Empire MSU Critique

By Messi22, in Star Wars: Armada Fleet Builds

The idea with this fleet is to pack some serious punch with the dual GSD and then get out. I have used it a lot lately and it has proven to be viable. However, this fleet (For me anyway) ONLY works if I go as player 1. My bid before was at 25, but I was at a local store championship where everyone had aces so I gave my raider Agent Kallus and a titel upgrade. The squadron combo follows the raider around which makes them even harder to kill meanwhile the Gonzantis rely from random positions. Everything is deployed around the entire play area.

What do you guys think of this field? I would really like some input concerning the squadrons!

When yaw is life
Author: Messi22

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 381/400

Commander: Moff Jerjerrod

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Intel Sweep

Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points)
- Instigator ( 4 points)
- Agent Kallus ( 3 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Flechette Torpedoes ( 3 points)
= 58 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
= 23 total ship cost

[ flagship ] Gladiator I-Class Star Destroyer (56 points)
- Moff Jerjerrod ( 23 points)
- Insidious ( 3 points)
- Intel Officer ( 7 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)
= 106 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
= 23 total ship cost

Gladiator I-Class Star Destroyer (56 points)
- Demolisher ( 10 points)
- Intel Officer ( 7 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)
= 90 total ship cost

1 "Mauler" Mithel ( 15 points)
1 JumpMaster 5000 ( 12 points)
1 Soontir Fel ( 18 points)
1 Lambda-class Shuttle ( 15 points)
1 Maarek Steele ( 21 points)

5 ships is hard on the edge of being a MSU list. It will work against 4 ship lists, but as soon as the opponent list has as well 5 ships, you are losing nearly all the bonus of going in last/first with the GSD. And this means as well that you lose the bonus of the high bid.
This fleet is missing some punsh. Something that can deal the damage. Two GSD can deal a good damage, when they can get in. But they are also really weak in eating damage. The two GSD are nearly 200 points, half of the fleet. And they can be one shot by any VSD, ISD, MC80. You are losing quite a lot of the damage when this happens.
The Raider I is not really build for ship combat. It is set for anti squadron fight (this one is good).

I would reduce some of the upgrades from the GSDs to make them not this important anymore. Kick the Intel (i know they are great, but they are as well 14 points) and maybe even the engine techs. You can use the GSD with these tools when they are a backup for another combat ship like an ISD, VSD or Interdictor. But not when they are you main damage source. In this case you want to keep it cheap and simple.
These GSD are to fragile to count fully on these.

About the squadrons (always a part for discussions with me :D): 81 points is already a lot (for a "blocklist"). I guess you will only use them to bind the enemy squadrons (with support from the raider). Maybe even use Mauler to deal some damage with the jumpmaster. But the synergy is not really good right now. You need some protection for Mauler and the Jumpmaster when you want to do it this way. And even when Sontir is working well with this synergy, i would maybe change him for Zertik. 15 points for 5 hull with two brace and the important escort is just to good for this. Without any escort, the whole combo of Jumpmaster and Mauler is failing against a real squadron list. And against a low squadron list it does not matter.

You should always ask yourself the question: what could the opponent have in squadrons.
1st): non. In this case you have Stele. And a few squadrons for a few blue dice that are not really a threat for ships. But basically you are missing 60 points in the ship fight (plus the 19 point bid).
2nd): a few (10 - 40 points). These are easy to handle for this list. You might lose a few, but you keep the shuttle and stele for the ship fight.
3rd): same as you (around 50-100 points and maybe a bit support). This will be a hard matchup, but here you want (and have to) use Mauler more than once. And with the current setup it might not happen. Mauler will be a one shot trick.
4th): Heavy squadron(110+ and support). Against something like this, these squadrons will not win a fight. They only are able to delay it and maybe kill a few key squadrons from the opponent that will make it easier after the squadron fight (relay, Nora, Stele, ...).

Your list will work best against the 2nd setup. In combination with the Raider as well against the 3rd. But against 1st you have to many useless squadrons (combined with dead upgrades on the raider) and against 4th you will get owned, no matter what.
Changing Sontir for Zertik will help in 1st and 3rd setup. He is good against ships with the black die and the reroll. And he is protecting Mauler and the Jumpmaster for more than one effect attack. On top he has 3 red dice with a reroll chance. For the 4th is does not change anything. But it can delay the squadron fight even longer (something you really want with this list).

Last part: the missions. You do not want contested Outpost with this list. Your ships cannot hold the outpost and you do not have enough command dials for it.
When you use a shuttle, take a mission that can make use of the strategic (or upgrade the shuttle to jendon). This means Fire Lanes, Ion Cannon or VIP for the yellow mission. Or maybe even Jamming Barrier, to protect your ship and being able to get into close range.
For the blue mission the Intel Sweep is ok. Or test out the sensor net. With 5 ships and one strategic you can get more than 75 points out of this.
The red one is perfect, and the only other choice that can be used would be Opening Salvo. To make the Gozanti really dangerous :P. But Most Wanted is for this list already really great.

Thank you so much for the construtive input Tokra! I really have a lot to think about now. I get your scepticisme regarding the GSD's acting as the main damage source, however my kill count is really high where I tend to destroy ISD's in 3 attacks. Furthermore, Engine techs have proven for me to be the difference between ending your movement in a ISD's front arc or just managing to get on the side. I would be to afraid to play without it.

Thanks so much for the squadron input I will have to make some changes there! Is the raider in your opinion a silly ship to bring along or?

Concering the objetives I do not expect to go as second, however my objetives are picked to trick my opponent. In intel sweep I pick one of my Gonzantis as objetive ship and then I use them as bait. Tried it four times now and worked everytime. I lost my objetive ship, however it was worth the cost since I destroyed most of my opponents fleet! :)
In regards to Contestet outpost, the same logic applies. I merely fly a Gonzanti to the station, whereas in my experience, people with big ships pick it due to them thinking, that idiot can't win this objetive. My idea is not to win any points on it, it is to direct their ships to the station so it makes my job a 1000 times easier to flank them with my GSD and boom. So far, my experience has been pretty good.

1 hour ago, Messi22 said:

Thanks so much for the squadron input I will have to make some changes there! Is the raider in your opinion a silly ship to bring along or?

The Raider, with Kallus, Ordnance and Flechette, is a great ship against squadrons. Sadly the opponent does know this as well. And will either stay out of the way or just destroy it.
It is way better when you have 5+ ships. In this case you might be able to jump in at the end of the turn and activate first in the next, and take out the opponents whole squadron turn (with a bit luck).

But with only 4 ships you need some good timing. And you have to protect the ship. The problem is that the Raider is extremely fragile against squadrons. They can take it out really fast.

And, last but not least, these are a lot of wasted (or nearly wasted) points when the opponent does not have any squadrons, or just a low block list. The Raider alone is still a ship, but without anti ship upgrades not this dangerous.

1 hour ago, Messi22 said:

Concering the objetives I do not expect to go as second, however my objetives are picked to trick my opponent. In intel sweep I pick one of my Gonzantis as objetive ship and then I use them as bait. Tried it four times now and worked everytime. I lost my objetive ship, however it was worth the cost since I destroyed most of my opponents fleet! :)

In regards to Contestet outpost, the same logic applies. I merely fly a Gonzanti to the station, whereas in my experience, people with big ships pick it due to them thinking, that idiot can't win this objetive. My idea is not to win any points on it, it is to direct their ships to the station so it makes my job a 1000 times easier to flank them with my GSD and boom. So far, my experience has been pretty good.

For someone who does not pick second, and does not plan to go second, you are second quite often :D.

If your bid is not high enough, i would think about giving up the bidding and take another ship instead, and go for the good second player game ;).

Well in my community we sometimes behind agree on who goes first and second and what objective we want to play, if we want to test our fleet out in a spefic objetive or some combo that requires one either going first or second xD

I might consider another ship combination with an ISD and GSD for some classic hammer and anvil action. Howver, no matter what I will take a good look at the squadrons again! :D