3 hours ago, ThreeAM said:

To a certain extent I can agree with what some others have mentioned here; that aliens in StarWars (also StarTrek) can often be a "planet of hats"( http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlanetOfHats ) or rather they are monocultured (all Trandoshan's are hunters) and unfortunately that often leaves players with not much to go on to create an alien that truly feels unique. In those cases I find its generally up to the player to just fill in any extra details and add their own interpretation.

However I think it really depends on your group. My current group has no humans at all, but I feel each player does a pretty good job of role-playing their alien uniqueness. The bothan regularly describes communication with his fur even when dealing with non bothans, and stresses the importance of gathering intel. The Gand primarily drinks sugar water (bug), calls other individuals by their species rather than by name (as Gands do until they have earned their name), and in general is somewhat xenophobic to non-insect species. The chiss sticks to the "never be the first to strike", and is okay with constantly getting called out for being "the only chiss" this side of the galaxy.

Overall I really appreciate that in general they role-play these traits even when it does not give them an advantage and often to their detriment (examples chiss refusing to shoot until shot, Gand being disrespectful to nobles by not acknowledging their titles). To me this is the mark of good role-playing, carrying out your characters personality all the time and not just when it is convenient; and ultimately that's what I care about, regardless of Human or alien-ness,

I think this is really the best case scenario, because you seem to have squeezed out the horsepower from your players and they are fulfilling the roles in what sound like fun ways. Can I ask if any of these characters have had an arc? Have they been on a personal journey of change? What forces/situations/relationships did they encounter that caused them to change and how did the player portray this?

1 hour ago, themensch said:

I totally agree. If everyone at the table is comfortable with it, play on! However, given some of the tales listed in this thread and with my own experience, the X card will get tapped more often than not. I can count on one hand the number of tables I've played with that had players with sufficient maturity to handle this subject matter. I like to present the X card as an easy "nope" for anyone who is not interested in pursuing that subject, and remind my fellow gamers that it exists.

Forgive my ignorance, what is the X card?

20 minutes ago, Archlyte said:

Anyone have a really serious demographics break down for species? Ooh how I would love that.

In-universe or like in each gaming group? Ah heck I'll give you my group demographics anyway.

group 1 (ending in 3ish sessions)

Just now, Archlyte said:

Oh no Does it help if I say that it's just from the guys at my table that I don't want this? They are kind of making pin-ups for their mind, and while I understand that completely, I get tired of the same character coming across the transom. Especially when they are played by guys with little experience with real women. I would rather they play a wookiee or a droid or something because they seem to understand that better. So are you saying that you actually share my opinion on much of this topic? Wow, that's just amazing to me. I was sure I was never gonna get a thumbs up. I wish there was a Super-Like button for your post.

Hahaha, that's okay. I'm... a bit of a kidder. You probably haven't seen me around much lately but I have an odd sense of humour.

And for what it's worth I agree with you about aliens - and more importantly my players feel that way, so most of the PCs are human and the MarcyVerse was explicitly set up to be human-dominated. I totally understand why some people are attracted to playing exotic characters, but it's natural for many people to have something they can relate to. What I call the 'pretty' species - twi'leks, togruta, zabrak, etc add a sense of exotic for us without being too alien. We also have two droids who are expressly designed to be very human-like.

Down the years I've chatted with other people on this board about this - in the early days I even got some flak for wanting a mix of humanlike and exotic species instead of 'all aliens, all the time'. I chatted with Donovan a lot about how we saw humans as being the 'leading characters' in a Star Wars story, characters who would have speaking parts in a movie or a TV series.

I ask that my players make an effort for any character, but specifically if they play a race or gender that's different to their own. I have good players but I also help them in this regard - we think of ways to show how their race differs from being a human, or how a female character could be played. (I personally learned a LOT of 'guy stuff' as GMing for a mostly-male player-base).

Some players like to play up to the stereotype (it's easy to do) but others subvert it (we have a Chiss who's entire shtick is that she makes up stuff about her race to mess with the human's minds). We have a twi'lek captain who is very independent but the rest of the galaxy sees her species as being strippers at best and sex-slaves at worst. The droids are more 'human' than most humans, but they are second-class citizens at best and regarded as animate objects by many. So playing a different species can be rewarding with a bit of thought.

The 'guys playing as girls' thing is easier as we have a mixed group. I'm not here to shove feminist rhetoric down their throats (GMing for guys makes you pretty tolerant), but help them become better role-players. With a bit of help, even players who want 'sexy lesbians' can have those while still being interesting and well-played characters, instead of insulting and shallow stereotypes.

7 minutes ago, Archlyte said:

Forgive my ignorance, what is the X card?

I assume he means sexual content at the table.

I don't blame most groups for wanting to avoid it. It's very easy to get wrong and end up being awkward.

Done with the right group and a good sense of familiarity, it can be a lot of fun. My players expressly wanted a game for grown-ups, where moral choices and exploration of adult themes was a part of the game. It's not the only part, but it's a thing, shall we say.

As long as everyone's opinions are sought and people's boundaries are respected, it can work, but it takes the right group. It often goes wrong if a) it's played for laughs or in poor taste, or b) it takes over the game and just becomes a weird sex parody. It takes a good deal of effort to strike a decent balance. Personally I feel it's worth it. My group expressly asked for 'Game of Thrones' elements in the game.

7 minutes ago, GroggyGolem said:

In-universe or like in each gaming group? Ah heck I'll give you my group demographics anyway.

group 1 (ending in 3ish sessions)

droid/jango fett clone

twi'lek

chiss

wookiee

wookiee/gungan

bothan

human (been on a hiatus)

zeltron (no longer playing)

nautolan (no longer playing)

twi'lek (no longer playing)

human (only played once)

the clawdite from group 3 plays in this group now

group 2

twi'lek

nautolan

nautolan (same character continued in group 2 v2 and group 2 v3)

ewok

jawa

arkanian off-shoot

group 2 v2

nautolan

lepi (same character in group 2 v3)

human

mirialan

jawa

group 2 v3 (kind of a dead game)

nautolan

lepi

zabrack

togruta

group 3 (dead game)

squib/korun

gotal

clawdite

ubese

bothan

givin

group 4 (dead game)

kel dor

chiss

kyuzo

zabrack

gungan (played for 2 sessions)

dashade (played for 3 sessions)

group 5 (ongoing)

human

twi'lek

wookiee

selonian

group 6

(putting this group together, gonna wait til i'm local in that area before i start running it)

so far there's a nagai character

Thank you for typing this up as it was an illustration of what I figured standard groups might look like. I was originally talking about the Galaxy and I was doing it sort of tongue in cheek because I doubted anyone had taken the time to do the population percentages for each of the more prominent races. I used to like it in the old Greyhawk Book where it would give the population breakdown for the region. Thanks for this. And if anyone else wants to post their group makeup that would be awesome.

4 hours ago, HappyDaze said:

I really hate that Hondo is popular and makes people want to play Weequay when he's a Weequay that acts entirely like a human and nothing like the descriptions we have for Weequay.

Well, to be honest I don't want to play a Hondo, I want to play an Enforcer Weequay who says little and gets the job done. I just liked that the Hondo character gave Weequay a little more limelight.

1 minute ago, Archlyte said:

Thank you for typing this up as it was an illustration of what I figured standard groups might look like. I was originally talking about the Galaxy and I was doing it sort of tongue in cheek because I doubted anyone had taken the time to do the population percentages for each of the more prominent races. I used to like it in the old Greyhawk Book where it would give the population breakdown for the region. Thanks for this. And if anyone else wants to post their group makeup that would be awesome.

Heck I'll even give you the career/spec paths they all chose if you want. It's surprising how once one player expresses interest in becoming Force Sensitive how many jump on that train.

Well, at last count the Marcy Cinematic Universe had (over 5 or 6 separate groups in a shared universe of about 15 players):

20 Humans

2 Togruta

2 droids

1 each of Chiss, Twi'lek, Arkanian, Mirialan, Zabrak

2 near-humans (Corellian and Mandalorian; they're near-humans in the MarcyVerse. Oddly enough, the Corellian Hired Gun gets easily annoyed at being mistaken for 'human')

10 minutes ago, Maelora said:

Hahaha, that's okay. I'm... a bit of a kidder. You probably haven't seen me around much lately but I have an odd sense of humour.

And for what it's worth I agree with you about aliens - and more importantly my players feel that way, so most of the PCs are human and the MarcyVerse was explicitly set up to be human-dominated. I totally understand why some people are attracted to playing exotic characters, but it's natural for many people to have something they can relate to. What I call the 'pretty' species - twi'leks, togruta, zabrak, etc add a sense of exotic for us without being too alien. We also have two droids who are expressly designed to be very human-like.

Down the years I've chatted with other people on this board about this - in the early days I even got some flak for wanting a mix of humanlike and exotic species instead of 'all aliens, all the time'. I chatted with Donovan a lot about how we saw humans as being the 'leading characters' in a Star Wars story, characters who would have speaking parts in a movie or a TV series.

I ask that my players make an effort for any character, but specifically if they play a race or gender that's different to their own. I have good players but I also help them in this regard - we think of ways to show how their race differs from being a human, or how a female character could be played. (I personally learned a LOT of 'guy stuff' as GMing for a mostly-male player-base).

Some players like to play up to the stereotype (it's easy to do) but others subvert it (we have a Chiss who's entire shtick is that she makes up stuff about her race to mess with the human's minds). We have a twi'lek captain who is very independent but the rest of the galaxy sees her species as being strippers at best and sex-slaves at worst. The droids are more 'human' than most humans, but they are second-class citizens at best and regarded as animate objects by many. So playing a different species can be rewarding with a bit of thought.

The 'guys playing as girls' thing is easier as we have a mixed group. I'm not here to shove feminist rhetoric down their throats (GMing for guys makes you pretty tolerant), but help them become better role-players. With a bit of help, even players who want 'sexy lesbians' can have those while still being interesting and well-played characters, instead of insulting and shallow stereotypes.

Thanks for this, it's very nice to find a fellow Main-Characterist. That has always been my primary point, that the movies are centered around humans, and that I would imagine the PCs want to be the main characters. I think I should just do what you do and coach the players who play the Alien/Droid characters so that we can strike a balance between whatever it is that they want and the sort of fidelity to sim that I want. I was actually insulted by the shallow characters because I felt like the game wasn't being taken seriously. The Marcy-Verse sounds pretty awesome, I'm glad to know it's out there.

6 minutes ago, GroggyGolem said:

It's surprising how once one player expresses interest in becoming Force Sensitive how many jump on that train.

Hi Groggy! Long time no see.

Oddly enough, only 14 of 27 characters are Sensitive for us, which is likely lower than many groups.

I really liked that FFG's game didn't automatically become Jedi Town and that mundane roles like mechanic or diplomat could be awesome.

Just now, Maelora said:

Well, at last count the Marcy Cinematic Universe had (over 5 or 6 separate groups in a shared universe of about 15 players):

20 Humans

2 Togruta

2 droids

1 each of Chiss, Twi'lek, Arkanian, Mirialan, Zabrak

2 near-humans (Corellian and Mandalorian; they're near-humans in the MarcyVerse. Oddly enough, the Corellian Hired Gun gets easily annoyed at being mistaken for 'human')

You are gonna throw off the averages with all those Humans! lol. I love that you consider Mandos and Corellians near humans, is that common? I always just assumed they were regular human stock.

8 minutes ago, GroggyGolem said:

Heck I'll even give you the career/spec paths they all chose if you want. It's surprising how once one player expresses interest in becoming Force Sensitive how many jump on that train.

Surprising is one word for it. Annoying is another word for it if the campaign was originally intended to be light on tfhe Force elements.

9 minutes ago, GroggyGolem said:

Heck I'll even give you the career/spec paths they all chose if you want. It's surprising how once one player expresses interest in becoming Force Sensitive how many jump on that train.

Yeah I noticed that too. It's contagious lol.

18 minutes ago, Archlyte said:

You are gonna throw off the averages with all those Humans! lol. I love that you consider Mandos and Corellians near humans, is that common? I always just assumed they were regular human stock.

Oh, in canon they are. We rewrote a LOT of that and slaughtered entire herds of sacred cows. We spent a good six months planning what our galaxy would look like, with a lot of player input. I'm the GM, so I get to name it but it's actually the creation of many talented people.

Essentially, we started with: how would we change Star Wars to make it better for us ? What baggage can we throw out? How do we make it relevant to a group in our 40's without losing the core themes of sacrifice, morality and friendship? What does it need to be a role-playing setting rather than a movie franchise?

So yeah, Corellians and Mandalorians became their own thing as genetically-altered near-humans and we had a lot of fun reworking the lore.

We pretty much ended up with a game that's 'a vague homage to Star Wars' than 'a Star Wars game' but rebooting it all from scratch was the chance of a lifetime for most of us. We're all big fans of the early WEG period, when there was very little canon and the RPG was actually setting the entire tone of the franchise. When it felt like 'ours' and not 'theirs'.

16 minutes ago, HappyDaze said:

Surprising is one word for it. Annoying is another word for it if the campaign was originally intended to be light on tfhe Force elements.

The MarcyVerse did aim to keep Force-use low-key. A lot of the characters (the Exile and the Emergents) are limited to 2 Force dice, for example. Only four of nearly 30 PCs have lightsabers.

That was absolutely something we wanted to keep, even if we changed the heck out of the lore of The Force itself. We wanted a galaxy full of mystery, where strange 'magic' powers were barely understood even by the experts, and where lightsabers were the equivalent of high-end magic weapons in D&D, your Vorpal Blades or Holy Avengers.

Group 1

My favorite character that I'm currently playing is female and gay (I'm a straight guy), though her sexuality doesn't really come into play for the most part. I created her to fill a niche in an established party, which needed an Explorer-type (and also happened to be a total sausage-fest). The subject of her being gay is a non-issue in the game, just as such things should be a non-issue in life. I elected for her to be gay, because that's how I envisioned her at character creation. No biggie.

The lady adventurer is a familiar trope, and the Star Wars universe even has its own Doctor Aphra, which provided some inspiration; I try to make her my own, though. I can't vouch for my role playing.. maybe she's not feminine enough.. or gay enough? I thoroughly enjoy playing the character, though, and I like to think her presence adds something to the party. Regardless of whom she might hypothetically bed, between adventures.

3 minutes ago, GroggyGolem said:

Group 1

droid smuggler: pilot /jango fett clone ace: pilot respecced into soldier: commando, vanguard, heavy; recruit

twi'lek colonist: doctor respecced into technician: cybertech; gunslinger; ambassador

chiss technician: slicer; gunslinger

wookiee bounty hunter: assassin, martial artist; beastrider

wookiee warrior: shii-cho knight, aggressor /gungan ace: hotshot; performer; charmer

bothan technician: outlaw tech; demolitionist; force sensitive exile; shien expert

human (been on a hiatus) commander: stragegist, tactician

zeltron (no longer playing) sentinel: artisan

nautolan (no longer playing) bounty hunter: survivalist; force sensitive exile

twi'lek (no longer playing) smuggler: charmer

human (only played once) hired gun: mercenary soldier

the clawdite from group 3 plays in this group now

Group 2

twi'lek colonist: politico

nautolan explorer: fringer

nautolan (same character continued in group 2 v2 and group 2 v3) explorer: scout

ewok technician: slicer

jawa explorer: fringer

arkanian off-shoot bounty hunter: gadgeteer

group 2 v2

nautolan respecced into seeker: pathfinder

lepi (same character in group 2 v3) smuggler: gunslinger

human smuggler: pilot; force sensitive exile

mirialan hired gun: enforcer

jawa smuggler: thief

group 2 v3 (kind of a dead game)

nautolan (same as before, seeker: pathfinder)

lepi (same as before, smuggler: gunslinger)

zabrack consular: niman disciple

togruta sentinel: shien expert

Group 3

squib colonist: politico /korun ace: beastrider; force sensitive exile; ataru striker

gotal smuggler: thief

clawdite hired gun: mercenary soldier; force sensitive exile; ataru striker; seer

ubese bounty hunter; survivalist

bothan colonist: entrepreneur; force sensitive exile

givin bounty hunter: gadgeteer

Group 4

kel dor explorer: fringer

chiss colonist: doctor; heavy

kyuzo hired gun: enforcer

zabrack (this one i can't remember, something from F&D)

gungan (played for 2 sessions) smuggler: pilot

dashade (played for 3 sessions) bounty hunter: assassin

Group 5

human smuggler: something or other respecced to smuggler: gunslinger; force sensitive exile

twi'lek explorer: big-game hunter

wookiee hired gun: bodyguard

selonian bounty hunter: gadgeteer

Group 6

nagai mystic: makashi duelist

Man Groggy it really makes them more interesting seeing their actual specializations. I am going to go over this again later, but at first glance it's just cool. Must have been some wild stuff these games

48 minutes ago, Maelora said:

What I call the 'pretty' species - twi'leks, togruta, zabrak, etc add a sense of exotic for us without being too alien.

The Empire in my campaign actually has a semi-unofficial classification systems for non-humans (beyond just being non-human) which is based in part on this concept.

2 minutes ago, Edgehawk said:

My favorite character that I'm currently playing is female and gay (I'm a straight guy), though her sexuality doesn't really come into play for the most part. I created her to fill a niche in an established party, which needed an Explorer-type (and also happened to be a total sausage-fest). The subject of her being gay is a non-issue in the game, just as such things should be a non-issue in life. I elected for her to be gay, because that's how I envisioned her at character creation. No biggie.

The lady adventurer is a familiar trope, and the Star Wars universe even has its own Doctor Aphra, which provided some inspiration; I try to make her my own, though. I can't vouch for my role playing.. maybe she's not feminine enough.. or gay enough? I thoroughly enjoy playing the character, though, and I like to think her presence adds something to the party. Regardless of whom she might hypothetically bed, between adventures.

Yeah see that is what I would hope for, that the character is created the way she was because it fits the character rather than being a way for the hetero male player to get to avoid relationships with males in-game. I can see a character having no interest in sex either as a contrast, but again when this is only done to facilitate the player getting to play something different but refusing to pay the price it is irritating.

3 minutes ago, Archlyte said:

Man Groggy it really makes them more interesting seeing their actual specializations. I am going to go over this again later, but at first glance it's just cool. Must have been some wild stuff these games

Group 1 is the first group to get together to play and will be so far the only group that actually concludes rather than falls apart. It has been pure chaos since day 1, when I realized the droid pilot was a murderbot. Every group has been very fun to run the game for and at some times kind of frustrating but that's people for ya. Excited to start group 6 after I move across the country!

4 minutes ago, GroggyGolem said:

Group 1 is the first group to get together to play and will be so far the only group that actually concludes rather than falls apart. It has been pure chaos since day 1, when I realized the droid pilot was a murderbot. Every group has been very fun to run the game for and at some times kind of frustrating but that's people for ya. Excited to start group 6 after I move across the country!

Awesome stuff, where you moving to? Just curious

25 minutes ago, Archlyte said:

Awesome stuff, where you moving to? Just curious

Moving to Kentucky, from FL. Done with the hurricane garbage and the endless heat.

9 hours ago, Archlyte said:

I guess it wouldn't, I was merely pointing out that this was not the case, not that the opposite was right or wrong. That they were doing it for other reasons.

I took it as gay people have less hangups about the idea that a female character might have a fully fleshed out, not "lol bewbporn" approach to same sex relationships or not be petrified the idea of playing a hetero female with a male romantic interest would instantly make them gay (it sounds silly, but I've had players balk at that option). Not "gays are basically women" or anything like that.

I've definitely seen it - though more in your online games like World of Warcraft, SW:TOR and GTA Online - where men play hypersexualised and attractive women for gratification purposes. It's not ok - especially after Rey and Jyn were broadcast into our consciousness.

On the alien question - I take the OP's point, and would point out that unless a player really wants to play an alien for lore, story or cultural reasons, there's no reason to mandate it. The worst is "because I want to shoot people and they get a 3 in AGI at creation!".