40 minutes ago, Giledhil said:

I think we're in the same ****. I have two small kids so my gaming time is limited, and I don't have time to waste playing something I don't really enjoy.

This is me as well, I finally had an X-Wing weekend recently with my dad and brother, it was the first time in a couple of years that we have all played together. I have scum, my dad has imps, and my brother has the rebels. My brother hasn't bought any ships from the last couple of waves and was shocked at how easily he got beaten.

I flew Dengar for a couple of games and by the end decided that I just wasn't having fun with him. When someone else is having such a NPE it really affects the mood of the game. I can see why these ships get used so much in the competitive game, where winning is the main aim, but in casual play a balanced game is much more fun for everyone involved.

5 minutes ago, Zura said:

For me, the game is almost always fun, but it's only fun while both sides have a common goal: if you both play meta, it's fun; if you both go thematic, fun etc. When both players are playing optimized meta lists its actually cool again. Also bombers actually require skill and some creativity in my opinion, they're certainly not easy mode.

I would agree if they didn’t all have turrets too.

7 minutes ago, Archangelspiv said:

I think for a lot of people winning supersedes how they won, especially when it comes to the bigger tournaments. I have been turned off with bomb wing I will say though, I completely understand why people do it, ie why bother maybe rolling hits when you can guarantee them, it has just lost the feel of Star wars for me and could be any generic space fighter board game at the moment.

I think there needs to be a 2.0 soon, rehash everything they should have done and hopefully be a lot more balanced.

This is more or less where I am right now.

Stopped playing PWT a while ago and have felt consistently much better for it. I tried out the Aggressor the other day and it felt dirty. Went back to my triple phantoms and strikers.

Turrets are not fun. I'm having difficulty thinking of a game where I played a turret and thought at the end that it was just a super game. Nothing even close to a well maneuvered ps6 list with actual arcs.

I made vow about not using turrets, and we try not use them at all in our veeeery casual games.

Even i'm planning trading off my stupid YT-2400. And haven't played the TIE aggressor yet. I had a blast with TIE/Ds and TIE/SFs.

This thread is probably one of the most toxic things I have seen in a while on this forum, and that’s saying something.

Yea I do enjoy playing bombs and Sabine on Miranda at high level play. I am having fun playing xwing still, just like I have for the past few years. I am sorry that you don’t, but man trying to make people feel awful for what they play in a game about imaginary space ships is the epitome of sour grapes.

The meta has always had lists that are annoying to play against. If you don’t like playing against, or playing with, the current competitive meta have you considered NOT playing in competitive events? Instead of just coming to the forum and complaining about it, have you tried to DO something about it? Have you organized movie ship tournies, Hotac, campaigns, draft leagues, or anything for your community besides these events? The answer is probably no. You just want the game to be what you want it to be, and since you can’t have that right now you feel the need to guilt trip the players that are still playing the game and having fun. It’s like you are trying to smash a square peg through a round hole and when it doesn’t work asking the person with a round peg “Are you even having fun?”

I'm having a lot of fun playing against my friends when we share the premise that we play meta, and we play to win. While at the same time, we play to make each other better for tournaments. I've always loved to fly high agility aces, so if RAC with Kylo crew is what it takes to make that possible, I will play that.

12 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

I had some fun with Fenn Dengar Inaldra Mindlink honestly. And Palp Aces was fun. I find all 2ship large-quasi-fat ship meta boring and dumb.

You are not forced into that meta. Imperial Aces work with Vader, QuickDraw and Kylo Ren in a Taxi piloted by Yorr. And Corran Horn with Nymm has proven its worth as well is different from the rest of the meta in some ways too. In general there are options, heck even FSR is a break, even when it is imho a very boring list to fly.

2 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Forum making crazy double post and reacting super slow.

It is not my fun type. But grinding out victories is absolutely the funtype of many people. Millions if WoW was any indication.

One type of fun is not better than another one. Sure you could argue that more inclusive funtypes are preferable, but that is not necessarily so.

1 hour ago, citruscannon said:

Stopped playing PWT a while ago and have felt consistently much better for it. I tried out the Aggressor the other day and it felt dirty. Went back to my triple phantoms and strikers.

Turrets are not fun. I'm having difficulty thinking of a game where I played a turret and thought at the end that it was just a super game. Nothing even close to a well maneuvered ps6 list with actual arcs.

Poe + Dash is imho crazy fun. So much mobility and agility.

http://meta-wing.com/ship_combos/3925?ranking_start=2017-02-02&

Winning is fun

I play X-wing (and pretty much any other player vs. player game I play) for the challenge. I bring my best, I want my opponent to bring his best, and see who wins. As such, I try to field stuff that has a good shot at winning. To me, games with winners and losers where you don't try to win feel kinda hollow.

Yep. I've found Nym and Miranda are some of the most fun pilots to fly. To each their own.

I love Nym, but I could never get over the initial naseous reaction to TLT, sensors and EU

**** that, AC + ABT + Cruise + Chips. Every game has been fun, tense and close because Nym can dish it out but he can't take it at all. Great games of cat and mouse

I know people get their knickers in a twist at guaranteed damage, but this is a game about maneuvering and the dice have a crap ton of sway in what's supposed to be a strategic game. Both Armada and Warmachine have a far superior system simply by have a wider range of results and more rolls to allow you to hit average results over the course of a game. If I was going to play a game where only dice had the final say, I'd play yahtzee

4 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

I know people get their knickers in a twist at guaranteed damage, but this is a game about maneuvering and the dice have a crap ton of sway in what's supposed to be a strategic game

?you and your crusade against dice

I shared your opinion on this once. But by now I appreciate the simulation of uncertainty. Not every shot is a hit in Starwars, so why should it be in the game?

I played against Miranda Nym and....well that was fun for me! I think that it becomes boring when you're not knowing who are you fighting. So get your ships wrecked for autodamages can be a pain in the ***. But when you know that Miranda should slam bomb you, that Nym will bring TLT's and Bomblet etc...then you will bring a list capable to manage it. And that's where the game becomes really good for me: when the game itself becomes an enigma to solve.

For me, if I have to play easy...I'll not play x-wing at all. I will go for other games, or X-Wing with huge ships (**** I forgot the name, what the..). And I'm not saying that I approve the game with mirror lists, no no no. I always bring the example of worlds: all the time, the first place is get by a unique list (for example that the Dengar/Manaroo one, ok). But Dengar Tel? Really? Poe, Stresshog, TLT and a Z95? Han solo and 3 (or 4?) Tala? These are all examples that show that you CAN write a competitive list with something new and unpredicatble. I think that this game offer a lot of competitive combinations, and that the skill still the most valuable component.

So for me, I see the game like: study the game, bring what you want, and make it competitive. You will bring some "competitive" choices, but not the entire list. And actually, I will improve yourself by flying against those other net-lists! So I like it, I enjoy when it happens, I'm like a child who wants to test himself. And yes, when a game ends badly, I can always change the liste and get a rematch.

Of course, playing ALWAYS against the same list is boring. I'm not saying that. But facing some netlists...I still enjoy this game. I like it. But the first time that I got is "never cry because some games goes bad for combinations/rules". And I was one of them, before.

Now I'm just optimistic, and if I need to play against an autodamage lists, I'm going to think "will one of mine lists going throught that?" If it is "nope", well, I need to rewrite the list. And PLAYING, testing it.

6 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

?you and your crusade against dice

I shared your opinion on this once. But by now I appreciate the simulation of uncertainty. Not every shot is a hit in Starwars, so why should it be in the game?

because it's 5 points, range 1 only on what's basically a b-wing

also because you don't come out of stupid situations unscathed. Armada knows you don't cuddle up to a star destroyer's nose without getting wrecked, so why should a blocked ace getting shot at range 1 escape unscathed?

Don’t care, getting GUNBOAT, I can stop buying expansions after 12 GUNBOATS are mine, all mine! X-wing vs TIE fighter sim format is a go!

5 hours ago, Force Majeure said:

So why do you play these lists? Is it fun for you? How so? What is the appeal? dominance? 'Cause right now, it just sucks and I'm not sure it's worth playing any more.

Not against these guys anyways.

I can only speculate for the people who are not having fun. They're probably doing it because they've done this for so long it's a habit and they don't know what else to do. It's like a drug addiction in some ways, because an addict no longer enjoys their poison of choice, they literally can't help themselves.

As for me, you asked why people do it and if they get fun out of it. I'm going to be that guy... I confess, I fully enjoy flying my double Jumpmasters build. I like it because I understand how it works, I understand how to kill it (and thus can prevent it to some degree), and it's really a brawling, all-in kind of list. It fits me and a playstyle I like (throw yourself into the fray and blow stuff up).

Here's my secret -- I don't always fly it. I fly ships from all 3 factions, and I always try to understand what I am flying. By constantly mixing up what I have to work with, I prevent the "meh" repetitive nature of flying the same thing every time for months on end.

My other secret - I don't fly just 100/6. I also fly missions, epic games (huge ships a must), and HotAC. The experience is very different and always fun that way.

So, do I play powerful meta lists and enjoy them? Yep. Do I play B team or thematic lists? Yep, and I have fun with them too.

GUNBOAT will make dice irrelevant when it gets its proper Title in the Divine Aces Expansion.

Title:
GUNBOAT

Alpha class Starwing only

When attacking you may sacrifice an Ewok to turn all dice to Crits.

When defending you may sacrifice a Gungan to turn all dice to Evades.

You are allowed to bring a Rancor and feed it with your Opponent.

All hail the mighty GUNBOAT!

8 hours ago, Timathius said:

This thread is probably one of the most toxic things I have seen in a while on this forum, and that’s saying something.

Yea I do enjoy playing bombs and Sabine on Miranda at high level play. I am having fun playing xwing still, just like I have for the past few years. I am sorry that you don’t, but man trying to make people feel awful for what they play in a game about imaginary space ships is the epitome of sour grapes.

The meta has always had lists that are annoying to play against. If you don’t like playing against, or playing with, the current competitive meta have you considered NOT playing in competitive events? Instead of just coming to the forum and complaining about it, have you tried to DO something about it? Have you organized movie ship tournies, Hotac, campaigns, draft leagues, or anything for your community besides these events? The answer is probably no. You just want the game to be what you want it to be, and since you can’t have that right now you feel the need to guilt trip the players that are still playing the game and having fun. It’s like you are trying to smash a square peg through a round hole and when it doesn’t work asking the person with a round peg “Are you even having fun?”

I agree. As a newer player I used to get super frustrated playing against the meta. I didnt even know what Meta was since this is my first game like this. That actually lead to a lot of confusion on part, I just didnt understand how these things work.

Running into....Kanan/Biggs, Regen Miranda, RAC/Kylo, and now Nym, it was super discouraging. But once I started actually taking the advice of experienced players (especially on this forum) things got way easier and a ton more fun.

Their advice was usually some combination of this:

• Flying Non-Meta lists against Meta-Lists is a personal choice. Expect more losses unless you have something else like "skill" to compensate for your self imposed list restrictions.
• Play to learn and eventually win more later.
• Adjust to your meta regardless of the context, competitive or casual, always adjust
• Fly Casual has nothing to do with your list or your opponents list. Its about being a nice person which is unrelated to the plastic ships that are in front of you.
• Its not ok to tell other players they are playing the game "wrong" because you have some arbitrary standard for what "correct" looks like.
• Its ok to debate whether or not they are a bit to far ahead of the average power curve ( Nym, Miranda, Dengar, etc. )
• Use the best ships and cards available to your favorite faction. If you don't know what those are ask someone who does.

Final Comment: Kylo Ren is actually super fun because he allows me to use Whisper or Vader or QD or other Aces below PS10 consistently in a Two Ship turret heavy meta.

1 hour ago, ficklegreendice said:

because it's 5 points, range 1 only on what's basically a b-wing

also because you don't come out of stupid situations unscathed. Armada knows you don't cuddle up to a star destroyer's nose without getting wrecked, so why should a blocked ace getting shot at range 1 escape unscathed?

Because I always attack star destroyers from the front in X-Wings?
Star Wars lasers are so slow that evading of turbo lasers in a fighter is trivial and anyone who can not do it should be transferred into Phoenix squadron

It star wars, it full of cuddling with way too many guns and getting out without as much as a scratch.

Winning is fun.

1 minute ago, Chumbalaya said:

Winning is fun.

Actually … it can get rather boring.

10 minutes ago, Chumbalaya said:

Winning is fun.

Boba Fett & Darth Vader are fun to.

and if it doesnt....just blame dat dice and your opponents list

Imperial only player (like you didn't know). Kylo crew is a tricky one right now. I generally won't play RACylo+Ace in friendly games, unless I've told my opponent ahead of time and they're OK with it. As far as competitively, it's one of the only things that is propping up Imps right now. I know lots of people have called for a nerf on Kylo due to how NPE he is, and I can sympathize to some extent, but if he gets nerfed (in the current meta) Imperials are GONE. **** they're almost already gone, if we lose our only good 'OP' card, you'll just never see Imps at an event ever again. Some Scumwing players are probably cool with that though, especially Alex Davy.