20 minutes ago, ScummyRebel said:

Why are people convinced the Gunboat dial will be bad? The rest of the complaints with the Gunboat I can see, compared to other ships. But the dial is not yet known.

I'm really hoping to see the Gunboat do well. I want them to be great. I'm not overly optimistic but I reserve judgment for the actual release article.

Because it has SLAM on its action bar. Having SLAM implies it will have a slow dial at best, and probably quite a limited one.

7 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Because it has SLAM on its action bar. Having SLAM implies it will have a slow dial at best, and probably quite a limited one.

This. If you give the ship a good dial AND Slam then it just gets bonkers. See the K-Wing's dial.

I could imagine a 3 k-turn that you can SLAM into.

Edit: the Mist Hunter's dial may be reasonable one to go by as a starting assumption. You get the 1 turn on there which is really good with SLAM, but it's red. You get the full bank of 2s, and then a 3k and 4 straight. Seems pretty reasonable.

we can't imagine too much about SLAM because we only have one SLAM capable ship atm (not counting one shot Burnouts)

and that ship has a turret (PWT and secondary) and can drop out action bombs post-SLAM before enemy ships can activate

the gunboat does not possess these advantages and does not necessarily have to abide by those limitations

Though if it ends up getting an ARC dial, I will be far more than happy. Doesn't even need the red 4-foward

7 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Is "Crybaby 101" part of the requisite Imperial Academy course load? Imperial players have such a persecution complex, I swear.

What I don't understand, and I have been playing mini games since the early 1980's is why do people scream bloody murder and demand a nerf when they can't beat a certain list or combo with their favorite list/combo. Instead of screaming this is broken, my xxx list can't win against it, why not try a new list or combo??? I know (and I won't list the reasons here as I don't want to start a flame war) why some folks won't but man you'll never learn how to beat a list if you keep using the same one against it time after time. And yes its not just X-Wing that has a problem with certain lists combo's all mini games that run tournament's and event season's have them, having run national events for game company's at GenCon I've seen it/heard it all before. My personal view (and yes its just my view here) is that if FFG nerfed everything everyone wanted nerfed the game would be dominated by three- maybe four lists/combo's I think. I don't know I just wanted to ask this question.

22 minutes ago, Ghostrider58 said:

My personal view (and yes its just my view here) is that if FFG nerfed everything everyone wanted nerfed the game would be dominated by three- maybe four lists/combo's I think. I don't know I just wanted to ask this question.

It's a common misconception. All the evidence from other games systems is that this isn't the case.

27 minutes ago, Ghostrider58 said:

My personal view (and yes its just my view here) is that if FFG nerfed everything everyone wanted nerfed the game would be dominated by three- maybe four lists/combo's I think. I don't know I just wanted to ask this question.

I mean, this is pretty much the case right now, so...

1 minute ago, thespaceinvader said:

I mean, this is pretty much the case right now, so...

not as a result of the nerfs, though

see: jumpmasters

I honestly do not believe un-errated x7s or palp would fare super well in this meta regardless

55 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Because it has SLAM on its action bar. Having SLAM implies it will have a slow dial at best, and probably quite a limited one.

Well, the K actually have a great dial with no red, and it's the only slam ship in the game. And with adv. Slam (the old one) in the box!

We can hope something similar for the Gunboat. More that than a B wing.

2 minutes ago, Cerve said:

Well, the K actually have a great dial with no red, and it's the only slam ship in the game. And with adv. Slam (the old one) in the box!

We can hope something similar for the Gunboat. More that than a B wing.

B-Wing dial is much better than the K-Wings dial. What are you talking about?

59 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Because it has SLAM on its action bar. Having SLAM implies it will have a slow dial at best, and probably quite a limited one.

We have one ship with slam so far, so I wouldn't assume anything. The Kwing also has lots of other advantages the Gunboat does not, so perhaps the Gunboat will make up for it with the dial plus things that haven't been fully spoiled yet.

3 minutes ago, Cerve said:

Well, the K actually have a great dial with no red, and it's the only slam ship in the game. And with adv. Slam (the old one) in the box!

We can hope something similar for the Gunboat. More that than a B wing.

It has a very slow and limited dial though, with only one speed of turn and no k turns. I'm hoping for something a little better.

4 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

not as a result of the nerfs, though

see: jumpmasters

I honestly do not believe un-errated x7s or palp would fare super well in this meta regardless

Nope.

TBH a small number of best lists rising to the top is the natural state of this or any game with this amount of flexibility.

Something will ALWAYS be best.

The trick is to make the thing that's best fun to fly, and fun to fly against.

4 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

not as a result of the nerfs, though

see: jumpmasters

I honestly do not believe un-errated x7s or palp would fare super well in this meta regardless

They wouldn't, that doesn't mean the errata was wrong though - they were good changes.

1 minute ago, Stay On The Leader said:

They wouldn't, that doesn't mean the errata was wrong though - they were good changes.

oh I completely agree

I love the new x7s because there are consequences now to flying poorly

jump nerfs just didnt go far enough

@OP

I think you are a little too fast to judge the ship. We don't know about it or the wave as a whole to make a call on whether the ship will be good or not. Not to mention the highly anticipated FAQ. New waves shift the meta pretty drastically sometimes, and we have Guns for Hire coming up as well. It's really tough to predict until we get shown everything.

Even with what little we do know about it, it is an interesting piece with good options. At the very least we need to see the dial (i.e. how fast can it go to disengage and use the reload action) There are plenty of unspoiled upgrades in this wave that may also be really important to the Gunboat's success.

4 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

Not really, just find it a bit ironic that it's you talking about "600 pages of whining". Surely that would be the title of your autobiography?

Edit: Two volumes. (obviously)

LOL, game, set, match on this one. ???

5 hours ago, Giledhil said:

VI Vinder will be PS9.
But anything with a big gun shoud do, since you can redirect the target in front of your firing ship with the tractor beam shot.

Hlc defender..... rise!!! (Okay maybe not, but I miss my hlc defender. Double tap and evades are nice , but 4K +action then 4 dice at range 3 was really nice.)

1 hour ago, Ghostrider58 said:

Instead of screaming this is broken, my XXX list can't win against it, why not try a new list or combo???

Why are you flying triple x-wings? That’s your problem dood.

Guys, guys, guys......lets be real. The Gunboat might be OK, maybe even decent, but lets be honest. Imps aren't Scum- it won't be amazing. I'm sure it will have its uses, but it's not going to single-handedly change the fortune of the Imp faction. I expect a mediocre dial, and some more situational cards in the set. It will be OK.

But face the facts: All ships that dominate right now have the following: Great dials, great pilot abilities, and GREAT (meaning full) upgrade bars. Gunboat probably has a decent dial, meh pilot abilities (the revealed one doesn't wow me), and a SUPER restrictive upgrade bar. If it makes a big splash I'll be surprised. Sure you'll see it a lot because its the Gunboat, but there's no way it keeps up with the hyper efficiency of the Scurrg, K, or JM5K. Unless those ships are addressed in an FAQ, nothing will change about the state of the game.

Quote

Why the Gunboat might come up short...dang it (blog)

BLASPHAMY

GUNBOAT will come to the Rescue of the Empire just like it always has. Keep the faith, GUNBOAY is coming. And it will be GLORIOUS!

1 hour ago, ficklegreendice said:

not as a result of the nerfs, though

see: jumpmasters

I honestly do not believe un-errated x7s or palp would fare super well in this meta regardless

The old X7's would do just fine in Europe IMO. Faan made an excellent call by bringing his U-boats to UK Nationals, and he's only one of a bunch of incredible Dutch Jumpmaster players. I'm now expecting to see a ton of triple Jumps at Belgian and Netherlands Nationals. Pre nerf X7's had a good matchup vs triple jumps, can whittle away Dash and Dengar pretty quickly and would have been my go to list without the nerf.

In my theorycrafting, Vinder seems to be a good replacement for Backdraft in a triple Imps build alongside Quickdraw + OL/TLT/Deathfire etc. Will pack a stronger punch, possibly even pulling heat off QD and will take a few turns to kill if played right. Looking forward to advance slamming into ships to deny shots whilst still shooting with cannons - and you never know, that other title might be a real game changer.

Can someone tell me why Scum gets jam-packed upgrade bars and Imperials two or three if they're lucky?

And don't waste anyone's time saying "fluff"

People should waste less time with analyses and discussions and be more faithful. GUNBOAT is on the rise. Salvation is near. Stop thinking and sacrifice an Ewok! For her coming is near and she will bring Redemption for those who keep the faith and wait in humility for the GUNBOAT.

3 minutes ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:

Can someone tell me why Scum gets jam-packed upgrade bars and Imperials two or three if they're lucky?

And don't waste anyone's time saying "fluff"

FFG tried to catch them up to par with the other two factions and shot them a little too full of steroids. As a result, you have superships like the JMK, Caster and Scuurg that have a wealth of slots, great dials and good stats. Hopefully they're winding the doses down a little now.

1 minute ago, Bonza said:

FFG tried to catch them up to par with the other two factions and shot them a little too full of steroids. As a result, you have superships like the JMK, Caster and Scuurg that have a wealth of slots, great dials and good stats. Hopefully they're winding the doses down a little now.

Kimogila has 5 upgrade slots, a native 8 (i.e another VI strap-on. Thanks, AGAIN, FFG), a new action, and a new mechanic.

I don't think they're winding down ****

9 hours ago, Lobokai said:

My thoughts on the troubles the Gunboat might face

I'm hoping I'm wrong. And if somehow the gunboat is really good it better not get nerfed below the competitive line like some Imperial things have in the past... I'm all for balance, I'm tired of the over corrections to everything viable in the Imperial hanger.

I doubt the PS2 generic will be 22 points (can you imagine FFG releasing these a point more expensive than the Punisher? I'd guess 20, a point cheaper), but I think the conclusion is mostly right. I don't think it'll live long enough to really do the damage it needs to do. Until we know what some of the unrevealed cards do, I think this is mostly a shinier Punisher without bombs, unless someone has a way to leverage either Reload or Slam.

For Reload, perhaps Ion Pulse Missiles. If there's any munition which would allow you to leverage that Reload action, it'd be these. Maybe two Deadeye/IPM Rho, and something more nimble to take advantage of the Ion positioning.

For Slam, 4x Nu (presuming 20 points) with Flechette Cannons, Advanced Slam, and the cannon title. That'd be an interesting way to leverage the Slam action. It'll be interesting to see what being able to Slam and Shoot could do, if the dial is remotely reasonable.

~~

That said, it's possible the unrevealed cards have strong impacts, and will make the ship viable. It's also possible it'll need to be flown to be understood, and worked on in the context of the table. The K-Wing wasn't really top tier for a while. Part of that is Sabine, but I think the greater part of it is that it's just an unusual ship and it took a lot of figuring out.