Dam said:

I'm agree with you in almost every point. The FAQ changes and som cards in the new BP didn't made m happy either.

Hovewer I like skavens, so if you don't need them you could send them to me.

(ps. : you have a lot of time to play based on your list... lucky guy)

Cain_hu said:

I'd still take employment > lot of time to play .

Strange. I loose gainst Chaos every game. Their possibility to finish your whole BF with sacrificing the right unit oder their destroying some of ur precious cards with flames of tzeench makes me wanna quit the game Very annoying. But I´m not a good player at all.

cyberfunk said:

OUTLOOK NOT SO GOOD

Dam said:

Iron Discipline - Empire - 0R/1L - "ACTION: Target one unit. Until the end of the turn, cancel any other action that targets this unit unless the action's controller pays an additional 4 resources (per action)

This is not a cancel card. Its primary use is to protect one of your units from being targeted by S educed by Darkness, Festering Nurglings, Franz's Decree, Grudge Thrower Assault, We Need Your Blood, and other effects that hose a target unit.

In terms of playing it on an opposing unit, I suppose if you knew or suspected that an opponent had a "buff" card in hand you could prevent it from being played, but it really only works if there is only one target available for the buff.

One more thought - has there been a determination if Counterstrike is a "targeted action"? I suspect that Counterstrike is neither an action or targeted, but it would be good to get an official ruling.

Dr.Cornelius said:

You play Seduced by Darkness (you "pay", put it into play, choose target), I play ID in response on the Unit you target. If you don't pay 4 resources, SbD is cancelled. How is ID not a cancel card in this case? You can always play ID in response to the other Action, thus unless the other player pays extra 4, their Action is cancelled.

Dam said:

Remember, repeat after me: This is NOT Magic: The Unraveling...err...The Gathering.

Ultimately Dam you will decide what is worth your time or not, but I think it is unfair to play at least half a dozen games under the new rules to see how much has truly changed. I also disagree with your card evaluations in the 3rd pack, but then again I'm not a die-hard Warhammer fan. I enjoy the setting but I am not so tied to the lore that I can't build decks following my own themes or remaking the world with alliances that could have or should have been.

The FAQ did change things, but I think most of the changes were definitely with the long-term health of the game in mind. It is hard to be dissatisfied when I can see those changes as having been beneficial, even though they may have nerfed certain cards/mechanics I exploited.

As to Iron Discipline... until you face the card you can't really say how much of a cancel it really is in regards to disrupting needed effects, and limited as it is in what it can target it isn't remotely like facing a Blue Denial Deck.

Dam said:

I am also concerned that Iron Discipline being a zero or one cost near-universal cancel for targeted actions will unbalance the environment. Prior to this card I thought that the cost/benefit of units and tactics was reasonably balanced. i.e. it was advantageous to include a significant number of tactics (especially targeted tactics) in a deck. Introducing a one cost counter card that can be used by any faction cannot help but reduce the utility of tactics and IMHO makes a less interesting game.

Hopefully the developers will monitor Iron Discipline and take appropriate action.

Dr.Cornelius said:

Iron Discipline can only affect Actions :, not any action (Ça va?).

Some form of limited cancel is desperately needed in the environment to cause a bit of wonder and tension when one triggers an action. No tactic should be guaranteed to succeed. If that Action is important then keep some resources in reserve. It is fundamentally no different than taking precautions against Verena by placing developments to protect your units, in this case you reserve resources to protect your actions.

dormouse said:

1) LIFO mechanic where nearly every action can be played as a response is not as interesting a mechanic as separating "Action" and "Response".

2) IMHO Iron Discipline is significantly undercosted and is likely to become a mandatory 3x in every Order deck. Some will find this problematic, others not.

Cancel with a way around it should be extremely low cost... admittedly I wouldn't have made it free myself (though I have yet to use it or have it used against me so I am absolutely talking out of my ass here).

I think that the Thrones manner of handling timing of cards is infinitely preferable (even superior) but last I checked my last name wasn't Lang, French, or Peterson so I didn't really get a vote.

That said, the timing essentially works out to stop the effect you are responding to, but does not stop the effects played in response to ID. I'm perfectly fine with this.

since most people seem to be opting for 40-60% units in there decks and splitting the other 60-40% of their cards between supports and tactics with only the occasional Quest card, I'm guessing there are going to be a lot of decks where this is a pretty situational card. x3 in Order is likely to be very meta dependent.