We had this weird question on Sunday about punishing strike and conditions apply through command card (like toxic dart)
A good question.
Thematically Toxic Dart probably would. The command card is played on a figure. However, the ability does not refer to "you" applying the condition. On the other hand, you choose a figure to gain the condition.
Abilities like Unnerving and Force Lightning certainly would qualify for the wording, although they are not attacks.
Then, why "your figures applies" if other than attacks qualify? Why not "a hostile figure gains a harmful condition"? The "your figures applies" is needed to exclude a figure using To the Limit and gaining a harmful condition itself, or in 4-p skirmish another player's figures causing other figures to gain harmful conditions.
So, I don't really know.
I think it's no, you can't use PS in this case
The trigger for PS is "when one your figure applies a harmful condition", but when you use toxic card it's "the command card applies a harmful condition". Your figure itself didn't really apply that condition, right?
In other words, the weakened condition came from playing the command card, it didn't really came from "your figure". On top of that toxic dart simply says "during your activation" which makes no mention of "the weakened condition came from your figure"
I would say yes, it does.
Toxic Dart refers to "your activation".
I.e. the Figure whose activation it is. (not the player)
The Hunter or Smuggler Figure that is using the card is performing the ability, so it is "your figure" applying the effects of the card.
1 hour ago, Majushi said:I would say yes, it does.
Toxic Dart refers to "your activation".
I.e. the Figure whose activation it is. (not the player)
The Hunter or Smuggler Figure that is using the card is performing the ability, so it is "your figure" applying the effects of the card.
Yes but I'm saying just because the condition was applied during your activation does not necessarily means you (the figure) applied the condition
Let's take an relatively outrageous example (I don't think anything like this exists currently): after the figure opens this door, everyone within 5 space gets stunned. I activate my figure, say a stormtrooper to open this door and stunning 10 of your figures. Did I (the figure, stormtrooper) apply the condition? No I didn't, that was done by opening the door
Same thing here, just because I played a command card during one my figure's activation doesn't mean my figure was the one weakened your guy. That was done by playing the command card
duplicate
Edited by Majushi1 hour ago, ricope said:Yes but I'm saying just because the condition was applied during your activation does not necessarily means you (the figure) applied the condition
Let's take an relatively outrageous example (I don't think anything like this exists currently): after the figure opens this door, everyone within 5 space gets stunned. I activate my figure, say a stormtrooper to open this door and stunning 10 of your figures. Did I (the figure, stormtrooper) apply the condition? No I didn't, that was done by opening the door
Same thing here, just because I played a command card during one my figure's activation doesn't mean my figure was the one weakened your guy. That was done by playing the command card
My point was that the command card is played "by the figure".
It's "your figures" activation. That figure is a Hunter or Smuggler.
That figure is performing the effects of the card, and therefore "you figure" is targeting a figure within 3 spaces and line of sight to suffer 1 strain and become weakened.
You're not drawing LOS from the player are you? It's clear the "you" in Toxic Dart is referring to the figure not the player.
Although I see your point I would still have to respectfully disagree: The way I read it it's simply "BAM a hostile figure within 3 space gets weaken". You could argue that "well it is the figure's activation so we deduct the figure must have performed that ability, causing the hostile figure to become weakened", but nowhere in Toxic dart says YOU (the figure) applied the harmful condition, which is the requirement to trigger PS
Also using Toxic dart is not really an ability as well: "use during your activation" so that's why I read it RAW as "yep, that just happened" even though yes thematically it should be "because the figure shot you with a toxic dart"
Really I can see this going both way: maybe send a rule inquiry to FFG?
1 hour ago, ricope said:Although I see your point I would still have to respectfully disagree: The way I read it it's simply "BAM a hostile figure within 3 space gets weaken". You could argue that "well it is the figure's activation so we deduct the figure must have performed that ability, causing the hostile figure to become weakened", but nowhere in Toxic dart says YOU (the figure) applied the harmful condition, which is the requirement to trigger PS
Also using Toxic dart is not really an ability as well: "use during your activation" so that's why I read it RAW as "yep, that just happened" even though yes thematically it should be "because the figure shot you with a toxic dart"
Really I can see this going both way: maybe send a rule inquiry to FFG?
I'm no skirmish expert, so it's certainly possibly your interpretation is correct. A rule inquiry to FFG seems appropriate.
That said, in my mind it's pretty clear the card is being used by the figure, not it's player. (to use your term; nowhere in Toxic Dart says YOU (the player) )
It needs a specific type of figure (smuggler or hunter) and requires it to be played in such a figure's activation and requires LOS from that figure. (all indicators to me that the figure is the one using the ability on the card, not the player controlling the figure)
It's certainly not a case of BAM and it's done. I'm inferring the use of the card based on what is ON the card. You are basing it on what is NOT.
<sarcasm> since it doesn't clarify if you have to be hopping on one leg when playing the card I assume we can infer that you must? </sarcasm>
I am with Majushi. I am not a rule expert nor a skirmish expert and I know very often you have to take the rules as written even if they seem to be a bit strange. So ricope might be right.
However - thematically - to me it seems as if the figure is using the toxic dart to shot it at an enemy. Therefore the figure is applying the strain and the condition. If you say it's not the figure but the card how do you handle e.g. "Crush" ( Use when you end your movement in spaces that contain one or more other figures. Choose one of those figures that is small. That figure suffers 4 dmg ) if we let’s say enhance it and say " then that figure becomes stunned "? Did the massive figure apply the damage and the condition? Or the card? Again, to me - thematically - it should be the figure. Otherwise we could also argue that the standard weapon of the figure is applying damage and conditions and not the figure itself (to me toxic dart is sort of an additional attack with different weapon that doesn't require an action).
But as mentioned before I am trying to interpret things in a thematically way...which is not necessarily correct
On 27.9.2017 at 7:31 AM, ricope said:Although I see your point I would still have to respectfully disagree: The way I read it it's simply "BAM a hostile figure within 3 space gets weaken".
If there is more than one eligible figure within 3 spaces, who chooses which figure suffers the strain and becomes weakened?
Usually, the figure who's ability it is.
Edited by a1bertAccording to the IACP this does indeed work, due to the bullet in the RRG: "When playing a Cc that lists a trait, figure name, and/or affiliation icon, it is used by a single figure that matches all of these restrictions." p8.
I think it's still a bit ambigious.
On 3/28/2020 at 8:13 PM, aermet69 said:According to the IACP this does indeed work, due to the bullet in the RRG: "When playing a Cc that lists a trait, figure name, and/or affiliation icon, it is used by a single figure that matches all of these restrictions." p8.
I think it's still a bit ambigious.
I think the fact that " it is used by " clarifies is perfectly.