Somebody has to be the low PS guy with no special ability. Unless it’s a small base ship with Sabine as a pilot, then there’s no generic. Or the ARC.
what doesn’t make sense any more is TWO generics per ship type with neither one having an EPT. Red Squadron pilots and Obsidians only exist to try to out-PS rookies and Academies. And not be Predator fodder. Black Eight really got screwed. It’s caused 25% of the pilot cards to never be used. Come on FFG give use some reasons to use these guys!
8 minutes ago, Astech said:2. Make reinforcements a core mechanic for the game. Something along the lines of "If at least 1 friendly non-unique ship was destroyed this last turn, you may deploy 1 PS1 z-95/Scyk/TIE fighter (faction dependent) inside your setup area outside range 3 of all ships already in play". This would mean that swarms lose via attrition a lot slower, and maintain a lot more firepower after being PS-sniped.
As-is, there is almost never a good reason to take a non-ghost generic over a named pilot with an EPT.
Reinforcement as a title for non-unique ships. Once this ship is destroyed deploy so-n-so ship just like the original set up stage. Don’t know the cost or how to balance it, the Nashta Pup is the only thing comparable and no one uses that.
Edited by GrimmyV1 hour ago, Astech said:There is almost never a good reason to take a non-ghost generic over a named pilot with an EPT
How wrong could you be? UK Nationals (280+ players) was literally just won by three generics a week ago...
Edited by FTS GeckoGenerics had their use back in the day when there were fewer named pilots and combos. These days the ship is less important than abillities and cards, therefor only some generics will still see use
6 minutes ago, GrimmyV said:Reinforcement as a title for non-unique ships. Once this ship is destroyed deploy so-n-so ship just like the original set up stage. Don’t know the cost or how to balance it, the Nashta Pup is the only thing comparable and no one uses that.
I've had alot of thoughts about this kind of thing as an Imp fix, it would basically go something like:
Mod, x points, must have PS4 or higher, imperial only, may equip one additional mod costing 0 points: when you are destroyed, at the beginning of the next round, deploy a copy of the lowest pilot skill non-unique pilot whose ship name matches yours, within range 1 of your board edge. It has all your non-unique upgrades for which it meets the requirements. That ship does not count towards Margin of Victory calculations.
Important points:
- It deploys the following round, to allow the opponent a chance to table you and not have the reinforcements arrive.
- It gets your upgrades, so it's usable on Punishers, Bombers etc.
- It counts towards Final Salvo, but not MoV, so you can still be beaten if you *only* have reinforcements left, and your whole initial list is dead, or if your only remaining ships are worth less than your opponent's, but they have a real reason to kill the reinforcements.
It probably needs some refinement though. And good lord is it getting silly how many fixes you have to take account of when designing something like this. Maybe making it a title would be better, but then you have to take account fo the other titles, too.
11 hours ago, Stoneface said:When Fat Turrets were a thing...
Priceless ?
Clearly a lot of generics are way overcosted by now. At the point whe've arrived now, I think the only fixing possibility is a revamp of ship prices. Too bad FFG isn't on that boat...
3 minutes ago, Giledhil said:Clearly a lot of generics are way overcosted by now. At the point whe've arrived now, I think the only fixing possibility is a revamp of ship prices. Too bad FFG isn't on that boat...
Seriously, I'd really, really like to see the next FAQ just be a complete re-pricing of more or less everything. It seems like the only rational way to rebalance the game adequately.
11 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:
You have a last name Guy.....
One of my favouritist movies ever.
12 hours ago, Fippo said:Considering the typical squad size is between 2-4 ships, it would make alot more sense if all pilots had a name...
I do like 5-ship squads, though!
50 minutes ago, GrimmyV said:reinforcement as a title for non-unique ships. Once this ship is destroyed deploy so-n-so ship just like the original set up stage. Don’t know the cost or how to balance it, the Nashta Pup is the only thing comparable and no one uses that.
This is a question of points cost, thought - reinforcement mechanics are a common bit in scenarios and are useful for generic academy swarms in missions like Political Escort.
If, for example, any academy pilot had unlimited reinforcements in a standard game, that would probably be too good. Which means that somewhere between the two is an acceptable balance point.
It would be nice, I think - it would give Generic squads their 'edge' - numbers - back without meaning you had to deal with more than 8 ships on the board at once.
I would say that a Title would work rather nicely:
Endless Ranks
TITLE. SMALL SHIP ONLY
You may not equip this upgrade to a unique pilot.
When you would be destroyed, instead cancel
any remaining damage, discard all Damage cards and
all tokens and recover all shields. Remove this ship from
the play area and then place this ship within range 1 of
any board edge, beyond range 3 of any enemy ship, then
discard this card.
Imagine that it is (for example) 1 point, then a swarm of 8 TIE fighters could respawn 4 of them when they are destroyed.
The problem is how you balance it for heavier fighters; 4 B-wings with Fire Control Systems and this title would feel a bit too harsh, for example. A squad point cost limitation (or an increase in cost for a bigger fighter) might be in order.
Respawning TIE fighters - I don't think anyone would mind too much.
Respawning TIE Adv Prototypes - probably fine - especially if giving up TIE/v1 to get it.
Respawning Crack Shot Autothruster Saber Squadrons? pushing it.
Respawning T-70 X-wings, TLT Y-wings and Scurrgs - really a bit too much.
A nice thing is that quite a lot of heavy swarmers have an integral title - Adaptive Ailerons, Vaksai, 'Heavy Scyk', TIE Shuttle, TIE/v1.
As written it wouldn't re-equip missiles, so a regenerating missile salvo wouldn't be something you have to deal with.
Edited by Magnus GrendelGeneric are good for blocking strategies. They can also feed swarm leader with evade for reasonable cost. I think those " OP two ships lists" are less competitiv against many ships because they're ability often trigger once per round. So again , depending on the situation, they can have exelent potential .
1 hour ago, Astech said:Generics started being phased out when three things started happening:
1. Pilot abilities started getting really, really good. Until wave 7 the best abilities were Dash or maybe Howlrunner. Then you got Miranda, Dengar, Manaroo, etc.
2. People started realising how much the EPT slot did for a ship. Predator alone often doubles your damage output from every shot you fire. Even Snap Shot is a big boost in firepower.
3. As attacks became more and more powerful (probably culminating with either Dengar, Rey or Miranda homing missiles), the PS war became more and more important. At this point, taking a squad of generics that aren't on the calibre of Defenders, Ghosts or Decimators means that one of them will die before shooting, and possibly more in the case of TIEs and such.
There are a few ways to fix generics. The most obvious is by making them cheaper, but in tournaments it's just not feasible to play 10+ TIE fighters over 8 hours. You could also:
1. Give generics a large jousting buff. Something along the lines of "Non-Unique pilot only. Small ship only. | When attacking a target inside your firing arc, you may change 1 of your blank results to a [focus] result" would bring most generics in line with the power curve.
2. Make reinforcements a core mechanic for the game. Something along the lines of "If at least 1 friendly non-unique ship was destroyed this last turn, you may deploy 1 PS1 z-95/Scyk/TIE fighter (faction dependent) inside your setup area outside range 3 of all ships already in play". This would mean that swarms lose via attrition a lot slower, and maintain a lot more firepower after being PS-sniped.
As-is, there is almost never a good reason to take a non-ghost generic over a named pilot with an EPT.
Kind of. There's basically a hard cut-off point where the majority of generics just disappeared, and that's Wave 7.
TLT was too efficient against the likes of B-Wings and Z-95s, and Palpatine put the Palp Aces so far over the top on defences that even if you have multiple generic ships on target you'd struggle to deal damage. By the time you get as far as Wave 8 the only generics of any note are Contracted Scouts and Omicron Group Pilots
10 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:By the time you get as far as Wave 8 the only generics of any note are Contracted Scouts and Omicron Group Pilots
Green Squadron pilots can also be quite efficient when well used.But the double EpT makes them quite unique.
Apart from all those reasons, there is also something to be said for uniform squadrons. Feels so right!
12 minutes ago, Giledhil said:Green Squadron pilots can also be quite efficient when well used.But the double EpT makes them quite unique.
Yeah, and Black Squadron TIEs obv around as well, but the general shape of it is right. Wave 7 took generics out into the parking lot and made sure they knew that if they ever showed their face inside again they'd regret it.
47 minutes ago, DampfGecko said:Apart from all those reasons, there is also something to be said for uniform squadrons. Feels so right!
Especially for the Empire. Squads of three pilots each in a different ship - and for that matter in ships from a completely different era (TIE Adv. Prototype & TIE/sf, for example) just feel...wierd. And definitely wrong for a disciplined, conformity-obssessed empire.
2 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:How wrong could you be? UK Nationals (280+ players) was literally just won by three generics a week ago...
Note the 'almost'. The Ghost generic is incredibly impressive in its own right, due to the sheer jousting potential. Because of this, it can fit into a lot of builds quite effortlessly (with 40 free points, of course). Most other generics aren't so lucky - even the noble Warden Squadron Pilot has to have a list built around it.
Also, a single large event was won by a list of generics? Clearly, there are no problems with them then... 
1 hour ago, Stay On The Leader said:Kind of. There's basically a hard cut-off point where the majority of generics just disappeared, and that's Wave 7.
TLT was too efficient against the likes of B-Wings and Z-95s, and Palpatine put the Palp Aces so far over the top on defences that even if you have multiple generic ships on target you'd struggle to deal damage. By the time you get as far as Wave 8 the only generics of any note are Contracted Scouts and Omicron Group Pilots
I have to strongly disagree. There's still plenty of generics in the game that are very much able to compete at the highest level of play. Yes, there's more named pilots, but the state of generics as a whole isn't bad.
Can you guess what connects the following generics?
Contracted Scout
Kashyyyk Defender
Karthakk Pirate
Glaive squadron pilot
Rebel Operative
Omicron Group Pilot
Trandoshian Slaver
Academy & Black Squadron pilots
Binyare Pirate
Jakku Gunrunner
That's right, they all showed up in this season's major tournament* top cuts (and even won a couple!). And I probably missed a few, as I was going from my memory alone. On top of that, it's definitely not a full list of competitive generics. Lok Renevants, Syndicate Thugs and Sienar Operatives immediately come to mind.
*large nationals and continentals
Edited by ElavionThe highest non-TLT generic pilot on meta-wing this last month, other than Contracted Scout, comes in #33 (it's Wookiee Liberator, played in 0.3% of squads).
Edited by Stay On The Leader19 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:The highest non-TLT generic pilot on meta-wing this last month, other than Contracted Scout, comes in #33 (it's Wookiee Liberator, played in 0.3% of squads).
How about being more specific? Let's look for 11+ hp small ship generics costing 11 points or less 
my goodness, they're not even on the list!
Jokes aside, MA places way too much emphasis on popularity and completely disregards low occurrence lists. For example, if you manually analyse Quadzituck compared to 4SR you'll see that the first one has decent to exceptional results almost every time it shows up (literally 1 out of 14 showings with a negative W/L), whereas the latter has quite the number of very bad showings and it's performance to popularity ratio for large tournaments is average at best. Now guess which one places 34 positions higher in the ranking.
Generics are the backbone of list building in this game. Some of the most interesting and challenging - and often successful - lists I've run have been primarily generics. Maybe it's just my play style, but I don't like relying on a pilot skill that may or may not be useful (even the most useful ones can be co-opted or even ignored). I often only end up taking a named pilot to get a PS6+ ship out, but once you get used to the PS5- life, you learn to love it, and be oddly surprised these days when someone is shooting after you...
Seriously though, you can pry my 4x generic TIE Bombers from my cold, dead hands. I love that list because it's not fancy, unique, or full of special abilities.
15 hours ago, Fippo said:I have started to question generic pilots. Considering the typical squad size is between 2-4 ships, it would make alot more sense if all pilots had a name...
I think all pilots should have pilot abilities, but different amount of upgrade slots depending on PS.
Oh boy this question made me sad as a low PS player.
Generics allow for an unlimited number of purchases of a ship.
The only case study we have is the ARC, which has 4 named pilots and no generics.
Will anyone ever buy more than 4 for their collection?
No generics makes no business sense.
Also, Sabine's TIE. Technically the Phantom too, but that's not available separately. The ARC is neither alone, nor the first.
Why not put no generics in a pack that people are only ever going to buy one or two of anyway?
21 minutes ago, saturnflight said:Generics allow for an unlimited number of purchases of a ship.
Purchases of a ship are usually limited by how many can be fit into 100 points regardless, or how many can be fit into Epic for some.
