The torpedoes were meant for destroying a solar system right? You don't use them against other ships. Don't even bother adding them to the game. As for the rest it can be expensive to field. That's why there's only one in the universe.

5 hours ago, Estarriol said:

I read the first book in this trilogy. It went to a charity shop.

The awful part is that it's not the WORST set of novels in the EU series. Just near the bottom, not at the bottom - unfortunately, when you can say one of the 'better' series involves an out-and-out Mary Sue character who fails at nothing and turns out to be an ace fighter pilot, police detective, AND space wizard, it's not saying much about the general quality of Star Wars novels.

13 minutes ago, Kingsguard said:

The torpedoes were meant for destroying a solar system right? You don't use them against other ships. Don't even bother adding them to the game. As for the rest it can be expensive to field. That's why there's only one in the universe.

Yes, but what does the Sun Crusher DO aside from be invincible and look like C-3P0's butt-plug?

It's dumb. I mean, really, really stupid. It's not a fighter, it's not a freighter, it's not a bomber, it's nothing but a silly plot device, meant to be "Like the Death Star but BIGGER so we have to be really careful unless - whoops, looks like it got stolen!"

At least the "Like the Death Star but BIGGER" in Force Awakens had some thought put into it - weaknesses to be exploited, limitations on its use, a reason for its creation, and even succeeded in a way that the earlier iterations never did - it successfully raised the bar.

1 hour ago, iamfanboy said:

At least the "Like the Death Star but BIGGER" in Force Awakens had some thought put into it - weaknesses to be exploited, limitations on its use, a reason for its creation, and even succeeded in a way that the earlier iterations never did - it successfully raised the bar.

I don't know if "It just has the weaknesses of the Death Star from Return of the Jedi, except the shield generator is on Planet Death Star, and it's an ice planet like Hoth and not a forest like Endor" counts as "thought" being put into it.

Planet Death Star is basically the Sun Crusher but its purpose as a plot device is slightly different. I mean, seriously, Planet Death Star just kills planets from across the galaxy (in real time, no less!) and its "weakness" is to have a recharge time and blow up like the alien ships in Independence Day. Weaknesses that are rendered irrelevant by TFA's complete disregard for travel times.

2 hours ago, iamfanboy said:

The awful part is that it's not the WORST set of novels in the EU series. Just near the bottom, not at the bottom - unfortunately, when you can say one of the 'better' series involves an out-and-out Mary Sue character who fails at nothing and turns out to be an ace fighter pilot, police detective, AND space wizard, it's not saying much about the general quality of Star Wars novels.

Yes, but what does the Sun Crusher DO aside from be invincible and look like C-3P0's butt-plug?

It's dumb. I mean, really, really stupid. It's not a fighter, it's not a freighter, it's not a bomber, it's nothing but a silly plot device, meant to be "Like the Death Star but BIGGER so we have to be really careful unless - whoops, looks like it got stolen!"

At least the "Like the Death Star but BIGGER" in Force Awakens had some thought put into it - weaknesses to be exploited, limitations on its use, a reason for its creation, and even succeeded in a way that the earlier iterations never did - it successfully raised the bar.

I don't think TFA had much thought to it either. I mean they all but said "Look! It's like the deathstar but bigger!" but I guess that's super weapons for you. Every one has to be scarier that the one before it.

3 minutes ago, VaeVictis said:

I don't know if "It just has the weaknesses of the Death Star from Return of the Jedi, except the shield generator is on Planet Death Star, and it's an ice planet like Hoth and not a forest like Endor" counts as "thought" being put into it.

Planet Death Star is basically the Sun Crusher but its purpose as a plot device is slightly different. I mean, seriously, Planet Death Star just kills planets from across the galaxy (in real time, no less!) and its "weakness" is to have a recharge time and blow up like the alien ships in Independence Day. Weaknesses that are rendered irrelevant by TFA's complete disregard for travel times.

Has Star Wars EVER shown travel time? I mean, if ESB is literally evaluated (as TFA hecklers are prone to do) Luke's training under Yoda consists of five total scenes, and Leia didn't exactly look like she'd spent days or weeks traveling at whatever speeds it took to get to Bespin with only the conveniences of a YT-1300 freighter - in point of fact, it looks as though her makeup hasn't even changed from the escape of Hoth!

Just another 'horrible thing about TFA' from people who decided to hate it as they bought the tickets to see it, and THEN found the reasons to hate it as they were forced to suffer through another Star Wars movie. Oh, the poor souls!

Pure energy travels through hyperspace faster than matter and energy? I mean, in a universe where there exists space wizards with magic laser swords, where guns that have slow enough projectiles to dodge or deflect are used instead of speedy near-invisible slugthrowers, and where faster than light travel is possible at all, how hard is it to accept the addition of a Galaxy Gun with more limitations?

Gods, I'd forgotten that the Galaxy Gun even existed. I thought I was referencing an anime, not yet another stupid Extended Universe plotline.

I'm not really a fan of TFA, don't hate it or love it - I think I've watched it maybe twice since it came out on DVD? - but it's EASILY in the top 25% of Star Wars stories to ever exist, by any rational standard.

I mean, that includes Traviss' relentless fellating of the Mandalorians, the Ewok 'movies', "The Stockholming of Princess Leia", Jar Jar Binks, the utter and absolute misunderstanding of everything that Star Wars IS by making Sheev Palpatine the 'good guy' who saw the Vong coming, Skippy the Droid Jedi killing himself to make sure R2-D2 achieved his destiny, Jar Jar Binks, Luke getting tricked by the Dark Side more times than a Twi'lek dancer flashes her nips, "I hate sand" being a penultimate romantic line, Jar Jar Binks, the Sun Crusher, wyrwolves, and Jar Jar Binks, so...

TFA didn't exactly have a difficult bar to cross. But it DID cross the bar.

Star Wars is not high art, highfalutin' "Heroes' Journey" advocates notwithstanding (and remember that originated with a man who was responsible for a ton of pulp scifi/fantasy stories in the 30s and 40s!) It's wizards and WWII dogfights in space, pew pew! Every single one of the movies, held to the same standard that the haters of TFA espouse, would fail.

But there's low art and there's bad art, and TFA is not bad art.

22 minutes ago, Kingsguard said:

I don't think TFA had much thought to it either. I mean they all but said "Look! It's like the deathstar but bigger!" but I guess that's super weapons for you. Every one has to be scarier that the one before it.

It seems like I'm putting more thought into this than I really want to; maybe I should go back to playing Pikmin. *sigh*

A dragon always needs a ***** in its armor. The Starkiller Base had several: It was an entire freaking planet, it required suns as ammunition, it took a lot of time and resources to build, and it was hardly subtle in its operation. The Suncrusher? None. Perfectly flawless, except for its "extra lasers" - it could even avoid tractor beams!

Frankly, the most interesting thing for me isn't how it works or whatever, it's how it set up the next two movies: Starkiller Base DID its job as a superweapon, unlike the Death Star(s). It put the New Republic on a serious disadvantage compared to the First Order by wrecking most of their fleet. It makes our heroes plucky underdogs, trying to scrape together what they can while a threat that almost no one took seriously comes sweeping out of the Unknown Regions.

EDIT: OMG, the profanity filter doesn't catch buttplug, but it catches a word commonly used for a hole or gap that is a now-obsolete racial slur? Hilarious!

No. Eff the Suncrusher and its Force-Unleashed-power-level wankery.

50 minutes ago, iamfanboy said:

It seems like I'm putting more thought into this than I really want to; maybe I should go back to playing Pikmin. *sigh*

A dragon always needs a ***** in its armor. The Starkiller Base had several: It was an entire freaking planet, it required suns as ammunition, it took a lot of time and resources to build, and it was hardly subtle in its operation. The Suncrusher? None. Perfectly flawless, except for its "extra lasers" - it could even avoid tractor beams!

Frankly, the most interesting thing for me isn't how it works or whatever, it's how it set up the next two movies: Starkiller Base DID its job as a superweapon, unlike the Death Star(s). It put the New Republic on a serious disadvantage compared to the First Order by wrecking most of their fleet. It makes our heroes plucky underdogs, trying to scrape together what they can while a threat that almost no one took seriously comes sweeping out of the Unknown Regions.

EDIT: OMG, the profanity filter doesn't catch buttplug, but it catches a word commonly used for a hole or gap that is a now-obsolete racial slur? Hilarious!

Well that's what you get you racist racist person. Lol, at that selective profanity filter. I was kind of annoyed. Starkiller base was a planet killing shotgun with seeker pellets? Seriously? And yeah it made the New Republic plucky underdogs again. Basically the whole universe got reset so that rather than a new chapter we get to reread the old ones. I was disappointed.

I don't care much about the Suncrusher. Sure it's ridiculous. But I still don't see how it's less creative than Starkiller base. At least it was something different than "The same thing as last time but bigger and meaner!"

https://clara.io/view/e5d52366-ed71-45cc-8733-efa863e4f195

I actually just started work on an updated version of the Suncrusher last week for a "first order origins" arc in my hotac campaign with the junta researching and creating many of the empires failed superweapons using kyber technology. In my mind, the Suncrusher would have been seen as a more effective overall weapon than starkiller base, but deemed to vulnerable to subterfuge and capture for use against the first order.

18 hours ago, RogueLeader42 said:

Oh yeah K.J.A.s books deserved it!

KJA had the nerve to call himself ‘the Man with the Golden Dictaphone’, admitting that he doesn’t really write anything, just dictates it so his assistant and/or wife can actually do the real work.

While on the topic of the EU, why was Lando constantly in some kind of mining operation in some obscure part of the galaxy? On Cloud City he was Baron Administrator, it just happened to be a profitable mining colony as well. In the Alliance he was made a General. He had come a long way from just a gambling Rogue. Does this sound like a man who would just dissapear from the galaxy when he was on the winning side of a war? I’m pretty sure he would have found a place somewhere in the New Republic government, maybe a senator or done high level executive position. He may have even stayed in the military as a top general. Lando, you got screwed.

Maybe mining is Lando's interest, as much as his career? He always wants to mine something for a living - spice, gas, metals, gemstones - it doesn't matter which.

It would appear that in the newcanon, mining is his thing as well - the "puffer pig" in Rebels was basically a living mining tool.

12 hours ago, iamfanboy said:

Has Star Wars EVER shown travel time? I mean, if ESB is literally evaluated (as TFA hecklers are prone to do) Luke's training under Yoda consists of five total scenes, and Leia didn't exactly look like she'd spent days or weeks traveling at whatever speeds it took to get to Bespin with only the conveniences of a YT-1300 freighter - in point of fact, it looks as though her makeup hasn't even changed from the escape of Hoth!

Just another 'horrible thing about TFA' from people who decided to hate it as they bought the tickets to see it, and THEN found the reasons to hate it as they were forced to suffer through another Star Wars movie. Oh, the poor souls!

Pure energy travels through hyperspace faster than matter and energy? I mean, in a universe where there exists space wizards with magic laser swords, where guns that have slow enough projectiles to dodge or deflect are used instead of speedy near-invisible slugthrowers, and where faster than light travel is possible at all, how hard is it to accept the addition of a Galaxy Gun with more limitations?

Gods, I'd forgotten that the Galaxy Gun even existed. I thought I was referencing an anime, not yet another stupid Extended Universe plotline.

I'm not really a fan of TFA, don't hate it or love it - I think I've watched it maybe twice since it came out on DVD? - but it's EASILY in the top 25% of Star Wars stories to ever exist, by any rational standard.

I mean, that includes Traviss' relentless fellating of the Mandalorians, the Ewok 'movies', "The Stockholming of Princess Leia", Jar Jar Binks, the utter and absolute misunderstanding of everything that Star Wars IS by making Sheev Palpatine the 'good guy' who saw the Vong coming, Skippy the Droid Jedi killing himself to make sure R2-D2 achieved his destiny, Jar Jar Binks, Luke getting tricked by the Dark Side more times than a Twi'lek dancer flashes her nips, "I hate sand" being a penultimate romantic line, Jar Jar Binks, the Sun Crusher, wyrwolves, and Jar Jar Binks, so...

TFA didn't exactly have a difficult bar to cross. But it DID cross the bar.

Star Wars is not high art, highfalutin' "Heroes' Journey" advocates notwithstanding (and remember that originated with a man who was responsible for a ton of pulp scifi/fantasy stories in the 30s and 40s!) It's wizards and WWII dogfights in space, pew pew! Every single one of the movies, held to the same standard that the haters of TFA espouse, would fail.

But there's low art and there's bad art, and TFA is not bad art.

The travel time problem is a bit silly, but I think it's done mostly for dramatic effect, and it's hardly unique to the Star Wars movies (e.g. the Nazgul ride out from Minas Morgul, and moments later they've reached the Shire, nevermind that it should properly probably have taken them months or years even to find out where the Shire is). It's just one of those things that works in books, but isn't going to work so well on screen.

Though, I do remember in X-Wing Alliance, one of the cutscenes showed an Imperial officer getting recalled to Coruscant, and mentioning that it would take a couple weeks.

11 hours ago, iamfanboy said:

It seems like I'm putting more thought into this than I really want to; maybe I should go back to playing Pikmin. *sigh*

A dragon always needs a ***** in its armor. The Starkiller Base had several: It was an entire freaking planet, it required suns as ammunition, it took a lot of time and resources to build, and it was hardly subtle in its operation. The Suncrusher? None. Perfectly flawless, except for its "extra lasers" - it could even avoid tractor beams!

Frankly, the most interesting thing for me isn't how it works or whatever, it's how it set up the next two movies: Starkiller Base DID its job as a superweapon, unlike the Death Star(s). It put the New Republic on a serious disadvantage compared to the First Order by wrecking most of their fleet. It makes our heroes plucky underdogs, trying to scrape together what they can while a threat that almost no one took seriously comes sweeping out of the Unknown Regions.

EDIT: OMG, the profanity filter doesn't catch buttplug, but it catches a word commonly used for a hole or gap that is a now-obsolete racial slur? Hilarious!

Sounds like the net-filtering software we had in my high school. You'd have a good history site about world war 2, for instance, blocked because of a single mention of a brothel, while truly disturbing and problematic images showed up completely unfiltered practically every other search.

2 hours ago, GrimmyV said:

KJA had the nerve to call himself ‘the Man with the Golden Dictaphone’, admitting that he doesn’t really write anything, just dictates it so his assistant and/or wife can actually do the real work.

While on the topic of the EU, why was Lando constantly in some kind of mining operation in some obscure part of the galaxy? On Cloud City he was Baron Administrator, it just happened to be a profitable mining colony as well. In the Alliance he was made a General. He had come a long way from just a gambling Rogue. Does this sound like a man who would just dissapear from the galaxy when he was on the winning side of a war? I’m pretty sure he would have found a place somewhere in the New Republic government, maybe a senator or done high level executive position. He may have even stayed in the military as a top general. Lando, you got screwed.

Maybe Lando's just too sane to go into galactic politics. Even being a general embroils you in issues that would probably be quite stressful and frustrating. Much easier to go off and do your own thing as you please.

17 hours ago, GrimmyV said:

KJA had the nerve to call himself ‘the Man with the Golden Dictaphone’, admitting that he doesn’t really write anything, just dictates it so his assistant and/or wife can actually do the real work.

While on the topic of the EU, why was Lando constantly in some kind of mining operation in some obscure part of the galaxy? On Cloud City he was Baron Administrator, it just happened to be a profitable mining colony as well. In the Alliance he was made a General. He had come a long way from just a gambling Rogue. Does this sound like a man who would just dissapear from the galaxy when he was on the winning side of a war? I’m pretty sure he would have found a place somewhere in the New Republic government, maybe a senator or done high level executive position. He may have even stayed in the military as a top general. Lando, you got screwed.

There's a lot of goofiness from Legends, however personally I don't think the Sun Crusher or even the Tarkin superweapon is as goofy as any of those.

17 hours ago, JJ48 said:

The travel time problem is a bit silly, but I think it's done mostly for dramatic effect, and it's hardly unique to the Star Wars movies (e.g. the Nazgul ride out from Minas Morgul, and moments later they've reached the Shire, nevermind that it should properly probably have taken them months or years even to find out where the Shire is). It's just one of those things that works in books, but isn't going to work so well on screen.

Well, you are not so far from it with your assessment that it should have taken them years.
The movie shows Bilbo's party, where Gandalf warns Frodo about the Ring and tells him to keep it hidden.
Then we see Gandalf travelling to Minas Tirith to investigate about the Ring.
Then we see Frodo leaving the tavern and going home, where he is startled by Gandalf, that tells him the Ring is Sauron's.

You know how long time passes between the first and the last scene? Almost 20 years!

4 minutes ago, Azrapse said:

Well, you are not so far from your assessment that they should have taken them years.
The movie shows Bilbo's party, where Gandalf warns Frodo about the Ring and tells him to keep it hidden.
Then we see Gandalf travelling to Minas Tirith to investigate about the Ring.
Then we see Frodo leaving the tavern and going home, where he is startled by Gandalf, that tells him the Ring is Sauron's.

You know how long time passes between the first and the last scene? Almost 20 years!

In the book, yes. In the movie, no such time gap exists.

Just now, JJ48 said:

In the book, yes. In the movie, no such time gap exists.

Of course. I perfectly remember not spending 20 years sitting at the cinema.
But the movie doesn't contradict the existence of that gap either. Hobbits age slower than men, and so does Gandalf, so you couldn't really tell.

Neither I couldn't tell that about 9 months pass in ESB from the point the Falcon leaves Hoth and reaches Bespin. But the movie doesn't contradict that.

9 minutes ago, Azrapse said:

Of course. I perfectly remember not spending 20 years sitting at the cinema.
But the movie doesn't contradict the existence of that gap either. Hobbits age slower than men, and so does Gandalf, so you couldn't really tell.

Neither I couldn't tell that about 9 months pass in ESB from the point the Falcon leaves Hoth and reaches Bespin. But the movie doesn't contradict that.

Hobbits age a little slower than men, sure, but not so much slower that most would look completely unchanged after 20 years.

Moreover, the movie itself doesn't give us any indications of such a time jump. In ESB, at least, we had Luke's training to show us that some time had passed.

Now, that's not meant to be a knock against the movies. Some things that work in print just don't work on film, and vice versa. But you can't just say that because something happened in the books it automatically means the same thing happened in the movie.

That ship just looks terrible. If it makes it to the table I may have to abandon X-Wing.

12 minutes ago, Pooleman said:

That ship just looks terrible. If it makes it to the table I may have to abandon X-Wing.

I'm working on an updated model for the suncrusher based on the original design for a boss-level craft for my HOTAC campaign. I don't think we'll ever see it in the normal game for sure.