Serious question. For those of you that play Nym, TLTs, Kylo crew, Sabine Crew, Lowhhrick/Biggs, Kanan/Biggs, etc., etc. it is fun? Maybe I don't get it.

I just came from a small store tournament where the Nym meta was in full force. - Nym/Miranda each with TLT, + Sabine. - Nym/Dengar with Genius/K-4 and bombs, bombs, bombs.

I ask because the guy I played last had the Nym/Miranda list which if you're not familiar with it is essentially him doing what amounts to auto damage round after round where my green dice mean little to nothing until its over. I certainly wasn't having fun, but I expected that. What I didn't expect was that my opponent didn't seem to be enjoying himself either, he looked like he was at the DMV to pay a fine so he could get his car out of the impound lot. And he wasn't the only one.

So why do you play these lists? Is it fun for you? How so? What is the appeal? dominance? 'Cause right now, it just sucks and I'm not sure it's worth playing any more.

Not against these guys anyways.

Going through the motions I guess? Caught in the ol' sunk-cost fallacy of continuing to collect and play a game you no longer like because of the money you already put into it?

Time to fly casual !

8 minutes ago, cleardave said:

Going through the motions I guess? Caught in the ol' sunk-cost fallacy of continuing to collect and play a game you no longer like because of the money you already put into it?

Probably this. I'm happy to play a meta list occasionally but I absolutely must enjoy flying it 4-5 times a day. Although I must admit I haven't really played since Store Champs.

like cheating in a single player game

2 minutes ago, Giledhil said:

Time to fly casual !

Oh, I do. I'm just trying to find out why people support this form of play when the fun is obviously no longer present.

I'm middle aged. I don't have time for things that don't elevate me or make me feel bad.

I think we're in the same ****. I have two small kids so my gaming time is limited, and I don't have time to waste playing something I don't really enjoy.
So now I'm playing exclusively with the few parterns in my area that I know also dislike that awful meta.

My friends and I started challenging each other with certain specifics before the match (i.e. only PS 5+ TiE-Fighter pilots, no ion, small/large ships only, or "hey, bring your Corvette, but don't give it any guns!").

It's a neat thing to do when you get oversaturated with something. It's not an outright ban and forces players to think around corners. Usually, after a couple of rounds, it's fine to play against the "Meta" again.

Royally fed up of bomb wing. I don’t actually mind Nym, I think Miranda is far far more toxic, and Sabine just wrecks it all. Wave 13 looks set to make it even worse. I’m booked in for one more big tournament and then I’m leaving the tournament scene except for supporting my FLGS.

Im playing some team Epic next week. Really looking forward to it, getting proper Star Wars ships on the table Going to start a HotAC Squadron at my club and avoid 100/6 as much as possible. X-wing is an amazing game, but the competetive meta is sucking all the fun out of it for me.

So, I wasn't playing turrets & bombs then made a deliberate decision to start playing them even though they weren't really my bag.

They're a lot of fun. It almost immediately feels much more powerful than the Imperial aces I was flying before, and it really changes your mindset. You spend a lot of the time as Imperial really stressing about how you can possibly get a shot, or get out of arc, or out of bomb range, or into range 1 of a TLT... it's not good for the nerves.

When you switch to playing the Nym/Miranda/Dengars of this world the experience flips and it becomes much more enjoyable. You're planning your moves with fewer restrictions, you're barrel-rolling Dengar's arc onto the target just right, you're patting yourself on the back for cunningly getting into just the right spot to drop a bomb... it all feels like you're doing something really well, just running rings around your opponents.

When you step back and look at the disparity in those two experiences, though, it simply stems from that one side is difficult to do AND weaker, while the other side is easier to do AND stronger. Same player, same opponent even, but you flip your emotional investment/reward in the game from something negative to something very positive.

I think people play turrets the same way people get addicted to painkillers. It's easier and it makes life feel good.

4 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

So, I wasn't playing turrets & bombs then made a deliberate decision to start playing them even though they weren't really my bag.

They're a lot of fun. It almost immediately feels much more powerful than the Imperial aces I was flying before, and it really changes your mindset. You spend a lot of the time as Imperial really stressing about how you can possibly get a shot, or get out of arc, or out of bomb range, or into range 1 of a TLT... it's not good for the nerves.

When you switch to playing the Nym/Miranda/Dengars of this world the experience flips and it becomes much more enjoyable. You're planning your moves with fewer restrictions, you're barrel-rolling Dengar's arc onto the target just right, you're patting yourself on the back for cunningly getting into just the right spot to drop a bomb... it all feels like you're doing something really well, just running rings around your opponents.

When you step back and look at the disparity in those two experiences, though, it simply stems from that one side is difficult to do AND weaker, while the other side is easier to do AND stronger. Same player, same opponent even, but you flip your emotional investment/reward in the game from something negative to something very positive.

I think people play turrets the same way people get addicted to painkillers. It's easier and it makes life feel good.

Funny, that's all the contrary on my side. Winning using turrets and/or bombers (I used to fly my Warden a lot some time ago) just feels cheap.

Isn't it the way since the TLT was introduced? I remember the day I played against the top player in my store. She played Imp Aces with pre nerf Palp. 1st Game I played an x/z/Falcon and lost horrible. When I played 4 B-Wing and lost horrible. §rd round I played 3Ywings with TLT and wrecked her... didn't felt like I earned it.

But that’s the problem - Dengar, has an open dial - pretty much everything is white or green. With EU becomes more or less the best arc dodger in the game. Can use K4 and Expertise to make every shot fully modified. In a dogfight, where is the challenge? Move last, put the ship where you like and modify the dice as much as you like until your enemy cries. Miranda can kite about regenning or just slam away if she doesn’t like it. You can’t kill her without turrets, and she can just pump the board full of bombs to limit your options. For all the fun I have playing against her I might as well set up my ships backwards and fly off the board in my first turn and go get a drink!

I could never bring a list that just brought frustration to my enemy - it’s supposed to be fun! Then again, I fly x-wings so I know I’m weird.

5 minutes ago, Giledhil said:

Funny, that's all the contrary on my side. Winning using turrets and/or bombers (I used to fly my Warden a lot some time ago) just feels cheap.

I've not got there yet.

When I won a game with my Imperials, even if it was convincing win, most of the time I'd be relieved that I got away with it despite my occasional mistakes. When I win a game with my turreted bombers I usually just feel sorry for my opponent, who got comprehensively outflown by a better pilot.

I'm not a better pilot when I use turrets, though - if anything I'm worse because I've got loads of experience of flying my Imperials. But playing turrets & bombs makes me FEEL like a better pilot. Makes me feel ready to tell somebody to git gud.

Yes, Nym+Corran is a lot of fun to fly.

The bombing meta hasn't really hit us too hard locally yet, I used to play Miranda a lot when she first dropped and I've used bombing wardens at a double asteroid event before. I've had great fun flying K-wings but they do take a bit of planning, especially with 12 rocks on the board. I've never used Nym but I don't doubt he'll be fun to fly sometime. What I'm saying is; yes. People can and do have fun playing with and against these lists, however, if it's the new hotness people will net list it and try to fly it with no experience thinking it'll win them those shiny bits of acrylic. That's where the pained expressions come in; people who do not understand how to use the list fully trying to fly it for wins.

10 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

I've not got there yet.

When I won a game with my Imperials, even if it was convincing win, most of the time I'd be relieved that I got away with it despite my occasional mistakes. When I win a game with my turreted bombers I usually just feel sorry for my opponent, who got comprehensively outflown by a better pilot.

I'm not a better pilot when I use turrets, though - if anything I'm worse because I've got loads of experience of flying my Imperials. But playing turrets & bombs makes me FEEL like a better pilot. Makes me feel ready to tell somebody to git gud.

I kind of agree here; turrets do make things easier for sure and the pillars of the game Imperials were built around simply don't hold much weight anymore. Imps were developed as the arc dodging, hyper green die modding faction who live and die by variance and precision flying. The problem with bombing turrets is that you simply can't dodge EVERYTHING nor mod green dice when they are not rolled (bombs, ABT, etc.). At a competitive level; turrets are pretty much like insurance. They're in your list and although you may be trying for Dengars arc; it doesn't matter if it doesn't work. You've still got that shot anyways maybe with expertise, maybe you can even drop a cluster AND debris on someone too...

All this said; I have sooooo much fun using a bombing Deathfire at an OT tournament this weekend. He was most definitely my MVP and put the Dark Lord of the Sith to shame.

The game needs more bombers like Deathfire, fewer bombers like Miranda/Nym.

26/27pts for Deathfire gets you a great little ship, interesting to fly but completely balanced. Which is why he's nowhere near good enough.

Yup, bombs could be fun, if PS was capped at a reasonable value (plus the incoming Adv. SLAM nerf, that I find really nice, I already began to play my Experimental Interfaced Warden, and having to deal with a small drawback after a bombing run feels way better).

Deathfire w/ LRS, EM, Clusters and Cruise missiles was an utter blast to fly and clocks in at 26pts. He'd be no good in the current competitive meta, agreed, but sooooo much fun in the OT format.

Just now, Smutpedler said:

Deathfire w/ LRS, EM, Clusters and Cruise missiles was an utter blast to fly and clocks in at 26pts. He'd be no good in the current competitive meta, agreed, but sooooo much fun in the OT format.

Which shows just how far we've come in a short while - he was winning Regionals at the start of the year (w/ Homing Missiles at 28pts).

57 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

So, I wasn't playing turrets & bombs then made a deliberate decision to start playing them even though they weren't really my bag.

They're a lot of fun. It almost immediately feels much more powerful than the Imperial aces I was flying before, and it really changes your mindset. You spend a lot of the time as Imperial really stressing about how you can possibly get a shot, or get out of arc, or out of bomb range, or into range 1 of a TLT... it's not good for the nerves.

When you switch to playing the Nym/Miranda/Dengars of this world the experience flips and it becomes much more enjoyable. You're planning your moves with fewer restrictions, you're barrel-rolling Dengar's arc onto the target just right, you're patting yourself on the back for cunningly getting into just the right spot to drop a bomb... it all feels like you're doing something really well, just running rings around your opponents.

When you step back and look at the disparity in those two experiences, though, it simply stems from that one side is difficult to do AND weaker, while the other side is easier to do AND stronger. Same player, same opponent even, but you flip your emotional investment/reward in the game from something negative to something very positive.

I think people play turrets the same way people get addicted to painkillers. It's easier and it makes life feel good.

Sounds like Dark Side to me...

I think for a lot of people winning supersedes how they won, especially when it comes to the bigger tournaments. I have been turned off with bomb wing I will say though, I completely understand why people do it, ie why bother maybe rolling hits when you can guarantee them, it has just lost the feel of Star wars for me and could be any generic space fighter board game at the moment.

I think there needs to be a 2.0 soon, rehash everything they should have done and hopefully be a lot more balanced.

Just now, Stay On The Leader said:

Which shows just how far we've come in a short while - he was winning Regionals at the start of the year (w/ Homing Missiles at 28pts).

At first I didn't really notice the power creep as everyone was flying the new stuff so, locally at least, we were all on a similar point in the power curve. Recently, however, I really have noticed how much the game has jumped up in power levels and complexity. I'm starting to feel in an odd place about x-wing for the first time in my 3(?) years playing; I still love the game but it certainly feels... different. The OT tourney last weekend really showed me that in all honesty. The TIE Bomber was the closest thing to a solid bomber available and it's... not exactly known for it's bombing prowess. Really made it feel like dogfighting again. I like bombs being in the game and I like the game growing and expanding but... it is different now.

For me, the game is almost always fun, but it's only fun while both sides have a common goal: if you both play meta, it's fun; if you both go thematic, fun etc. When both players are playing optimized meta lists its actually cool again. Also bombers actually require skill and some creativity in my opinion, they're certainly not easy mode.

Nope not fun. I'm at a near all time low for urge to go out to play the game.

I had some fun with Fenn Dengar Inaldra Mindlink honestly. And Palp Aces was fun. I find all 2ship large-quasi-fat ship meta boring and dumb.