on turn 1, you know you are just a step away from defeat. Card advantage in turn one is great.

14 minutes ago, L5RBr said:

I think endless plains and restoration of balance are underestimated..

As some said here, is not about the incredible effects, is about what your opponent have to do playing around this cards.

When you are playing against Unicorn you are forced to attack with 2 chars.............

IMO, both EP and RoB are properly estimated. Just their existance forces people to play around them.......you don't need to run them to get that benefit. I don't have to run EP when playing Unicorn because my opponent has no idea until it, or another water province, is revealed.

23 minutes ago, Ishi Tonu said:

IMO, both EP and RoB are properly estimated. Just their existance forces people to play around them.......you don't need to run them to get that benefit. I don't have to run EP when playing Unicorn because my opponent has no idea until it, or another water province, is revealed.

Yes but thats the interesting part of it. If you are playing in a tournament you can presume your opponent don't run these cards (especially endless plains) cause most players don't seem to like it, and anyway, is a 1/4 chance. Thats when the card became good, sometimes players will take that risk, and who run these provinces will gain a great advantage.