Ok so I've gotten into a lengthy conversation about the interaction of these 2 cards. With what the flow chart says is both of these cards should go off in between steps 6 and 7. The TLT hits and if there is an uncancelled crit at this point on the flow chart harpooned should detonate. THEN you cancel all dice results and deal one damage. Correct? The only thing I can think of that might counter this is the person with initiative is supposed to resolve their triggers first. Any thoughts?

I'm pretty sure you're right, it'll come down to init.

Step 6 IV on the flow chart is where you determine if the attack hits. At that point you would then interrupt the process to deal with the "when hit by an attack"/"this attack hits" before proceeding to step 7. Unless FFG specifically defines the timing window for either card in an upcoming FAQ initiative will decide which card triggers first. The attacker has to resolve the TLT process and the defender has to resolve the Harpooned! condition, if you're running a TLT + Harpoon missile list best to have an initiative bid so you can force Harpooned! to be dealt with first...

+1 fake internet point for posting the actual cards.

When exactly do you cancel the dice from your TLT? It kind of reads like as part of determining that you hit your target, you deal 1 damage and cancel your other dice. If you haven't resolved that clause in its entirety, you haven't determined that you've hit at all, let alone have an uncancelled crit to trigger Harpooned! . Can you interrupt this determination to trigger Harpooned! , or does the dice cancel effect from TLT occur after you've already determined it's hit but after some indefinite interval and you can have a list of abilities that trigger during this interval? Could Draw their Fire be used at this point to cancel the crit, or Bossk's pilot ability?

I hate to double post, but I kept thinking about this and wondered if it is a similar interaction as Tractor Beam and Ruthlessness. When the tractor beam hits, you must do the boost or barrel roll action to complete the attack and only then do you measure range for ruthlessness, as per the FAQ. Would that then set a precedent that a TLT attack would need to be completed in it's entirety, i.e. canceling all dice and dealing 1 damage, before moving on to other effects? I saw in the FAQ that Bossk's ability is resolved before your opponent has the option to resolve his effect, so presumably he couldn't trigger Harpooned! and then cancel that crit for 2 hits. Presumably if your opponent also had effects like Draw their Fire or Prince Xizor's pilot ability, they could choose to resolve them before Harpooned! has a chance to trigger?

Just reading the cards I feel like this is likely going to come down to initiative. I'm pretty sure both would trigger at the compare results step where we determine if an attack hit. The Harpooned condition I believe is essentially "owned" by the ship it is on (which allows them to perform the action for instance), so as the TLT owner you would NOT want to have initiative thus requiring the defender to resolve their "when hit" ability first and trigger the condition before you do so with the TLT and cancel all dice.

I think. This is one I'd really like to have an official ruling on. There is some wiggle room with the TLT phrasing. The suffer damage and cancel dice steps are separated by a period and a "Then" so you could maybe argue that the "suffer one damage" and the Harpooned effect would resolve together in initiative order and then only after that would the TLT then cancel the dice.

There is semi-precedent for this with the PTL/Experimental Interface FAQ entry. Both PTL and EI say "Do this. Then do that." and you can use both on the same ship to do two extra actions then receive 2 stress because the trigger of the second one can interrupt the resolution of the first between the two sentences. It's not EXACTLY the same scenario here though so it's hard to say.

DependinDepending on which is correct I'd say you either don't want initiative or it doesn't matter, again, depending on which ruling is right.

The actually-useful precedent is Xizor's ruling - Xizor can't use his ability with a TLT shot, flat out, regardless of init or whatever. By implication, the same would be true here, and of the interaction with Draw Their Fire as well.

On 9/24/2017 at 11:11 AM, thespaceinvader said:

The actually-useful precedent is Xizor's ruling - Xizor can't use his ability with a TLT shot, flat out, regardless of init or whatever. By implication, the same would be true here, and of the interaction with Draw Their Fire as well.

The difference is that xizor triggers in the deal damage step, at which point the dice are already cancelled. Harpooned technically triggers at the same time as tlt according to the wording (I don’t think it SHOULD work, but there’s ambiguity in the wording)

Harpooned! and TLT have the same trigger step: compare dice results.

Draw Their Fire (and Selflessness for that matter) specifies the timing as after being hit by an attack.

During the compare dice results step for TLT you cancel hit and critical hit results with defense dice. If there are uncancelled* hit or critical hit results the attack hits and triggers TLT's text to cancel ALL results in the dice pool. At the completion of the compare dice results step, before the deal damage step is where DTF and Selflessness trigger - they provide a methodology to cancel uncancelled results (results left over from the compare dice results step) other than dealing damage to the targeted ship. At the stage in which DTF and Selflessness trigger the attack has already hit the defending ship so all affects that occur as a result of the attack hitting trigger (cancelling all dice in the dice pool in the case of TLT) whether or not the defending ship suffers any damage. With TLTs DTF and Selflessness do not get the chance to divert any dice results as there are zero results in the dice pool. So, long way around, Harpooned! triggers before DTF and Selflessness due to specified timing windows on DTF and Selflessness. Xizor resolves like DTF and Selflessness as far as timing is concerned, because the FAQ says so (his pilot card does not specify when in the "defending" step it triggers).

*The correct English spelling for "cancelled" is with two "l"'s. "Uncancelled" is not an accepted word in the English language and spell checking software will always mark it as incorrectly spelt. Funnily enough, if you look at the cards posted, "uncancelled" is spelt "uncanceled" (with one "l") in their card text...so the "cancelled" portion (an accepted English word) is not spelt correctly.