Isn't every table by default creating non-canon/alternative history when they play?.......

The idea is wether or not the story COULD be a part of Canon/Legends without contradicting. But very good point.

5 minutes ago, korjik said:

Then you called it 'the wrong kind of science fiction.' That is what she was referring to. I have to agree with her sentiment, considering my Star Wars becomes more divergent every time I run a new game.

Stripping away context is no way to communicate. Neither is expecting me to re-iterate the context with every sentence.

2 minutes ago, 2P51 said:

Isn't every table by default creating non-canon/alternative history when they play?.......

There is a difference between having adventures that arent part of canon and having adventures that change canon outright

Just now, Stan Fresh said:

Stripping away context is no way to communicate.

So dont do it. You said you didnt like it, then you said it was wrong. You did say both tho

Just now, korjik said:

So dont do it. You said you didnt like it, then you said it was wrong. You did say both tho

Are you for real? Stating your own preferences is now somehow an affront to someone's sensibilities? What do you do when someone doesn't like the same music you do, have a crying jag?

2 minutes ago, korjik said:

There is a difference between having adventures that arent part of canon and having adventures that change canon outright

Not by default imo, both are just people playing the game. Judging how one table or another does that seems like a fruitless expenditure of calories.

I have a friend across the pond who's a huge D&D fan, even moreso than me, and I'm essentially wedded to the game in the way a nun is married to god.

Anyways, he says that every time he plays or GMs a D&D game, he gives mental thanks to E Gary Gygax for creating the game... while simultaneously acknowledging that he would have absolutely hated playing the game at Gary's table.

TL, DR: RPGs are a broad church. If you want to play D&D with or without Elminster or Drizzt, you are free to do so, and different people want different things.

2 hours ago, Stan Fresh said:

The bottom is far bigger than 5% in Legends.

I think he forgot a "9", as in "95%"

1 hour ago, Stan Fresh said:

Alternate universes just don't feel right in Star Wars, to me. That's the wrong kind of science fiction.

Or the aliens are the refuge of the lazy. Just play the race instead of coming up with an actual character.

6 minutes ago, Stan Fresh said:

Are you for real? Stating your own preferences is now somehow an affront to someone's sensibilities? What do you do when someone doesn't like the same music you do, have a crying jag?

First part is stating a preference. Second lined out part is judging someone else's approach. See, you communicate your preference without pooping on someone else's. It's really not hard.

Considering my players have done things like giving Saruman the One Ring, used Mount Snowdon (largest mountain in Wales) as a slingshot pebble to sink Richard II's fleet along with the whole Plantagenet dinasty (Ars Magica), killed Luke and Aragorn (it was an accident!), handed Fidel Castro to the CIA, and blundered so massively that Yavin was a total imperial victory, changing canon is something I am somewhat used to.

Most of those were supposed to be low key campaigns. yeah, right.

18 minutes ago, 2P51 said:

First part is stating a preference. Second lined out part is judging someone else's approach.

No, the second part is judging the kind of science fiction which I feel is appropriate for Star Wars.

You know, the context I created with my first sentence.

Context - it's really not hard.

So we have now entered debate 4.

Nonhumans vs. humans

Are Mandalorians a religion?

Canon vs. Legends

Changing canon in games

21 minutes ago, whafrog said:

I think he forgot a "9", as in "95%"

I dunno about that. I enjoyed a lot of it, and some of it I would even call genuinely good fiction. The Episode 3 novelization, of all things, is actually a **** good book; who'd have thought?

1 minute ago, Stan Fresh said:

I dunno about that. I enjoyed a lot of it, and some of it I would even call genuinely good fiction. The Episode 3 novelization, of all things, is actually a **** good book; who'd have thought?

I couldn't stand it thanks to all of the contradictions.

And I had hopes for it, too, since Episode III is my favorite of the saga.

On 9/26/2017 at 10:51 AM, Maelora said:

However, I'm lucky to have a great group and they know they have to put some effort into being 'girly' and not play some exaggerated parody character. I actually give lessons in that, and the gal players help the guys out too.

Ages and ages and ages ago, back when Dinosaurs roamed the earth, I played my first other gender (Flipped gender? Not-my-gender? Character without a dong? What do we call cross-playing?) and I was firmly informed by the women in the group that I sucked playing a female. So yeah, out of the gate it took some doing to get right. As I haven't heard any complaints in a while, I think I've managed to hit the zone - or at least stopped playing a man with boobs. But really, I just build the character as a character and let the gender sort itself out.

Why do I cross-play? Really, it's all up to my perception of the character. Sometimes the character just fits one gender or another, feeling more right as a man or a woman - my Twlek Engineer seemed to fit best as a tomboy, the former separatist nightclub bouncer that I'll play in the next game seems to be wanting to be a man, my ancient Celtic personification of winter that I played in my superhero game pretty much demanded to be a goddess - and so it goes. But no, there's no ulterior motive or sexual agenda other than the demands of the character.

(Geeze, the forum software censor really makes my posts sound WAY more filthy than they actually were!)

Just now, Yaccarus said:

I couldn't stand it thanks to all of the contradictions.

You mean the changes from the movie? Or internal contradictions?

Just now, Stan Fresh said:

You mean the changes from the movie? Or internal contradictions?

Changes to the movie.

19 minutes ago, Yaccarus said:

So we have now entered debate 4.

Nonhumans vs. humans

Are Mandalorians a religion?

Canon vs. Legends

Changing canon in games

If we can get people comparing the Empire to the Imperium in the 40K universe it will be the most elaborate thread derail in history/

15 minutes ago, Vorzakk said:

If we can get people comparing the Empire to the Imperium in the 40K universe it will be the most elaborate thread derail in history/

(Um, the MarcyVerse 'Empire' faction is literally called the 'Imperium of Man'...! That wasn't my choice. Honest. )

Most elaborate thread derail? Nah, not even close. And I used to pride myself on my ability to go off at a tangent.

Back in the early days of the Beta Forums for FFG's SW game, we had an Erik B thread (don't ask) which we ('we' meaning 'Desslok') gloriously derailed into a super-thread that quite literally took on a life of it's own. I think it hit 50+ pages by the time the mods closed it down.

Kids, you don't know what you missed.

The MarcyVerse: Legends Edition.

14 minutes ago, Maelora said:

Kids, you don't know what you missed.

Yeah, those were some good, good times. . . .

3 hours ago, HappyDaze said:

While the OP makes a point that it's sometimes hard to accept non-humans as main characters, i have to wonder about the possibility that humans are the first choice of lazy/bad roleplayers. Sure, its easy to think that stereotyped aliens will be a sign of a bad roleplayer, but "being a human playing a human like a human" is really the ultimate in creative slacking, right?

Lol! Yeah that's true, which is why the creative slackers play aliens instead because it muddies the water, makes you feel like you are doing better than you are. If the breakdowns I have seen so far are indicative of the incidence of human characters they make up like 3% of the characters played (exempting Marcy because she discourages non-humans). I think bad is bad, and there isn't any medicine for that if the player is having fun or if it's all good like in Tom Cruise's post. But Aliens and Droids are the go to characters for people who don't want to explore characterization or get into deep play. Being a Human, Playing a Human like a Human simply zeroes the equation, and allows for any of the myriad things that non sci fi/fantasy creators have to work with in making interesting characters. There is no shortage of human intrigues, dramas, personalities, and any other thing of that sort to choose from.

It's probably a matter of time spent in character, with that character doing something that takes up narrative time in the game. If you have a game that is right out of the FFG printed modules, you are being kept busy a lot in the game. So figure of that small RP time for your average game the aliens have to get in their quirks (addicted to salt, wanting to **** twi'leks when you have a slug body, not understanding emotions, trying to eat another party member because you are basically a monster with a blaster) while the Humans are usually communicating, dealing with background hooks and responses, or developing story. Because they are human they don't need to spend table time talking about their engorged sensory glands, or their inability to understand why humans don't murder a 3rd of their children on the day of the Alien Murder God. You could have humans who do all of that, but they usually go for things that a regular person could relate to easier.

1 hour ago, Stan Fresh said:

No, the second part is judging the kind of science fiction which I feel is appropriate for Star Wars.

You know, the context I created with my first sentence.

Context - it's really not hard.

Perhaps, but judging right and wrong at all in fiction seems like an oxymoron to me since it's all make believe. Context also doesn't have anything to do with being polite. Out of curiosity though is this an indication of a "crying jag" on your part?

On 9/26/2017 at 2:04 AM, Archlyte said:

Boo! Hiss! Imperial!! Human Supremacist! Why are you even playing Star Wars?

Yeah, I guess I am a bit of a human supremacist, but to me players just never seem to connect with the aliens and robots they create. Their characters are always basically sidekick material. They don't try to engage in anything relevant to their culture or physiology unless it involves removing setbacks or adding boosts, and they are basically there to be the cool X-Species of the group. They play most of the time as a re-skinned human, and forget that they are not human a lot. I have had players hitting on human dancers as a methane breathing bug, have had droid players constantly lapse into Bro mode, and most other aliens end up not having any meaningful relationships with the group or NPC's because they can't really relate to their character in that way. Aliens/Droids make the world more interesting, but they seem to make Player Characters less interesting usually. Players will complain that an all human game is boring, but when I asked them what they meant they gave examples of character development that had nothing to do with being an alien or a droid, or more often than that they just pointed at the exotic nature of the alien/droid. There are few things more boring to me than a Dark Elf Assassin, and I am quickly approaching the same feeling for the Star Wars analogues, bereft of character traits and built to be something of a sidekick in PC clothing.

On a related note but not having to do with aliens: I also seem to have a glut of guys wanting to play girls, and not because they are gay or transgender (which I would happily accommodate), but just because they want to play a woman like how they wish women would be: having a suspiciously male view on sexuality and also being into girls. They play women with no signs of the things found in real women, and essentially just play a dude re-skinned as a hot chick. I would actually welcome a genuinely gay character, as I have no hang ups on that subject, but I have had my fill of sexy lesbian star wars characters.

So while I like to have people make characters that are what they want to play, I am thinking about instituting limits on how many Aliens/Droids can be in the party, as well as gender restrictions unless I get some sort of commitment to realistically play their species/gender. I am fully ready for players to vote with their feet, and I won't use my standard for party building all the time, just for when I announce a heavy RP game.

This is of course a thread concerning my game, and I don't expect anyone else will even share my point of view, but maybe you can tell me how you make aliens and non-type characters work in your games. What do you most enjoy about Star Wars multiculturalism?

Well the main issue I have with your complaint, is that all of the aliens we see, in pretty much any work of sci-fi, are analogous to human behaviors. For pete's sake we have a 50's diner complete with "Heya Puddin!" talking robots in mini skirts, and a big fat cook with your stereotypical stained white t-shirt. We have cross-species relationships, the most recent being Kannen and Hera in Rebels. I'm sure there have been other examples of cross-species attraction, and I know you and I have danced around the "Jabba hitting on dancers" debate in another thread, which I will not re-hash here.

But there is precedent for it I think to some degree. I mean, the most common stripper you see in SW is a Twi'lek, and I promise you that more species other than Twi'lek's are hooting and whistling at them on the stage. So the idea of a methane-breather hitting on a human isn't any more weird than a human hitting on a Twi'lek. Kink is kink, and there is no clearly defined book on what makes people horny.

As to them acting like humans, but with an alien-skin, again, I think the aliens we see behave very much like humans, that's why we can relate to them. I remember when Phantom Menace came out, a lot of people giving Lucas crap for using cultural stereotypes in his aliens. The way Watto sounded like the stereotypical "greedy Jew", the way the....actually I forget their name, but the race that Nute Gunray was of, being very stereotypically Chinese, even with the shape of the eyes. Etc etc.

So to say "you're being too human" I think, doesn't really fly well, considering how very human the aliens, the ones that actually got screen time with dialogue that is, are.