Looking at the YT2400 and the Scurrg, similar stats but if properly scaled the Scurrg should be the more massive of the two. Why did they scale it down? If the broken little bugger was instead a large ship it would probably be a pretty reasonable ship.

Well that and it wasn’t inexplicably given a 6-8 point discount... seriously even within the Rebel faction the thing is given a deep deep discount and it makes no sense when stacked up against BWings, YT2400, even the KWing. Are Rebel bombers for some reason given a discount because they get so many awesome options to choose from?

Compared to a Tie Bomber it pays 1 point per stat upgrade, 1 point for a crew, and 1 point for a dial.

I’m beginning to think it was meant to be a large ship and then was changed post play test.

edit: to scale pics as per their stats

Making it a large base would be a buff, as the effects of boost and roll on it would be amplified. Nym's bombs would have even more reach and the missiles would be harder to avoid.

Also, it is actually a pretty reasonable ship in and of itself. It's only mildly more point-efficient than a B-wing (which is already somewhat inefficient), and the dial is average at best (it's an E-wing but worse). The problems come from the fact Bomblet exists and the Havoc title giving it an unrestricted Sensor slot (and the EPT, but IMO that's more of a flow-on problem from the other two). Take the infinite bombs out of the equation and either take away the System slot or lock it to 2 points or less and we're fine.

Just removing the Bomblet Generator would be fine.

1 minute ago, DR4CO said:

Making it a large base would be a buff, as the effects of boost and roll on it would be amplified. Nym's bombs would have even more reach and the missiles would be harder to avoid.

Not really sure about that. Nym is strong because the can move everywhere thanks of his small base. It's true what you're saying but a large base is way easier to block in matter of Boost and B-rolls.

And we are talking about a ship which costs something like 39-46 points. Being large ship, it should give halfhp/halfpoints.

22 minutes ago, Stoneface said:

Just removing the Bomblet Generator would be fine.

It would certainly solve several problems at once.

Bit of a shame, though. It's the type of upgrade that would be a nice boost to underperforming ships like the Punisher and perhaps tolerable if confined there.

If both Rebel and Scum Nym were PS6 (like Deathrain who cant even take an ept) we would also be in a much better place..

PS 8&9 used to be a sacred thing. Really all three factions have too many PS that are too high.

Because S&V already has too many good large ships, while most of the small bases are average or even underperforming if measuring from a purely competitive 100/6 point of view. The Scurrg most probably was intended to play in the same slot as the K-wing and the Punisher, giving all 3 factions a small-based dedicated bomber.

And being the new hotness its logical that many want to play it. I would not remove bomblet generator, neither nerf Genius (because that trashcan can actually be used for suicide Y-wings, nerfing him purely due to Nym would remove that option), and the Scurrg itself melts fast. The problem is Nym's abilites at that PS.

That unfortunately the K-wing was good and the Punisher was lackluster from the beginning was a design miss in that wave. Punisher got better now with LWF and Bomblet Generator. Instead of whining all the time, anyone who actually tested Deathrain, with bomblet generator? Throw unlimited bombs to the front, roll away, do maneuver, boost out of range...

10 hp on a small base with turret and Sabine bombs and AS.

Double digit HP. On a ‘medium’ base. That’s crap. Sure it’s behind 1 agi but that hp takes time to chew through. Meanwhile ps 9 aces suffer dealing with a FAQing bomber. It’s not an impossible situation but I can see why tourney folks are complaining.

Nerfing probably isn’t the answer. I’m tired of seeing nerfs being herded every wave since the Phantom menace and Fat Han. For every Humpmaster nerf there’s another ship that suffers, such as poor BT Kavil or Rudor with the timing chart madness. Or potentially Deadeye Firesprays. You can’t always ‘fix it in post’, FFG there’s no excuse when you have access to extremely experienced play testers. I know you have to jazz up the EU scummie ships to make them more appealing for sales since you’ve exhausted the most iconic ships 9 waves ago, but it’s making you guys look like amateurs.

If Miranda and Esege didn't get an EPT, and Death Rain, Death Fire and Red Line didn't get an EPT... why did Nym and Sol got an EPT?

If the K-wing got Crew as special upgrade, and the Punisher got Systems as special upgrade, why did the Scurrg get Crew/Astromech+System?

I mean... You don't need a MajorJuggler behind your ear making a thesis on statistics to figure out that this is being unfair. Why did they do it?
I don't want to imply that there is Scum favoritism here, because Nym is also Rebel. But really nobody during the playtesting process was bothered with the fact that this was happening? And somehow, on top of that, infinite bombs! Small base! One more hitpoint! Barrel roll!
Nobody said "Please, stop! Are you crazy?"

I would really like to hear what the developers have to say about these decisions.
You can blame the playtesters once with the Jumpmaster 5000 and get away with it. But not twice. Especially since you have the precedent of it, plus combos like Accuracy Corrector + Autoblaster Turret have been feared for many years.
Why allowing it to happen?

Which dev appears first in the credits of this expansion?

Nym's clearly very popular and quite dominant at the moment, but that's down to his pilot ability and PS rather than the platform itself. Non-Nym Scurrgs aren't exactly tearing up the meta at the moment, and overall it seems like quite a balanced ship. Nym may need a tweak to make him less of a gatekeeper to other squads being able to succeed, but that's not an issue with the basic ship itself.

Also, I really like the design of the Havoc title. Swapping out rather than just gaining upgrade slots means you need to make choices about what way you go when building a Scurrg.

Hate to break it to you guys, but the SCURRG's base stats are not incredibly great. Comparing it to incredibly overcosted non-dash yt2400s and underwhelming bwings doesn't do anything other than show it isn't bad

Ps 8 also isn't crazy because you have more ships hitting 8/9 than otherwise, and most with epts.

What makes nym strong is the combination of every upgrade he takes synergizing with his ability. The base statline is very unimpressive

38 minutes ago, Azrapse said:

If Miranda and Esege didn't get an EPT, and Death Rain, Death Fire and Red Line didn't get an EPT... why did Nym and Sol got an EPT?

If the K-wing got Crew as special upgrade, and the Punisher got Systems as special upgrade, why did the Scurrg get Crew/Astromech+System?

I mean... You don't need a MajorJuggler behind your ear making a thesis on statistics to figure out that this is being unfair. Why did they do it?
I don't want to imply that there is Scum favoritism here, because Nym is also Rebel. But really nobody during the playtesting process was bothered with the fact that this was happening? And somehow, on top of that, infinite bombs! Small base! One more hitpoint! Barrel roll!
Nobody said "Please, stop! Are you crazy?"

I would really like to hear what the developers have to say about these decisions.
You can blame the playtesters once with the Jumpmaster 5000 and get away with it. But not twice. Especially since you have the precedent of it, plus combos like Accuracy Corrector + Autoblaster Turret have been feared for many years.
Why allowing it to happen?

Which dev appears first in the credits of this expansion?

Wait a minute: you have a point on the Imperial side, but are you argoing with a K wing?

I mean, no ept sure....*coff -Slam- *coff...

5 hours ago, DR4CO said:

Making it a large base would be a buff, as the effects of boost and roll on it would be amplified. Nym's bombs would have even more reach and the missiles would be harder to avoid.

Also, it is actually a pretty reasonable ship in and of itself. It's only mildly more point-efficient than a B-wing (which is already somewhat inefficient), and the dial is average at best (it's an E-wing but worse). The problems come from the fact Bomblet exists and the Havoc title giving it an unrestricted Sensor slot (and the EPT, but IMO that's more of a flow-on problem from the other two). Take the infinite bombs out of the equation and either take away the System slot or lock it to 2 points or less and we're fine.

It would be a buff to its turret but a nerf for bombs. Yes the troll bomb goes farther and a pre boost/broll has a larger range, but like others have said those options are now easier blocked. The main bombing nerf would be the fact that now you can no longer bump and bomb as the bomb would be out of range 1 in most cases instead of always inside range 1.

9 minutes ago, Cerve said:

Wait a minute: you have a point on the Imperial side, but are you argoing with a K wing?

I mean, no ept sure....*coff -Slam- *coff...

Sabine breaks the K-wing, not SLAM. And Sabine came in a later wave.
Without Sabine, a K-wing can equip 2 bombs that with extra munitions allow for 4 total. Again, without Sabine, the only way to deal autodamage with Miranda in a consistent way is with Conner net and Advanced SLAM, but it deals only 1 damage, so total 4 over 4 rounds minimum, no attacks then. Not many risked using proximity mines or cluster mines because they could backfire and deal nothing (especially when Palpatine could turn a mine hit into a blank).
You could bring PS2 Warden Squadron Pilots and be a threat to super squishy aces with that, but at that PS, they never were that problematic.

It all started going bad when Sabine added 1 instant damage to any mine or bomb, at any range, for the whole game.

In any case, compare that with Nym that can move, bomb damage, autodamage from Sabine, then autodamage from AC+ABT.

1 minute ago, Azrapse said:

Sabine breaks the K-wing, not SLAM. And Sabine came in a later wave.
Without Sabine, a K-wing can equip 2 bombs that with extra munitions allow for 4 total. Again, without Sabine, the only way to deal autodamage with Miranda in a consistent way is with Conner net and Advanced SLAM, but it deals only 1 damage, so total 4. Not many risked using proximity mines or cluster mines because they could backfire and deal nothing (especially when Palpatine could turn a mine hit into a blank).
You could bring PS2 Warden Squadron Pilots and be a threat to super squishy aces with that, but at that PS, they never were that problematic.

It all started going bad when Sabine added 1 instant damage to any mine or bomb, at any range, for the whole game.

Mmmm gne. Adv. Slam+Bombs break the slam. We will see how many bomber K wing we'll see after the nerf.

And I mean, using bombs. Ordnance K still good.

2 minutes ago, Cerve said:

Mmmm gne. Adv. Slam+Bombs break the slam. We will see how many bomber K wing we'll see after the nerf.

And I mean, using bombs. Ordnance K still good.

The K-wing was supposed to be a bombing ship. It was fine while it could SLAM and bomb and deal with the damage that the bomb could deal. If Sabine hadn't been introduced, the K-wing would have kept the niche it had during Wave 7.
Nerfing Advanced SLAM to allow only actions on the upgrade bar means killing the whole point of the K-wing. The K-wing has a terrible dial without SLAM, and it has no chance to equip Advanced Sensors or Genius to help it deliver bombs, so it will stop being used for bombs totally, unless you equip Experimental interface, that stresses you.
Why would a K-wing want Advanced SLAM for? It cannot attack after SLAMming, unlike the Gunboat, and it has 1 green dice, so not much point on focusing for defense.
It has no koiograns to turn around, so it cannot take a Target Lock and hope for a ordnance attack next round because it will need to use SLAM again to perform a double 2-turn, and then it cannot attack.
They are destroying an entire ship instead of just fixing Sabine.

7 hours ago, Lobokai said:

Looking at the YT2400 and the Scurrg, similar stats but if properly scaled the Scurrg should be the more massive of the two. Why did they scale it down?

Maybe, just as with the Mega Star Destroyer Supremacy, the 22m figure was looked at, and they clarified that it was the ship's longest dimension - which in this case is width.

If it's 22m wide rather than long - would that mean the model is almost exactly to scale?

26 minutes ago, Azrapse said:

The K-wing was supposed to be a bombing ship. It was fine while it could SLAM and bomb and deal with the damage that the bomb could deal. If Sabine hadn't been introduced, the K-wing would have kept the niche it had during Wave 7.
Nerfing Advanced SLAM to allow only actions on the upgrade bar means killing the whole point of the K-wing. The K-wing has a terrible dial without SLAM, and it has no chance to equip Advanced Sensors or Genius to help it deliver bombs, so it will stop being used for bombs totally, unless you equip Experimental interface, that stresses you.
Why would a K-wing want Advanced SLAM for? It cannot attack after SLAMming, unlike the Gunboat, and it has 1 green dice, so not much point on focusing for defense.
It has no koiograns to turn around, so it cannot take a Target Lock and hope for a ordnance attack next round because it will need to use SLAM again to perform a double 2-turn, and then it cannot attack.
They are destroying an entire ship instead of just fixing Sabine.

No, Sabine is not the problem, the mechanic itself is the problem. Sabine just boost the damage, but a normal Cluster without her should kill any nible Ace anyway.

The mechanic it's broken. No bomber in this game can drop a bomb directly in your head without nothing that you can do. It's nocive for the game itself, it's a thing that leave the opponent with no answers at all. You can just move, move and drop, and your opponent can't do nothing to avoid it.

do you see Sabine in other contest than the K? No, I wonder why...it's the mechanic itself to be broken and unhealthly for the game.

Sabine just pushed people to think about bombs, she doesn't makes all the bombs broken. Put sabine in the other factions and she will totally fine.

I think a lot of this noise about Miranda-Nym and DenNym will be gone when the next two Waves drop. With the ability to launch a bomb out to "5" the collective minds will go insane.

I also think that the Miranda-Nym build is one of those builds that is relatively easy to fly. Which is one reason it's seen "everywhere". Another being it's the newest thing as mentioned elsewhere.

Another reason for the hate is it's one of the few builds that is dangerous both in front of and behind it. With Miranda being able to slam-drop and Nym using Genius and his ability, charging headlong is not a good idea. Neither is a stern chase. Add in the much despised TLT with its R3 reach and you have the perfect recipe for pages and pages of nerf and hate.

With all that, I think players are not thinking creatively when it comes to counters for these builds. This is one place where out of the box thinking is required. More brain and less knee-jerk b******g.

2 hours ago, Ironlord said:

If it's 22m wide rather than long - would that mean the model is almost exactly to scale?

It’s span is 33 meters, as per Jedi Starfighter.

Outrider’s span is 28.5 meters as per WEG.

Ive not found anything that contradicts those stats. Also its no faster or more manueverable than a Y-Wing, why it gets a 5 and a talon is beyond me

(added pic to OP)

The HWK got resized because its "true" length in screenshots, differed from its "official" length.

Maybe something similar happened with the Scurrg? If the cockpit looked far too cramped in game or comic images to match the official size, FFG might have chosen to resize it.

FFG gets the dimensions from Lucasfilm. Except they probably lost the file on the Resistance Bomber...

11 hours ago, DR4CO said:

Making it a large base would be a buff, as the effects of boost and roll on it would be amplified. Nym's bombs would have even more reach and the missiles would be harder to avoid.

Also, it is actually a pretty reasonable ship in and of itself. It's only mildly more point-efficient than a B-wing (which is already somewhat inefficient), and the dial is average at best (it's an E-wing but worse). The problems come from the fact Bomblet exists and the Havoc title giving it an unrestricted Sensor slot (and the EPT, but IMO that's more of a flow-on problem from the other two). Take the infinite bombs out of the equation and either take away the System slot or lock it to 2 points or less and we're fine.

Scum nym being a large base would be a nerf, since you'd no longer be able to hit a ship you bumped in front of you witha bomblet drop.

Is the ship's scale off (1:abc) or is not to scale relative to stats (i.e. it has more hull and shield than some large base ships)?