Long time RP group with a combined total of over 100 years experience with myself almost exclusively GMing. Sorry to sound big headed because i realise there are a lot of vets on here, just want to make it clear that we are far from RP noobs.

After buying the game before Christmas my group will be creating characters tomorrow evening and, time permitting, running a couple of combat encounters to get used to the rules. I am the only one who has financially committed, having bought both the core set and tool kit. Currently set at 3 players.

It will be my responsibility to teach the game tomorrow, as has been the case for the last 20 years, and for the first time since...well ever, I am genuinely concenred about this process. I have completed what I would think is my fourth or fifth read through of the rules and they are a flaming mess. I know this is commonly accepted on these boards that the rules are not well presented but this is the first system that I am struggling to reconcile the rules in my own head, as well as questioning the purpose of some of them, progress tracker is the first one that leaps into my head.

Maybe it is because I turned 34 yesterday and some more grey cells went the way of the dodo but I am usually pretty good are remembering systems. Coupled together with my sceptism about the tokens, cards etc I am beginning to wonder if i made a mistake urging my group to try this out rather than some of the other games that were suggested for our weekly session (Star Wars Saga, Rogue Trader, CoC, Dark Heresy).

Now I am hoping it all comes together on the night and that my concerns will be for nought.

Anyway a bit of a stream of consciousness and I will hopefully be here after tomorrow night to feedback some positive responses.

Just wondered if anyone found themselves in a similar situation where their initial excitement and ethusiasm has been diluted by the reality of trying to get to grips with what is fundamentally a quite distinct approach to a RP game?

First, the layout of the rules is vastly different than most RPG's. Don't expect things to be listed like in a technical document. Instead the rules have been layed out expecting you to read through them, in order, like you would a novel/book. So, skipping parts or sections is ill-advised, you might miss out important bits.

Next, several people have suggested running through the Demo adventure using the pre-made characters. Tell the players you'll use the demo to explain the rules as they're really easier to grasp that way. I think the physical parts make it easier to understand when playing, when you're just talking about it it sounds more complicated than it really is.

Once they've seen the game in action they'll be ready to start making characters. So your next hurdle will be character creation, for that there's a really useful thread: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=149&efcid=3&efidt=280916&efpag=0

Also, several people have suggested keeping the game simple at first and then adding more complexity. So non-crucial parts like Party Sheet, Stress, Fatigue and other elements should only be introduced when they come into play and not before.

Sorta kinda - but from the players perspective. The GM had only run the game once before so he had some kinks worked out. The first time through we took it slow and easy (even the GM) and we played with a Golden Rule - (not the typical The GM calls the shots one) but another one. One where we were allowed to rewind things if we found we'd made an important mistake with a rule.

But we also played through things pretty slowly. Also for what it's worth this is how things were presented to us (and how I've presented it to others since I've been in the GM seat).

Before making up characters went over what the different dice are and the symbols.

Explained the stance meter and reminded people that if you keep your stance neutral you can still use cautious/reckless actions depending on the natural state of your stance (Troll Slayers for example when in Neutral stance still use the reckless side of the cards).

Talked about the action cards and how the different results worked based on the dice symbols. Also just talked about how general actions still work and that you aren't limited to doing what your cards say you can - I suggest stressing that point.

Beat into our head that fortune points should be used liberally and not horded like in previous editions because they can refresh throughout the game. (Still a huge sumbling block for us long term WFRP players)

Showed us some wound cards and that crits this time around aren't so bad, well the first one anyway

Explained initiative to us

Then went through a couple rounds of combat and at that time explained how the range system worked.

Then we made characters and asked lots of questions, more just on trying to decide which action cards are more fitting/practical then others based on various factors as well as trying to help spend points on say is it better to put an extra point into stats or skills, how important is Intelligence for a fighter etc...

From there we started into the game slowly and then again when we got to combat we took it slow initially, did a few rewinds and kept along with it. I'd say collectively that whole process took about 1 1/2 hrs.

But for that to work you have to try and get things sorted out in your head. Read the books and try and work out some combats and skill checks by yourself to see where you get stuck or don't understand. It'll be more difficult for you to do anything when not only are you questioning rules you aren't accustomed to but have 3 players bugging you with questions you never even thought of.

Best of all - remember it's a game, it's new, it gets easier.

I don't get what's so hard about it? I agree that the layout and structure of the books is a bit messy, but it's not that bad. It's a lot less rules to read (since a lot of it is on the cards) than most games. We have played 3 sessions so far (with 2 shorter meetings before to make PCs and trying out the dice in a quick test combat) with me and the GM being RPG vets, the other two players new both to roleplaying and the Warhammer world. We haven't had any major problems so far. We're all doing fine and are managing both dice pools and card use without any problems.

Comparing to the other games you mention (at least the ones I've played, being SW:SAGA and Dark Heresy), I'd say the WHFRP 3e rules are the easiest and quickest to learn of them. But you really need to play to learn them, without the use of cards it will be very hard to grasp. D20 games are certainly not easier to learn, the sheer amount of abilities and modifications added to nightmare stuff like attacks of opportunity makes them extremely cumbersome ruleswise (both for the players and GM) in my opinion. And Dark heresy, while being a very nice game, is not exactly slim on rules.

I've taught this game 4 times now. once for the demo, twice for the convention, and once for the home group.

Here's what you need to remember:

1. You're not going to get the rules correct on the first try so don't flip out over it. Tell your players that.
2. Download my handout for "players quick rules" gallery.rptools.net/v/contrib/emirikol7/
3. Download and hand out my "sequences"
4. Remember: this is a ROLEPLAYING GAME NOT A BOARDAGME/WARGAME. Don't get too hung up on the rules.
5. If someone decides to play a spellcaster, let THEM read the book on it. Channeling and "currying" are all on the card.

Good luck,

jh

I'd suggest for you to get all the GM/PC cheatsheets available at Hammerzeit - just one won't suffice as they all have things missing here and there. I've complied a new one for myself, based on everything that's available. With that and roughly two reads of the rulebook I still had some rules messed up for the first couple of sessions. After some reading here at the forums and a few more checks in the books I think I got this all figured out now. ...and this is my first roleplaying game both as a GM and in general. So no worries - you'll do just fine, even if you do some mistakes for the first couple of sessions.