29 minutes ago, HappyDaze said:What about those that have had such interactions but have chosen to deal with them without using a prop?
Like me? Well, it's been a decade or two but I ran an open table 6 nights a week at the only hobby store in a small college town.
1 minute ago, 2P51 said:How would you know? You can't ask them? That's why it's a ******* terrible idea.
How many players do you have at your table that are comfortable describing their childhood sexual abuse? Would you like to hear about it? The X card goes both ways.
Hey readers - it's come to my attention that I am held in such esteem that many people think that when I provide a link to a useful tool for some people, you are all REQUIRED TO USE IT OR YOU WILL DIE. That's just not the case. As I am held in such high esteem, I propose that everyone find their own path to fun and happiness in their games. If I post something that helps you, great! Don't want to use it? Great! Want to tell me how I'm wrong about it? I'm going to tap the X-card there.....
2 hours ago, themensch said:* Wyld Stallyons rules:
1. Be Excellent to each other
2. Party on, Dudes! (dudes being the gender/species neutral form, as was intended.)
While I still hold any esteem, I will bring back the wisdom of the ancients of the one page ago to portray my table rules.
1 minute ago, themensch said:How many players do you have at your table that are comfortable describing their childhood sexual abuse? Would you like to hear about it? The X card goes both ways.
Sorry, that person needs to deal with their own stuff. Frankly it ins't just a horrible idea in RPGing, it's a missed opportunity because an RPG provides a venue for confronting that and dealing with it. Someone who hasn't dealt with their problems I may feel bad for them, but I don't want their unresolved issues at my table and honestly it's completely unreasonable of them to expect the world to pivot around them. In fact enabling them in not dealing with their problems frankly you're hurting them, not helping them.
Just now, 2P51 said:Sorry, that person needs to deal with their own stuff. Frankly it ins't just a horrible idea in RPGing, it's a missed opportunity because an RPG provides a venue for confronting that and dealing with it. Someone who hasn't dealt with their problems I may feel bad for them, but I don't want their unresolved issues at my table and honestly it's completely unreasonable of them to expect the world to pivot around them. In fact enabling them in not dealing with their problems frankly you're hurting them, not helping them.
I agree with some of what you've said, and disagree with others. I don't intend to turn this into some sort of lecture, but suffice to say people bring their baggage with them all the time whether we like it or not and giving someone an easy out is plenty fine by me.
You are of course entitled to your opinions, and I not only respect that but I respect them. My life experience has been different, and I'm not wrong in having the opinions I do. Will I allow the X-card to be used for every issue a player doesn't like in a session? Once, perhaps, and then that person won't be asked back. However, used as a fire extinguisher rather than a match-snuffer, it has its place in public play where we don't know the people sitting across from us.
1 minute ago, themensch said:How many players do you have at your table that are comfortable describing their childhood sexual abuse? Would you like to hear about it? The X card goes both ways.
I wouldn't expect a description, but I don't see why a verbal statement like "I'm not comfortable with this" or something like that is unreasonable.
There's two sides to this one too. Many (most?) people have had terrible experiences they'd rather forget, but part of being an adult is learning how to cope when the un-safe-space that is the world brings your taboo subject to the fore. On the flip side, you can be uncomfortable with subject matter that you don't have direct experience with. I've never experienced child abuse, nor do I know anyone who has, but I wouldn't play with a group that made it part of the game...the options being either to immediately leave quietly (adult), or flip the table and the bird on the way out (fun, but juvenile).
I just don't see how a reliance on props is productive in any way.
There isn't anything slightly contradictory about what I said. They do need to deal with their own problems. RPGs are a good venue. I do feel bad for them. I will not let them derail a table because of their problems and wouldn't want to deal with it, they need to, happy to let them sit there and do so, unwilling to let them shut people down. Psychologists routinely help people deal with fears by confronting them, they're helping.
Your X card is just a means to make RPG sessions happen regardless of whether that is actually good for the person, it just ignores the problem.
Edited by 2P511 hour ago, Yaccarus said:Introduces major problem to PCs...
X Card!
It feels like some folks haven't read the entirety of the linked text and are forming ill-informed opinions.
If the major problem introduced is Rapey the half-orc preschool teacher, yeah maybe there's an issue there.
If the major problem introduced is 2 AT-ATs, there's a possibility the complaint might be bogus.
It's as if there's a bit of nuance and maturity that should be considered.
1 minute ago, whafrog said:I wouldn't expect a description, but I don't see why a verbal statement like "I'm not comfortable with this" or something like that is unreasonable.
There's two sides to this one too. Many (most?) people have had terrible experiences they'd rather forget, but part of being an adult is learning how to cope when the un-safe-space that is the world brings your taboo subject to the fore. On the flip side, you can be uncomfortable with subject matter that you don't have direct experience with. I've never experienced child abuse, nor do I know anyone who has, but I wouldn't play with a group that made it part of the game...the options being either to immediately leave quietly (adult), or flip the table and the bird on the way out (fun, but juvenile).
I just don't see how a reliance on props is productive in any way.
So drawing an X on a card instead of forcing someone to say they're uncomfortable is a useful alternative in my mind. And while I agree people need to come to terms with their lives as they are, me included, I don't necessarily want to do it in the middle of a roleplaying game about space wizards and blaster planets.
1 minute ago, themensch said:It's as if there's a bit of nuance and maturity that should be considered.
Maybe the nuance should come from the aggrieved party, rather than pushing the problem to everyone else to decipher.
2 minutes ago, 2P51 said:There isn't anything slightly contradictory about what I said. They do need to deal with their own problems. RPGs are a good venue. I do feel bad for them. I will not let them derail a table because of their problems and wouldn't want to deal with it, they need to, happy to let them sit there and do so, unwilling to let them shut people down. Psycologists routinely help people deal with fears by confronting them, they're helping.
Your X card is just a means to make RPG sessions happen regardless of whether that is actually good for the person, it just ignores the problem.
Not my X card - the X card. I just linked to it for people that might find it useful. The subtext to your statements was that I should be expected to deal with other people's issues when I'm trying to run a game, and perhaps I am not as generous as you would appear to be.
20 minutes ago, 2P51 said:Sorry, that person needs to deal with their own stuff. Frankly it ins't just a horrible idea in RPGing, it's a missed opportunity because an RPG provides a venue for confronting that and dealing with it. Someone who hasn't dealt with their problems I may feel bad for them, but I don't want their unresolved issues at my table and honestly it's completely unreasonable of them to expect the world to pivot around them. In fact enabling them in not dealing with their problems frankly you're hurting them, not helping them.
You’re a bit of an edge lord aren’t you?
as for why I stopped responding, I had said what I needed to say and it was obviouse that it meant something to who it did and wasn’t getting through to people who it wasn’t.
I chose to spend my time on more beneficial things like planning my next game session rather than wasting it on people who were continuing to set the tone and then getting upset when I responded to the tone they set in similar manner.
Just now, themensch said:Not my X card - the X card. I just linked to it for people that might find it useful. The subtext to your statements was that I should be expected to deal with other people's issues when I'm trying to run a game, and perhaps I am not as generous as you would appear to be.
Nope. Wrong again. You shouldn't deal with anything. They should. Unless it's a table full of kids that falls on every adult. Not everyone gets dealt a great hand of cards I understand that. That isn't everyone else's fault.
1 minute ago, whafrog said:Maybe the nuance should come from the aggrieved party, rather than pushing the problem to everyone else to decipher.
A valid point. If the rule is codified so as to prevent attempted deciphering, perhaps it's not as egregious an offense.
2 minutes ago, Norr-Saba said:You’re a bit of an edge lord aren’t you?
as for why I stopped responding, I had said what I needed to say and it was obviouse that it meant something to who it did and wasn’t getting through to people who it wasn’t.
I chose to spend my time on more beneficial things like planning my next game session rather than wasting it on people who were continuing to set the tone and then getting upset when I responded to the tone they set in similar manner.
Uh huh. A week old avatar and you chose to dive head first into this thread. Uh huh, sure.
Just now, 2P51 said:Nope. Wrong again. You shouldn't deal with anything. They should. Unless it's a table full of kids that falls on every adult. Not everyone gets dealt a great hand of cards I understand that. That isn't everyone else's fault.
Well...again I respect your opinion, but I'm not wrong. I've had numerous run-ins with people who are mentally ill and the rosey picture you paint doesn't exist in the society I inhabit. I long for the days that people DO deal with things and they don't carry their baggage everywhere for others to deal with. I'll take that and a gumdrop house.
All right all right all right, seems like nobody wants to delve into PC safe spaces for PCs. Fair enough. Like I said, I told my death troopers to stand down and nobody will force anyone to use this technique or even force anyone to fully read the document before responding with wild abandon. Carry on!
Safe spaces for old grognards are fine though, god forbid any modern concepts get introduced into games to disrupt
those
Pretty much every problem anyone has raised with the X-card is the kind of problem that only comes from *** players you don't want at your table anyway, so like, kick them out if it becomes an issue? Having a simple, non-disruptive way to censor out certain sensitive content on the spot doesn't force you to sign an agreement that you can never have a friendly discussion with the player afterwards about what's up. And that's only if you use the **** thing, it's entirely optional. I don't. Can certainly see the appeal for more publicly accessible games though.
Seems like you guys really need an x-card for when anyone dares to introduce a new idea you're not comfortable with?
33 minutes ago, 2P51 said:There isn't anything slightly contradictory about what I said. They do need to deal with their own problems. RPGs are a good venue. I do feel bad for them. I will not let them derail a table because of their problems and wouldn't want to deal with it, they need to, happy to let them sit there and do so, unwilling to let them shut people down. Psychologists routinely help people deal with fears by confronting them, they're helping.
Your X card is just a means to make RPG sessions happen regardless of whether that is actually good for the person, it just ignores the problem.
You have no idea how mental illness works if you think someone should be forced to confront their phobias at an RPG table as some kind of ad-hoc therapy. It's not called exposure therapy because you're meant to throw yourself at any and all upsetting stimuli.
They could be x-carding something BECAUSE their mental health professional told them they're not ready to engage with that kind of content.
I was trying to avoid engaging anyone directly but yikes, this is a mess of a post.
Edited by Tom CruiseEh, I see both sides of the argument. My thinking is that a smidgen of consideration for others costs you nothing and goes a long way (especially on a supershitty day like today). No, we're not your therapy group and I'm not your doctor - but if I inadvertently take the story into a subject that my players might feel uncomfortable with, I see no harm with a nice, discrete way of saying so. I mean we're all here to have fun, right?
I don't see my group needing a Safeword - we're all pretty mature and comfortable with each other - but I don't see why this couldn't have use in a less familiar setting. And having a safeword in play doesn't necessarily mean that it'll come up every single week/session. Having an escape hatch, tho, just in case? Not that bad of an idea.
21 minutes ago, 2P51 said:Uh huh. A week old avatar and you chose to dive head first into this thread. Uh huh, sure.
Is it really so odd to you that a gm who makes an account and sees a post that is not only emotionally evocative, but stays the top post in the gm subforum the entire time they are waiting for posting approval would want to weigh in on the topic, especially when they have real life experiences that are relevant to the subject being discussed?
obviously not, but thankyou for highlighting my point about why I stopped responding to the thread, you have no desire to listen, and even after it becoming apparent that you have nothing of value to add in the way of a critique of what I’ve said you have begun attacking my legitimacy as a person.
But anyway I’m done with you and the op, who made the same accusations in their close out post in order to try and cover themselves.
I’m not sorry for pointing out the way that real life bigotry and racism can cross over into gaming culture and the need to address it, but it is clear you do not want to have anything to do with a discussion of such things and are only interested in being an edgelord as I pointed out before.
1 minute ago, Tom Cruise said:You have no idea how mental illness works if you think someone should be forced to confront their phobias at an RPG table as some kind of ad-hoc therapy. It's not called exposure therapy because you're meant to throw yourself at any and all upsetting stimuli.
They could be x-carding something BECAUSE their mental health professional told them they're not ready to engage with that kind of content.
I was trying to avoid engaging anyone directly but yikes, this is a mess of a post.
If they need a card to interact with people they aren't ready for interacting with strangers who don't know them at all.
I never said forced, go ahead and quote where I said that. I would never force anyone to do anything, including telling them to shut up.
1 minute ago, Norr-Saba said:Is it really so odd to you that a gm who makes an account and sees a post that is not only emotionally evocative, but stays the top post in the gm subforum the entire time they are waiting for posting approval would want to weigh in on the topic, especially when they have real life experiences that are relevant to the subject being discussed?
obviously not, but thankyou for highlighting my point about why I stopped responding to the thread, you have no desire to listen, and even after it becoming apparent that you have nothing of value to add in the way of a critique of what I’ve said you have begun attacking my legitimacy as a person.
But anyway I’m done with you and the op, who made the same accusations in their close out post in order to try and cover themselves.
I’m not sorry for pointing out the way that real life bigotry and racism can cross over into gaming culture and the need to address it, but it is clear you do not want to have anything to do with a discussion of such things and are only interested in being an edgelord as I pointed out before.
OK, bye.
3 minutes ago, Desslok said:Eh, I see both sides of the argument. My thinking is that a smidgen of consideration for others costs you nothing and goes a long way (especially on a supershitty day like today). No, we're not your therapy group and I'm not your doctor - but if I inadvertently take the story into a subject that my players might feel uncomfortable with, I see no harm with a nice, discrete way of saying so. I mean we're all here to have fun, right?
I don't see my group needing a Safeword - we're all pretty mature and comfortable with each other - but I don't see why this couldn't have use in a less familiar setting. And having a safeword in play doesn't necessarily mean that it'll come up every single week/session. Having an escape hatch, tho, just in case? Not that bad of an idea.
Which whafrog and I agreed with. It's the 'shut up card' that's non sense.