39 minutes ago, geek19 said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again: As a Rebel player, I'm looking forward to killing Thrawn. If I'm lucky, I do it before he gets off all 3 of his commands, too. He's going to be good, but he won't be an automatic win.

He has his engineering command ready to use

5 hours ago, ovinomanc3r said:

1. Trigger boarding actions not caring about enemy ICBs or slicers and not wasting the officer slot with veteran captains.

2. Command squadrons not caring about enemy slicers at the same time you navigate.

3. Ey! Look at this! An engineering command just at time.

4. 3 rounds of combat. All of them with additional dice and without loosing more valuable commands like squadrons or navigate.

5. Gozantis that provide tokens at the same time they use a dial.

6. Double speed change. Boosted engineering commands. +1 squadron activation without hangar. Dice+reroll.

7. Actually almost whatever you could imagine you will need eventually.

Ok so here's the question: Do you resolve both dials? as full dials?

Each ship resolves two dials that turn? (Sounds hilariously more powerful than Garm lol. That's a good thing.)

My question is actually literally what does the card say? Am I the only one who thinks its confusing to read?

24 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Ok so here's the question: Do you resolve both dials? as full dials?

Yes as long as they are not the same command. In that case you can bank the ship dial as token but not Thrawn's one.

Each ship resolves two dials that turn? (Sounds hilariously more powerful than Garm lol. That's a good thing.)

Basically: yes they do.

My question is actually literally what does the card say? Am I the only one who thinks its confusing to read?

After deploying fleets, place 3 facedown command dials on this card. At the star of each Ship Phase, you may reveal and discard 1 of those dials. If you do, until he end of the round, before each friendly ship activates, it gains 1 additional dial matching that discarded dial.

What means you choose three commands (not necessarily different). Then each Ship Phase, at the start, you may choose to use Thrawn or not. If you do discard 1 dial revealing it. Then, each time you are going to activate a ship, give it a dial like that you discarded first. Then proceed as normally revealing the top dial and doing with it whatever you want. At the end that ship has two dials to work with. But any other rule applies normally like you cannot resolve the same command twice. And there is also the fact that as long as spending two dials of the same command is not covered by the rules (as happened with Leia and her "double tokens") it has not effect at all.

Not sure if you are the only one. I find Hondo far harder to guess what the **** he does

Yes, each of your ships gets two dials that turn. Though I think that unless the ships command dial was different from the Trawn dial you have to convert the ship's dial to a token or lose it.

What Thrawn does is give you 3 dials set at the start of the game that you can spend one of at the start of any turn to give every ship in your fleet an extra dial that turn.

One obvious (but not terribly optimal) application of this is to put a Navigate and and 2x Engineering commands on Thrawn, Then use the navigate to get your ships in position while still allowing them their Concentrate fire/Squadron command, followed next two turns by Engineering to repair your whole fleet while again letting them Concentrate fire activate squadrons or navigate as per their own comamnd dial. As a bonus the Dial Thrawn gives can't be targeted by things like slicer tools, so you can be more confident that you get an important command at the right time.

Once I would like to read a longer post or article about designing the card from the initial thought to the final form. It would be very interesting to look into the development process, seeing the tossed-out ideas, learning about the obstacles etc.

k, thanks @ovinomanc3r. That's what I guessed, but wanted to be sure.

Is there a reason why you cannot convert the Thrawn dial to a token???

1 minute ago, Blail Blerg said:

k, thanks @ovinomanc3r. That's what I guessed, but wanted to be sure.

Is there a reason why you cannot convert the Thrawn dial to a token???

JJ can describe better than I (and the forum won't let me tag him), but essentially the difference is that you have to choose between the token or the dial when the dial is revealed. You aren't revealing Thrawn's dial, you're issued it, so it has to remain a dial.

7 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

k, thanks @ovinomanc3r. That's what I guessed, but wanted to be sure.

Is there a reason why you cannot convert the Thrawn dial to a token???

Basically this:

4 minutes ago, GiledPallaeon said:

JJ can describe better than I (and the forum won't let me tag him), but essentially the difference is that you have to choose between the token or the dial when the dial is revealed. You aren't revealing Thrawn's dial, you're issued it, so it has to remain a dial.

When you reveal the dial you choose to gain a token or gain the dial. Thrawn made the choice for you.

I was not completely sure about it as my reading of the rules didn't find anything like "gaining" dials but I trust JJ about how it is intended to work.

Can I just point out for posterity that this is a confusion that is not easy to disprove just by reading the card?

Can I also point out that the card itself is already difficult to understand?

Please note that this is constructive criticism, not negative frantic bashery as everyone thinks any little argument must be won completely and all negativity should be snuffed out?

It is however, easily proved with a look a the rules reference.

Also, there are only so many words one can fit on a card...

9 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Can I just point out for posterity that this is a confusion that is not easy to disprove just by reading the card?

Can I also point out that the card itself is already difficult to understand?

Please note that this is constructive criticism, not negative frantic bashery as everyone thinks any little argument must be won completely and all negativity should be snuffed out?

It may not be easy to disprove by reading the card.

It may be kind of difficult to understand.

But its a full card.

And, in the end, that's why we got the Card's Designer to tell us the way its supposed to work

1 hour ago, Turtlewing said:

Yes, each of your ships gets two dials that turn. Though I think that unless the ships command dial was different from the Trawn dial you have to convert the ship's dial to a token or lose it.

What Thrawn does is give you 3 dials set at the start of the game that you can spend one of at the start of any turn to give every ship in your fleet an extra dial that turn.

One obvious (but not terribly optimal) application of this is to put a Navigate and and 2x Engineering commands on Thrawn, Then use the navigate to get your ships in position while still allowing them their Concentrate fire/Squadron command, followed next two turns by Engineering to repair your whole fleet while again letting them Concentrate fire activate squadrons or navigate as per their own comamnd dial. As a bonus the Dial Thrawn gives can't be targeted by things like slicer tools, so you can be more confident that you get an important command at the right time.

Or do the reverse (also probably not optimal): set 2 Concentrate Fire and one Squadron dials. Then, Set ships to Navigate and Engineering. Might need to it this way around for fleets where some ships are more nimble than others and need to adjust speed at different rates? Also, if on one turn ALL your ships have a squadron command, you may not need a carrier at all for some fleets, even with a lot of squads.

4 minutes ago, JJs Juggernaut said:

It is however, easily proved with a look a the rules reference.

Also, there are only so many words one can fit on a card...

Would you be willing to go through the logical process? Bear in mind, I think I understand the game rules well (and I'm rarely wrong in a ruling), but I'm not known for the ability to recall the rulebook exactly. I've got more of a logic-feel for how the rules tend to be.

Yes, perhaps they could be better? Is it possible to say this without being offensive?

11 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Would you be willing to go through the logical process? Bear in mind, I think I understand the game rules well (and I'm rarely wrong in a ruling), but I'm not known for the ability to recall the rulebook exactly. I've got more of a logic-feel for how the rules tend to be.

Yes, perhaps they could be better? Is it possible to say this without being offensive?

About the token conversion issue:

From the RRG:

Reveal Command Dial: Reveal the ship’s top command dial. Then either place the dial next to the ship in the play area or spend the dial to place the corresponding command token next to the ship in the play area.

You are allowed to make the choice about a revealed dial. You got Thrawn's dial before activating so no token option. That's my guess.

About two dials resolution issue:

From the RRG :

A ship can resolve the effect of a command by spending a command dial or command token [...]

OR

A ship can spend both a command dial and a command token to combine their effects.

Three options. Any of them implies dials

I wonder how powerful his ability will be. No command from thrawn will be used by all ships, more like 1 or 2 ships per turn and they cannot be turned into tokens. People might feel a couple extra commands are not worth it, and cannot be min maxed effectively like ackbar. So the thrawn commands are mostly to correct decisions, like having skilled first officer for all ships. Seeing how nobody likes the command altering upgrades (except skilled first officer), I wouldnt be surprised if thrawn is perceived as underwhelming.

On the other hand fixing command dials and having 2 dials at once will be insane with isds vsds and interdictors. He will be seen with big ships only. Fixing a command with these ships even for 1 ship can be a game changer, and not having to put officers on all of them is amazing. Makes me wish the liaisons would also give a second dial instead of what they do.

Hopefully rebels get some command fixing admiral too.

50 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

You got Thrawn's dial before activating so no token option. That's my guess.

We don't have a word for how you "get" thrawn's dial. You use the word "issued", but that isn't a word like assign is in Xwing for assigning a token. Now, I will admit, the basic idea/guess is pretty easy. This is all how I thought Thrawn would work (excepting that you can't tokenize thrawn's dial), but the wording is unclear where I'd rather ask to be sure. And there's already a million things in this game that are difficult to grasp.

50 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

About two dials resolution issue:

Here too, theres no written material on what if you have TWO dials. What does that mean?

I think there's also an implied assumption somewhere about what it means to get a dial, or be "given" a dial, or even the state of "having" two dials. Then a question of the delayed spend and result tree of spending commands. Do you decide what you're going to do with both dials first? In a certain order? Do you totally resolve something or no? Why if you are given a dial, can you not choose to convert it to a token? If I have a dial, does that mean I've skipped this crazy step where I've decided I cannot spend it for a token, yet I can spend it for its effect? I don't ahve to choose to spend a dial at the reveal for instance, like on Concentrate Fire. I can say I have the dial, wait and see what I roll, and then if i want, choose not to reroll any dice (or begging the question, choose not to spend the dial). Is there such a state as "having" a dial? What is the reminder marker for that? It seems not the physical dial itself!

10 hours ago, Megatronrex said:

They're really missing the boat by not making a Rogue Squadron TV series.

I suspect the next disney series...Wedge is already in it as well as hobby(though i think hobby died at some point in the movies, this is where my "not that big of a star wars fan" shines out).

1 hour ago, Blail Blerg said:

We don't have a word for how you "get" thrawn's dial. You use the word "issued", but that isn't a word like assign is in Xwing for assigning a token. Now, I will admit, the basic idea/guess is pretty easy. This is all how I thought Thrawn would work (excepting that you can't tokenize thrawn's dial), but the wording is unclear where I'd rather ask to be sure. And there's already a million things in this game that are difficult to grasp.

Here too, theres no written material on what if you have TWO dials. What does that mean?

I think there's also an implied assumption somewhere about what it means to get a dial, or be "given" a dial, or even the state of "having" two dials. Then a question of the delayed spend and result tree of spending commands. Do you decide what you're going to do with both dials first? In a certain order? Do you totally resolve something or no? Why if you are given a dial, can you not choose to convert it to a token? If I have a dial, does that mean I've skipped this crazy step where I've decided I cannot spend it for a token, yet I can spend it for its effect? I don't ahve to choose to spend a dial at the reveal for instance, like on Concentrate Fire. I can say I have the dial, wait and see what I roll, and then if i want, choose not to reroll any dice (or begging the question, choose not to spend the dial). Is there such a state as "having" a dial? What is the reminder marker for that? It seems not the physical dial itself!

I don't mean to be rude, but there are several threads on the rule forum that cover all the details already, I don't really care to rehash them here. Short version. "gained" (thrawn) is different than "revealed" (regular command).

1 hour ago, dominosfleet said:

I suspect the next disney series...Wedge is already in it as well as hobby(though i think hobby died at some point in the movies, this is where my "not that big of a star wars fan" shines out).

Yeah I wouldn't be surprised if a Rogue Squadron show was animated. I'd certainly watch it. I would massively prefer a live action show though. Something similar to Battlestar Galactica with a more mature target audience. I think a live action series would have a greater mass market appeal than the animated shows do.

18 minutes ago, Megatronrex said:

Yeah I wouldn't be surprised if a Rogue Squadron show was animated. I'd certainly watch it. I would massively prefer a live action show though. Something similar to Battlestar Galactica with a more mature target audience. I think a live action series would have a greater mass market appeal than the animated shows do.

with disney in charge i doubt it'll happen. I was surprised Rogue went as dark as it did but i don't think disney will go further.

2 hours ago, dominosfleet said:

I suspect the next disney series...Wedge is already in it as well as hobby(though i think hobby died at some point in the movies, this is where my "not that big of a star wars fan" shines out).

Hobbie was on Hoth, and according to the old canon (pushes up Harry Potter style glasses) he survived for years after. If you want to get into it (pushes up glasses again), Wedge never was in the Imperial academy. Biggs was, and he got his entire class to defect with him, but Wedge was flying for the Rebellion early, after his parents died (adjusts pocket protector). In fact, Hobbie, Janson, Tycho, and Corran all joined up post-Yavin (Corran post Endor, but Tycho can be seen in Jedi as the A-wing pilot who doesn't die/escapes the Death Star). The only other pilot who was at the first Death Star (sucks on inhaler) was Keyan Farlander in that lone remaining Y-wing. I mean, technically Dutch was there too, but you know.... "lost Tyree, lost Dutch......"

This has been "Information you didn't care to know but I wanted to tell it anyway!"

Well, they've now Rebels-Canon'd to say that Wedge did attend the Skystrike academy.

He just defected before graduating, along with Hobbie.

So he attended, at least.

Hey so not sure if anyone is interested but we tried a game with a proxied Thrawn the other day. We are nowhere as skilled as many on these forums but all the concern about how powerful he’ll be seems unwarented. @SgtDurandal ran him in a 3 VSD fleet and used Thrawn for continuous nav dials. With some fleet tweaking he might have something pretty good, but Thrawn by himself isn't as scary as I feared. Major downfall there were the squads he brought and a bad objective that didn’t work with his strategic shuttles.

4 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

Well, they've now Rebels-Canon'd to say that Wedge did attend the Skystrike academy.

He just defected before graduating, along with Hobbie.

So he attended, at least.

And, similarly, in the newcanon, Hobbie has a different final fate, as well - On The Front Lines makes it clear that he died at Hoth.

8 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

We don't have a word for how you "get" thrawn's dial. You use the word "issued", but that isn't a word like assign is in Xwing for assigning a token. Now, I will admit, the basic idea/guess is pretty easy. This is all how I thought Thrawn would work (excepting that you can't tokenize thrawn's dial), but the wording is unclear where I'd rather ask to be sure. And there's already a million things in this game that are difficult to grasp.

Let's say "gain". That is what Thrawn says. But that is not the question. The thing is that Thrawn's dial is not revealed duting the "reveal dial" step and because that you cannot make a decision about it to turn into a token or not. I used "issue" as "conflicting topic" maybe not the correct word. The wording on Thrawn is quite clear I think but of course you need to look at the RRG to clarify some things. Not because they are not clear rather than they are new and you need to know how interacts with rules. It is a similar case as Sloane. What the defender can or cannot do with his spent defense token was clearly written in the RRG. Just happened that the attacker spending tokens was new and we needed to check the rule to realiza that some apply just when is the defender who spent and others apply always. The same here. Look that "gain" command tokens is not in the rules either but we know what it means and is the word used by Tarkin (core set).

9 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Here too, theres no written material on what if you have TWO dials. What does that mean?

There are rules that explain you can resolve any number of commands. As long as they are not the same. To resolve a command you may spend a dial OR a token OR a dial+token. So from here out get that you may resolve up to 4 commands (until anything else modifies this) spending the correct dial, token or combination of both. To spend several dials was never forbidden as to spend several tokens never was. The conflict could appear when you have two dials of the same command. Then you still apply the rules: you may spend 1 dial, 1 token or 1 dial+1token to resolvethree different effects. You cannot spend 2 dials and even if you do you don't know what effect it would have. And you cannot spend each dial as a single command cause you cannot resolve the same twice.

9 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

I think there's also an implied assumption somewhere about what it means to get a dial, or be "given" a dial, or even the state of "having" two dials. Then a question of the delayed spend and result tree of spending commands. Do you decide what you're going to do with both dials first? In a certain order?

You decide what to do with your dial at the appropriate time (per the rules). Even when you reveal you don't have to say that your are going to use the dial. You just choose if you want the token or not. Eventually, an upgrade could allow you to get the token spending a dial you didn't use during your activation. If both commands have the same timing the you choose what order. Just as happens with the tokens.

9 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Do you totally resolve something or no?

Effects are always resolved completely before moving to the next one. Only if some effect make you do something and that something is the timing for other thing you could "interrupt" but we don't have anything like that yet I think.

9 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Why if you are given a dial, can you not choose to convert it to a token? If I have a dial, does that mean I've skipped this crazy step where I've decided I cannot spend it for a token, yet I can spend it for its effect? I don't ahve to choose to spend a dial at the reveal for instance, like on Concentrate Fire. I can say I have the dial, wait and see what I roll, and then if i want, choose not to reroll any dice (or begging the question, choose not to spend the dial).

Cause you didn't revealed. When you reveal a command you don't have to say your are going to use it. You just have to say if you want the token or not. Then, at the appropriate time you have to say if you approve going to resolve that command spending the dial or the token. To think that you must say if you are going to use your dial during the revealing step is a mistake. If it was this way then "After a ship finishes its activation, if it did not spend its command dial, that dial is discarded." (From the RRG) has no sense at all as you had to spend the dial even without resolving its effect. That is the reason cause you cannot get the token but still resolve a command spending the dial given by Thrawn.

9 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Is there such a state as "having" a dial? What is the reminder marker for that? It seems not the physical dial itself!

Reveal Command Dial: Reveal the ship’s top command dial. Then either place the dial next to the ship in the play area or spend the dial to place the corresponding command token next to the ship in the play area.

As "having a dial".

After a ship activates, place its revealed command dial faceup on its ship card to track that it has activated.

When a command dial is spent or discarded, it is placed faceup on the ship’s ship card and remains there
until it is assigned as a new command during the next.

To track activation. This also indicates the dial is spent or discarded.

[...] placed under any other command dials already assigned to that ship.

As assigned.

I think is quite physical!!