The predominant themes of the X-Wing forum seem to be:

○ _____ ship is broken.

○ _____ ship is unplayable.

○ _____ ship is stupid (hate the mouse).

○ _____ faction is too strong.

○ _____ faction is too weak.

○ _____ should be errata'd.

○ Seriously, we love errata talk.

○ _____ is DOA.

○ Is the game dying/dead/2.0-ready?

As a guy who plays a few times a month at home- trying out a bit of everything, with like-minded players- I come here to see what interesting combos are available to ships, what new synergy has arisen, how to load out an odd ship I don't have much experience with... and all I see is hate and suffering.

Now I have played enough games competitively to understand the irritation that comes from facing the same overwhelming and un-fun strategies every week... but there's a game beneath that layer of competitive play, and coming here you wouldn't think anyone was enjoying it anymore.

I used to visit this forum daily. Now it's about once a week. It just seems like there's nothing for me- a casual player who still loves the game- in this place. Is the general discussion area not the right place for a guy like me? Are the contentious topics just too hot for anything else to stay on the front page? Is this community really as jaded as it seems?

As a competitive player, I agree.

The List Building sub is at least decent. Avoids much of the negativity of the forum (although it still filters through) but provides decent, on topic advice.

But, it's generally only good to go in you're looking at lists.

The painting/customs sub is decent as well.

I too used to visit this forum much more than I do now because the topics just dont interest me when they're all centered on the competitive aspect (although I do play competitively as well), however I feel there are reasons why this came to be.

When I first came to this forum a few years back, I had 9 friends on here that we're casual players and would visit everyday. Eight of this friends haven't visited this forum in almost a year now. Guys like Darthmeanie will post casual/epic topics still but they fall off the front page quickly. There just isn't enough casual players to keep the topics relevant. Why? I think FFG has alot to do with it. When I first bought this game, to me at least it was advertised as a simple cool game to pickup and play with your friend. Now with all the releases out it's added alot of complexity to the game, which attracts competitive players and turns off people looking for a more casual pick up and play game. Also I think alot of casual players were originally attracted by the more iconic ships, which alot could use some help now. The competitive meta affects even those who just go to their lgs looking for a friendly game or two. Until more official support for casual (new simplified gameplay, mission book, etc) the forums will be lopsided towards competitive players and topics such as fixes to bring in a more diverse meta.

As for "jaded" players posting negative topics, I think alot of them are our fellow casual player, trying to release some of the frustrations I listed above.

Note: I love both competitive and casual aspects of this game.

5 minutes ago, Evenflow30 said:

There just isn't enough casual players to keep the topics relevant. Why? I think FFG has alot to do with it. When I first bought this game, to me at least it was advertised as a simple cool game to pickup and play with your friend. Now with all the releases out it's added alot of complexity to the game, which attracts competitive players and turns off people looking for a more casual pick up and play game. Until there's more official support for casual (new simplified gameplay, mission book, etc) the forums will be lopsided towards competitive players and topics such as fixes to bring in a more diverse meta.

As for "jaded" players posting negative topics, I think alot of them are our fellow casual player, trying to release some of the frustrations I listed above.

Note: I love both competitive and casual aspects of this game.

It goes without saying that the game's creators could take actions that might change the forum's tone.

But it's a lot more important for players to remember that, ultimately, they (and the communities they play with) are responsible for their experience with the game.

Do any of the local tournament organizers modify scenarios to appeal to their locals? Do the players address the guy who brings the same overpowered list every week? Do they address their own instinct to 'keep up' at the expense of playing what they want to?

55 minutes ago, saturnflight said:

I used to visit this forum daily. Now it's about once a week. It just seems like there's nothing for me- a casual player who still loves the game- in this place. Is the general discussion area not the right place for a guy like me? Are the contentious topics just too hot for anything else to stay on the front page? Is this community really as jaded as it seems?

as someone who started to post more and more in recent months: the last 2-3 weeks were a bit strange and void of interesting threads, as if something changed after NOVA. Maybe it was the double preview on wave 12 and 13 within such short time, maybe the competitive season is over?

I would stear clear of the main forum for now, maybe visit the squad building and painting/mods subforums.

As far as I'm concerned:

The nationals thread was interesting for some time. The one on imps being wiped out is just wrong, so I should have stayed clear of that one. Netlisting is an interesting topic, but so far the opinions are "I don't and it's stupid" versus "I do and you have no right to judge". I should have stayed out of that one, too. And the rotation thread is interesting to discuss, but has no point in the end. There too I should have stayed out.
@Timathius had some great insight into the marketing. But I didn't, so should not have posted.

So with that realization I will lurk a bit more and post a bit less to not make the problem worse myself.

Same, man. There's just nothing here that's worth engaging these days.

27 minutes ago, Kreen said:

The List Building sub is at least decent. Avoids much of the negativity of the forum (although it still filters through) but provides decent, on topic advice.

But, it's generally only good to go in you're looking at lists.

The painting/customs sub is decent as well.

Done some more browsing of the list building sub, and there's more theorycrafting by individual ship than I expected. That's a good referral, thanks Kreen!

I admit, I'm a bit torn.

On the one hand: The people ******* and moaning are not completely wrong. There certainly are malbalances and hiccups in the game. They tend to get drastically overstated, but I am inclined to agree that between players of absolutely equal skill, especially waaay down and at the absolute top, there are specific combos that provide massive benefits or are auto-includes. Yes, absolutely, that is there.

On the other hand: I could. Not. Agree. More. So many threads turn into a whiner takeover after what feels like seconds. I almost exclusively play Empire, and I have yet to face a list that I felt could not be outmaneuvred. That is to say, you mostly outmaneuvre your opponent, and this mind game is alive, well, and kicking people in the nether regions (including myself) every game I play. The amount of games where both "fly better" and "fly casual" did not apply are almost nonexistent, and I experiment with stupid builds. A lot.

I feel everyone has blamed dice for something at some point, and I am certainly no saint in that regard. But when I win or lose, not only does one have to be a massive **** for me to not have fun, it's almost always the maneuvres that were telling the outcome in hindsight. I have played, and witnessed, far worse. Even two double falcon lists against each other favour the player that plays the environment to his advantage most of the time. Even Nym has to set his maneuvre at the start of the turn.

The term "overpowered" in this game can too often be boiled down to "forgives more mistakes". Could it be better? Absolutely. It is fine to man the walls against unfair influences.But we are not just doing that, we are setting the city on fire ourselves. And that is just overdoing it.

Edit: Gotta chuckle about all these asterisks up there. Steam blown, I'm gonna chill now

There is quite a lot of s**tposting going on at the moment - mostly from the usual suspects - and it's definitely dragging the forum down for some.

There IS an ignore function, of course.

1 minute ago, FTS Gecko said:

There is quite a lot of s**tposting going on at the moment - mostly from the usual suspects - and it's definitely dragging the forum down for some.

There IS an ignore function, of course.

It takes a high level of investment in the community to properly identify who should be ignored and who is merely expressing a concern or blowing off steam.

42 minutes ago, Timathius said:

As a competitive player, I agree.

As do I, this forum is pretty trash. The complaints are over the top and any minuscule balance issue is treated like its the size of the moon.

29 minutes ago, Evenflow30 said:

The competitive meta affects even those who just go to their lgs looking for a friendly game or two. Until more official support for casual (new simplified gameplay, mission book, etc) the forums will be lopsided towards competitive players and topics such as fixes to bring in a more diverse meta.

I do not think it would help, the vast majority of negativity is coming from a very vocal small group of players. Most of the complaint and fix threads are completely unwarranted in casual or competitive play. Those same people will continue to post just as much as now. Most of the people i know who play the game competitively or casual swear off these forums because of just how bad the forums are when it comes to whinny complaining. There is also a group of casual players who shout down anything to do with competitive play that are not helping the feel of the forum either.

Yeah, staying out of the main area is best. I'm considering taking a lot vacation from the main area myself. I enjoy the Battle Reports area as well @saturnflight as it can have some pretty interesting stuff tucked in there.

By the by, I took a look at Reddit as an alternative to this forum. Don't. It looks so much worse over there.

1 hour ago, saturnflight said:

The predominant themes of the X-Wing forum seem to be:

○ _____ ship is broken.

○ _____ ship is unplayable.

○ _____ ship is stupid (hate the mouse).

○ _____ faction is too strong.

○ _____ faction is too weak.

○ _____ should be errata'd.

○ Seriously, we love errata talk.

○ _____ is DOA.

○ Is the game dying/dead/2.0-ready?

seems like your ability to read the forums is not only fine but also quite comprehensive

Just now, saturnflight said:

It takes a high level of investment in the community to properly identify who should be ignored and who is merely expressing a concern or blowing off steam.

True. And some of the culprits are so vociferous that whacking them on the ignore list will end up disrupting a lot of topics.

Of course, this IS the internet, so haters gon' hate; best you can do is shrug it off, stay positive and engage the posters and topics which interest you.

1 minute ago, FTS Gecko said:

There is quite a lot of s**tposting going on at the moment - mostly from the usual suspects - and it's definitely dragging the forum down for some.

There IS an ignore function, of course.

To reset my carmatic balance a bit- I'm gonna be honest, apart from the usual nagging (which is, I should point out, the norm for miniature games, take from that what you will) the X-Wing community is amazing.

For every sh*tpost there is one with acutally interesting thoughts, the overwhelming majority is very civilised and give honor to whom honor is due. Bottom line, even most moaners moan because they care. Don't take that for granted, people. Stay classy.

3 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

Yeah, staying out of the main area is best. I'm considering taking a lot vacation from the main area myself. I enjoy the Battle Reports area as well @saturnflight as it can have some pretty interesting stuff tucked in there.

By the by, I took a look at Reddit as an alternative to this forum. Don't. It looks so much worse over there.

I did that recently as well. *shudder*

Threads like these are why I started looking at the forums in the first place. I enjoy seeing discussions on how to improve tactical decision making, but they are few and far between. This one is only five hours old and is already almost off the page.

I can understand people wanting the game to be better, but it certainly sounds like almost nobody on here is content with the game that's been provided and it does irritate me.

7 minutes ago, DampfGecko said:

I admit, I'm a bit torn.

On the one hand: The people ******* and moaning are not completely wrong. There certainly are malbalances and hiccups in the game. They tend to get drastically overstated, but I am inclined to agree that between players of absolutely equal skill, especially waaay down and at the absolute top, there are specific combos that provide massive benefits or are auto-includes. Yes, absolutely, that is there.

On the other hand: I could. Not. Agree. More. So many threads turn into a whiner takeover after what feels like seconds. I almost exclusively play Empire, and I have yet to face a list that I felt could not be outmaneuvred. That is to say, you mostly outmaneuvre your opponent, and this mind game is alive, well, and kicking people in the nether regions (including myself) every game I play. The amount of games where both "fly better" and "fly casual" did not apply are almost nonexistent, and I experiment with stupid builds. A lot.

I feel everyone has blamed dice for something at some point, and I am certainly no saint in that regard. But when I win or lose, not only does one have to be a massive **** for me to not have fun, it's almost always the maneuvres that were telling the outcome in hindsight. I have played, and witnessed, far worse. Even two double falcon lists against each other favour the player that plays the environment to his advantage most of the time. Even Nym has to set his maneuvre at the start of the turn.

The term "overpowered" in this game can too often be boiled down to "forgives more mistakes". Could it be better? Absolutely. It is fine to man the walls against unfair influences.But we are not just doing that, we are setting the city on fire ourselves. And that is just overdoing it.

Edit: Gotta chuckle about all these asterisks up there. Steam blown, I'm gonna chill now

This is where I'm at too. Shutting down the valid concerns should never be how a community stays happy. But, there are those who take those concerns too far. I wish the excitement for wave 13 could have been more uplifting, but it sadly didn't have those results. And I'll admit, I've taken it too far myself. Need to take a chill pill plenty of times, but don't.

It's a wacky situation we're in, but d@mn it, I'm still having fun in my local group. While I still want things to improve in upper level meta, I still got my weeknight games to look forward to.

1 minute ago, FTS Gecko said:

True. And some of the culprits are so vociferous that whacking them on the ignore list will end up disrupting a lot of topics.

Of course, this IS the internet, so haters gon' hate; best you can do is shrug it off, stay positive and engage the posters and topics which interest you.

That's my real issue, I guess. I read forums for several games. I'm super active in the HeroClix community. I'm no stranger to complaints and grievances. And I can certainly handle haters in topics. But I just don't see conversations even starting from a good place here. There's nothing getting derailed; no one's even laying the track.

6 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

There is quite a lot of s**tposting going on at the moment - mostly from the usual suspects - and it's definitely dragging the forum down for some.

There IS an ignore function, of course.

If you ignore me, I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine...

I agree that the forum has been taken down a lot, but I think I’d still like to see what everyone has to say. Also, I’m a 100% casual player, so I actually find a lot of the doom and gloom talk to be humorous! And the trolls are the best part! Big shoutout to @SaltMaster 5000 -the few weeks he was here were some of the best weeks of this forum (from a comedic perspective)!

6 minutes ago, RebelRogue said:

Threads like these are why I started looking at the forums in the first place. I enjoy seeing discussions on how to improve tactical decision making, but they are few and far between. This one is only five hours old and is already almost off the page.

I can understand people wanting the game to be better, but it certainly sounds like almost nobody on here is content with the game that's been provided and it does irritate me.

Maybe a year ago, I came here and laid bare that I was self-identifying as a terrible player, and needed help. The resulting discussion was illuminating, and I still follow the advice I gained there.

It's hard to imagine that topic lasting long now.

2 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

This is where I'm at too. Shutting down the valid concerns should never be how a community stays happy. But, there are those who take those concerns too far. I wish the excitement for wave 13 could have been more uplifting, but it sadly didn't have those results. And I'll admit, I've taken it too far myself. Need to take a chill pill plenty of times, but don't.

It's a wacky situation we're in, but d@mn it, I'm still having fun in my local group. While I still want things to improve in upper level meta, I still got my weeknight games to look forward to.

Actually, what I find most humerous are all the "Firespray/T-65/ underpowered ship of the month wins Store Championship" threads on this forum. Nothing highlights the cherrypicking more than that. The absolute worst of problems occur on the outmost edges of the skill curve, and in personal blind spots (got someone in my local group that is an absolute beast with blaster turrets, but has not once won with TLT- some opposite world I live in, I know).

And man, weekend X-Wing with friends is the absolute best.

14 minutes ago, DampfGecko said:

Actually, what I find most humerous are all the "Firespray/T-65/ underpowered ship of the month wins Store Championship" threads on this forum. Nothing highlights the cherrypicking more than that. The absolute worst of problems occur on the outmost edges of the skill curve, and in personal blind spots (got someone in my local group that is an absolute beast with blaster turrets, but has not once won with TLT- some opposite world I live in, I know).

And man, weekend X-Wing with friends is the absolute best.

A Blaster Turret meta? Wow... that’s like an alternate universe based solely on Wave III! I wish my local store was like that! (I almost only ever play TIE Bombers!)

Just now, Kieransi said:

A Blaster Turret meta? Wow... that’s like an alternate universe based solely on Wave III! I wish my local store was like that! (I almost only ever play TIE Bombers!)

The player I'm talking about is a hyper-aggressive Wishbone fanatic that hates how costly turrets are. Then he discovered Kavil and Attani

We usually butt heads extremely up close, and let each other eat focus fire. He absolutely dispises Captain Oicunn, because he can never seem to quite stay clear of him.

Also, it seems whenever he fires that darn turret, the dice god smiles upon him. I believe with a choice like that, he deserves it- were it not for the fact that Winged Gundark throwing blanks seems to be my spirit animal lately.