The area where The Falcon was. Flying over when Finn made his statement was open, and empty , desert; no wreckage, no hills, no boulders, just sand for kilometers around. He was not talking about Jakku’s unique terrain when he told Rey to fly low. It took them time to get towards the wreckage, they weren’t anywhere near it when Finn told her to fly low to the ground. For the record, flying low to the ground and to water it a tried and true military tactic in order to evade RADAR, no matter what the specific terrain. That too is how I know that Finn was not talking about the unique terrain of Jakku, but a specific flaw in the sensors of the Firdt Order TIE fighters that he knew about as a result of his first hand knowledge of First Order equipment.

Not only that, but do you really think that Finn would have the audacity to advise a native of Jakku, about the terrain of her own planet?

It was Rey, not Finn who decided to use the specific features of Jakku to their advantage, by actually flying into the wreckage of a Star Destroyer. Finn just told her to stay low to the ground, nothing more.

5 hours ago, SavageBob said:

Ah, OK, I can see that. Yeah, they could have made an alternative path that went straight down to Fearsome on the left side (through Scathing Tirade). I would let a player do that if they were interested in a fire-and-brimstone preacher who didn't have much in the way of a positive message.

Yeah. I’m not even saying an A3 - A4 bridge is the right one. I’d be fine with a B3 - C3 or C3 - D3 bridge. I just don’t like that you are forced to take inspiring rhetoric.

Glad I could explain myself.

44 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

The area where The Falcon was. Flying over when Finn made his statement was open, and empty , desert; no wreckage, no hills, no boulders, just sand for kilometers around. He was not talking about Jakku’s unique terrain when he told Rey to fly low. It took them time to get towards the wreckage, they weren’t anywhere near it when Finn told her to fly low to the ground. For the record, flying low to the ground and to water it a tried and true military tactic in order to evade RADAR, no matter what the specific terrain. That too is how I know that Finn was not talking about the unique terrain of Jakku, but a specific flaw in the sensors of the Firdt Order TIE fighters that he knew about as a result of his first hand knowledge of First Order equipment.

Not only that, but do you really think that Finn would have the audacity to advise a native of Jakku, about the terrain of her own planet?

It was Rey, not Finn who decided to use the specific features of Jakku to their advantage, by actually flying into the wreckage of a Star Destroyer. Finn just told her to stay low to the ground, nothing more.

That's nonsensical b.s. real world sensors have nothing to do with scifi sensors. Rey has no reason to know how FO sensors work so under no situation was Finn advising her about her planets terrain, and wreckage is virtually everywhere on jakku. So tough luck, do you care to try again with something explicit/not open to interpretation?

Btw if you're going to claim something is absolute truth it has to be the only reasonable explanation, being the most reasonable (to you) explanation is NOT SUFFICIENT. Building up your favored argument does not help you, you have to eliminate all other reasonable possibilities, and you are nowhere close to doing that. Forget about being in the ballpark, you're not even in the same city/state/country of being able to do that.

1 hour ago, EliasWindrider said:

real world sensors have nothing to do with scifi sensors.

Ehhhhh...

Scifi sensors work the way real world sensors feel . See also: starfighters banking in space. There is a way to get from real world sensors to scifi sensors, it's just not the most direct one.

3 minutes ago, Stan Fresh said:

Ehhhhh...

Scifi sensors work the way real world sensors feel . See also: starfighters banking in space.

I'm not sure what that means in this context, but it sounds like a plausible premise.

1 minute ago, EliasWindrider said:

I'm not sure what that means in this context, but it sounds like a plausible premise.

It means one can't just dismiss real world elements like airplanes using the ground to evade notice just because this is a galaxy far, far away. Star Wars physics are built on what audiences saw in old movies, after all, not actual physics.

For me Crafting a Holocron should only be done if one has the right skills {in my case the character needed three critical skills for what she wanted to put into the holocron; in this case data, lightsaber stances and their roots, etc} So Snowbund had to use Knowledge, Lightsaber, and Computers; First and formost rolled for was computers, the holocron is afterall a computer of a type, the next one being the lore and knowledge she wanted to put into it, namely, Lightsaber stances, therefore the lightsaber skill comes into play, followed by Knowledge which provides the information to boost another characters Lightsaber and Stealth skills

Of cpourse this is all subject to the GM's approval, my GM said "see what happens" as the worse that could happen is the thing blows up in your face. She was too drunk to care of thew thing blowing up and somehow managed to get a triumph as 3 advantages

2 hours ago, Stan Fresh said:

It means one can't just dismiss real world elements like airplanes using the ground to evade notice just because this is a galaxy far, far away. Star Wars physics are built on what audiences saw in old movies, after all, not actual physics.

A plausible argument, but it also fits the debris theory too, so still a matter of interpretation.

Where’s my popcorn!

If the Jedi ‘banned’ Alchemy and Alchemy was the only way to make holocrons - I think you can follow that logic path

i don’t see why Alchemy shouldn’t be a way of making them, but not the only way by definition

The fluff text introducing the Armorer indicates they can imbue armor they work on with the Force and the Artisan has a talent "Imbue Item." Those are the two I remember off the top of my head. I'm not a rules maven. There may be others. Clearly alchemy is one way to imbue an item with the force, but not the only way. This is, of course, all said without taking Random Bystander's cogent observation into account. Proposing that, since the alchemy text mentions creating holocrons there are no other methods, is a logical fallacy. Its called "drawing a negative conclusion from an affirmative premise." This logical fallacy, which I've nicknamed "explicitism," is very common in gaming circles, especially among rules warriors. Or, so my anecdotal experience tells me. As always, the plural of anecdote isn't data, but after 39 years of this hobby I have a lot of anecdotes. In my opinion, its reasonable to draw the implicit conclusion, both from canon and a broader reading of the rules, that there are other unstated means of making a holocon. Gamemaster's should, therefore, feel free, to lay that out for non-alchemist players who wish to accomplish that.

Personally, I think the most important piece of information we have in all of the new canon is that no one has “on screen” actually made a holocron. The comic have talked about how they are made, and in rebels they discuss how they function/what they are, but nothing affirmative has wver been explored about how they are made. Even the most proficient characters (palps, Vader, yoda, etc.) have never made one, so for all we know it is alchemy and since the Jedi now shun alchemy, that’s why the holocrons are all ancient.

My point is that holocrons are still essentially legends, and have no real rules in the universe (the greater SW universe, not the rpg). So in our individual games do what ever you want, knowing that your making it up because honestly your not wrong.

And stop trying to parse facts like they aren’t facts. Facts are facts; conclusions about them theories they’re based on, and the context of a fact is mutable by time and perspective. But a fact is a fact.

As I'm writing this a fact is that the last time I flipped a quarter it came up tails, but that's not always going to be true, I just flipped the same quarter and now the last time I flipped it it still came up tails, but that doesn't mean the last time I flipped it will always be tails, tails again... and now the last time I flipped it it came up heads. The point is facts are nothing more that data, a record of what has happened, they aren't a prescription for the future or in themselves an eternal truth or deeper meaning... conclusions/interpretations of facts have meaning and let you make predictions. Because honestly the past, apart from what it implies about the present/future, isn't meaningful.

I'm going to go on a tangent now but it relates... the only legitimate reason to punish someone for a crime they committed is as a deterrent against the crime being committed again (by them or by someone else). Anything else is just revenge dressed up as/pretending to be justice. There are case by case exceptions but mercy/forgiveness is generally the prescription for a better tomorrow.

16 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

That's nonsensical b.s. real world sensors have nothing to do with scifi sensors. Rey has no reason to know how FO sensors work so under no situation was Finn advising her about her planets terrain, and wreckage is virtually everywhere on jakku. So tough luck, do you care to try again with something explicit/not open to interpretation?

Btw if you're going to claim something is absolute truth it has to be the only reasonable explanation, being the most reasonable (to you) explanation is NOT SUFFICIENT. Building up your favored argument does not help you, you have to eliminate all other reasonable possibilities, and you are nowhere close to doing that. Forget about being in the ballpark, you're not even in the same city/state/country of being able to do that.

It's not "Nonsensical BS. Finn Told Rey that First Order Sensors have a weakness to low flying aircraft. Rey then extrapolated that if she flew through the Star Destroyers, it should mess them up even more. She knows that place inside and out. Finn was Terrified when Rey told him they were going inside that hulk.

14 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

I'm not sure what that means in this context, but it sounds like a plausible premise.

14 hours ago, Stan Fresh said:

It means one can't just dismiss real world elements like airplanes using the ground to evade notice just because this is a galaxy far, far away. Star Wars physics are built on what audiences saw in old movies, after all, not actual physics.

And, they also use water to the same effect, where flying low above water is known as Sea Skimming . Sea Skimming also confuses RADAR. To quote:

Quote

Advantages [ edit ]

By flying low to the sea, missiles decrease the range at which the target ships can detect them by a significant amount. Flying at a lower altitude increases the amount of time the missile is under the horizon from the perspective of the target ship, making it harder to detect due to radar clutter from the sea and similar effects. The real-life success of sea skimming depends on its exact implementation, the sophistication of the detection equipment, as well as the infrared and radar signature of the missile. Sea skimming can significantly reduce the available response time that a ship's missile defenses have to work within, making these missiles significantly harder to defend against. Sea skimming can also increase the range of a missile, by relying on ground effects .

11 hours ago, EliasWindrider said:

A plausible argument, but it also fits the debris theory too, so still a matter of interpretation.

No, it doesn't. More proof that Finn was talking about a weakness in the sensors of the TIE Fighters, rather than the unique geography of Jakku, was in his choice of words. IF he were telling Rey to fly low because the specific terrain could potentially confuse their sensors, he would have said "Fly Low. It should (or might) confuse their sensors, or something to that effect, telling her that flying among the debris could potentially confuse the TIE Fighters' sensors."However, that's not what he says. He says, "Fly low! It confuses their sensors!"As in flying low always confuses the sensors of First Order TIE Fighters. This is a key distinction. He is telling Rey that this is a specific flaw in FO sensors, not a unique property of Jakku's terrain .

Ergo, flying low to avoid or confuse sensors is not dependent upon certain types of terrain or metal debris. It works with any terrain, even over water. It is the act of flying low itself (always below 50 meters ) that confuses RADAR and other types of sensors, not the specific terrain being flown over.

1 hour ago, Thebearisdriving said:

Personally, I think the most important piece of information we have in all of the new canon is that no one has “on screen” actually made a holocron. The comic have talked about how they are made, and in rebels they discuss how they function/what they are, but nothing affirmative has wver been explored about how they are made. Even the most proficient characters (palps, Vader, yoda, etc.) have never made one, so for all we know it is alchemy and since the Jedi now shun alchemy, that’s why the holocrons are all ancient.

My point is that holocrons are still essentially legends, and have no real rules in the universe (the greater SW universe, not the rpg). So in our individual games do what ever you want, knowing that your making it up because honestly your not wrong.

And stop trying to parse facts like they aren’t facts. Facts are facts; conclusions about them theories they’re based on, and the context of a fact is mutable by time and perspective. But a fact is a fact.

Anakin Skywalker was shown to have previously made a simple Holocron, containing lessons on lightsaber techniques. Asoka is shown playing it for Ezra in one episode of Rebels .

Could you folks kindly just shut up and get a room instead of spamming a topical thread with nonrelevant bickering? Especially since its really clear that both of you have already made your homes in your argumentative trenches and arent going to move, no matter what either says unless we get a word from god on this (which aint gonna happen on the forums).

At least make a new thread so you arent ******** this one up.

26 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Anakin Skywalker was shown to have previously made a simple Holocron, containing lessons on lightsaber techniques. Asoka is shown playing it for Ezra in one episode of Rebels .

Proof that was a holocron?

5 minutes ago, Thebearisdriving said:

Proof that was a holocron?

Asoka refers to it as such in the episode.

36 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

4 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Asoka refers to it as such in the episode.

Remind me which episode. I’ve seen the series 3 times and I can’t remember the specific episode.

9 minutes ago, Thebearisdriving said:

Remind me which episode. I’ve seen the series 3 times and I can’t remember the specific episode.

I provided a link to Wookieepedia page for the episode in the post above, where I mentioned Anakin having once made a Holocron. It was Shroud of Darkness .

To quote the page:

Quote

Ezra finds Ahsoka Tano in Kanan's cabin, where she is watching a holographic recording of Anakin Skywalker , who is teaching different tactics for lightsaber combat . Ahsoka explains that Anakin was the Jedi Knight who taught her. Ezra says Kanan told him that Anakin was the greatest warrior the Jedi Order had during the Clone Wars , and that he has been studying Anakin's holocron recordings in order to become a better duelist. Ahsoka agrees about Anakin; she says he rarely lost a battle and was a kind Jedi who cared about his friends and always looked out for them. Ezra wonders what happened to him, but she does not know for sure. She explains that the last time she saw him was when Anakin rushed off to rescue Supreme Chancellor Palpatine , after which the Jedi were hunted down and killed for their so-called treason, and the Galactic Empire came to power.

You can see the Holocron in question in this image:

8 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

I provided a link to Wookieepedia page for the episode in the post above, where I mentioned Anakin having once made a Holocron. It was Shroud of Darkness .

You can see the Holocron in question in this image:

Interesting - never noticed the holocrons looking thing. Although, having just watched that part, the word holocrons is never used. So while it looks like one, it could just be an ornate holo-player.

In anycase, my point is do what you want man/person. There is so little about how holocrons are made that you can’t be wrong.

On 6/10/2018 at 10:22 AM, Thebearisdriving said:

Personally, I think the most important piece of information we have in all of the new canon is that no one has “on screen” actually made a holocron. The comic have talked about how they are made, and in rebels they discuss how they function/what they are, but nothing affirmative has wver been explored about how they are made. Even the most proficient characters (palps, Vader, yoda, etc.) have never made one, so for all we know it is alchemy and since the Jedi now shun alchemy, that’s why the holocrons are all ancient.

My point is that holocrons are still essentially legends, and have no real rules in the universe (the greater SW universe, not the rpg). So in our individual games do what ever you want, knowing that your making it up because honestly your not wrong.

And stop trying to parse facts like they aren’t facts. Facts are facts; conclusions about them theories they’re based on, and the context of a fact is mutable by time and perspective. But a fact is a fact.

Darth Bane makes one in the one of his trilogy books, they spend a lot of time describing the creation of a Sith Holocron.

On 6/10/2018 at 12:06 PM, Tramp Graphics said:

Anakin Skywalker was shown to have previously made a simple Holocron, containing lessons on lightsaber techniques. Asoka is shown playing it for Ezra in one episode of Rebels .

No it's just a recording holo recording on a Kanen's Holocron. Holocron's are holographic storage devices after all.

4 minutes ago, Eoen said:

No it's just a recording holo recording on a Kanen's Holocron. Holocron's are holographic storage devices after all.

Nope. It’s a different one. Also, watch the other episodes, Holocrons are definitely more than simple “recording devices”.