A New Take on Miranda & Nym

By DavidTam, in X-Wing Squad Lists

Here's my take on Miranda & Nym. Input is always welcome.

David's Sling - 98 Points

Miranda Doni — K-Wing 29
Twin Laser Turret 6
Extra Munitions 2
Harpoon Missiles 4
Sabine Wren 2
Thermal Detonators 3
Cluster Mines 4
Long-Range Scanners 0
Ship Total: 50
Captain Nym (Rebel) — Scurrg H-6 Bomber 30
Intensity 2
Twin Laser Turret 6
Bomblet Generator 3
Advanced Sensors 3
"Genius" 0
Engine Upgrade 4
Havoc 0
Ship Total: 48

http://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Rebel Alliance&d=v4!s!139:135,126,-1,243,166,-1,181:-1:24:U.127;254:232,135,-1,-1,-1,237,-1:53:3:U.43,u.117&sn=David's Sling&obs=

My thoughts:

Initiative Bid

I played a dozen games using Captain Nym with VI at PS10 but I find that in the current Meta, I am either playing against PS10 & PS11 ships or PS8 or lower. Of course, I can't help but to move after PS11 and if I want to move after PS10 build, I had to bid down to 97 points. Most builds with PS8 are not after looking for initiative so they are usually at 99 or 100 points, that's why I settled at 98.

EPT slot

Taking VI out, I have a couple of points to spare. I looked at Expert Handling, Lone Wolf, and even Push the Limit. My first version was with Push the Limit but I did find getting rid of the stress to be a problem. I settled on Intensity because it gives Nym better survivability. Each evade token is like an extra shield for Nym and I usually save the focus token to flip intensity back over.

Advanced SLAM & Harpoon Missiles

With the leaked FAQ and the pending nerf on Advanced SLAM, I want to be able to play this list for months to come. So I replaced it with Long-Range Scanners and the new Harpoon Missiles. Since I will be staying in range 3 or beyond, Long-Range Scanners made a lot of sense to me for action economy. I was debating between Concussion Missiles or Harpoon Missiles as they both allow me to keep my Target Lock to re-roll up to 5 dices (when I use Miranda's ability). At the end, I went with Harpoon Missiles because it is still has the "unknown" fear factor on my enemy and taking away one of their future action is good economy.

The rest

Twin Laser Turret is good for consistent damage output while I keep my enemy at range 3. It also allow Miranda to regenerate one of her shield. Extra Munition is a great value consisting all the upgrades I have on the K-Wing. Sabine Wren is a staple on any bombing list. I went with Thermal Detonators and Cluster Mines because I want to have both "action bombs" as well as "maneuver bombs". Bomblet Generator is great for range control when paired with Nym's ability. The genius of Nym is the upgrade cards: "Genius", "Advanced Sensor", and "Engine Upgrade". In combination with "Barrel Roll", they effectively allow me to re-position Nym into bombing range, out of shooting arc, or range 3. Did I mention I get an evade token for that?

So that's my list. I call it David's Sling because the little bombs slay giants!

I have a couple comments/questions:

  • You mentioned Concussion missile doesn't spend the target lock, but it does. Did you mean Cruise missiles? Either way, I'd agree Harpoon is the way to go.
  • If you're going with PS8 Nym, is it really worth it to have AS and EU on him anymore?
  • Having played a lot of Intensity on ships which are more likely to have tokens during the end phase (Poe & Jake), you'll find Nym unable to refresh Intensity a lot. Also, I don't see a scenario where you'll end up with both an evade and a focus. Any boost or barrel roll will be your one action, which will net you an evade or focus, but that's it...one reposition and one token.
  • Since you're already bidding down to 98 at PS8 Nym, and you've acknowledged that you have to get down to 97 to beat out other PS10s, why not just take VI and get down to 97?

[edit] - BTW, I get where you're going. You want to do something which isn't a cookie-cutter Nym and pretty much all of my comments steer you right back to a cookie-cutter Nym. I do think there's a place for PS8 Nym, I just don't know if this is it, definitely not with Intensity.

Edited by gennataos
1 hour ago, gennataos said:

I do think there's a place for PS8 Nym,

I think a PS8 Nym is probably playing Minefield Mapper and a bunch of Cluster Mines with R4-E1, TLT, Lone Wolf, and maybe a Hull Upgrade or Chips and some Missiles. Give Miranda the Bomblet with Sabine and use the Cluster Mines to block off your opponents initial formation and force them into an area you can keep control of. Nym can still keep Miranda's bomblets from detonation right? So it might work out rather nicely as a complete field control nightmare.

Having played Deathrain with Advanced Sensors, I think it's worth it even on a PS8 Nym. I'm not giving up VI for Intensity, though. @gennataos is right that it just won't get enough flips.

It's important to understand that Intensity isn't quite action economy. It's an action time machine. You don't get any more actions or tokens: you get a token now, but pay for it later. If you intend to spend your tokens, that hurts your action economy on later turns. It's almost like the difference between Rey and Recon Specialist. Recon Specialist actually gives you more tokens. Rey doesn't give you more, it just lets you save them from turns you don't need them. On someone like Poe (who doesn't spend his token) or Sabine/Jake (who get free Boosts and Barrel Rolls), Intensity becomes a lot more like traditional action efficiency. On pilots without abilities like that, Intensity's cost is harsh. I think for most pilots, it's best to think of Intensity not as a reliable source of tokens, but as an infrequent source of barrel rolls and boosts.

The Miranda seems like a fine build.

As to a Minefield Mapper Nym, here's where I start my build: Nym with TLT, MM, EM, Cluster Mines, Proton Bomb, Havoc (47 pts, with free slots in Elite, Missile, Astromech, or Mod). For Miranda, TLT, EM, Sabine, Bomblet, Cluster Mines (46 pts, with free slots in Missile, Torpedo, and Mod). I've played against a Nym mapping a Proton Bomb smack in the middle of the asteroid field and preventing it from detonating--it really threw me off. Combining that with a set of Cluster Mines in front of the enemy squad, and that's a lot of herding. Anyhow, maybe this is the place for R5-P9 Painbot on Nym.

10 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

It's important to understand that Intensity isn't quite action economy. It's an action time machine. You don't get any more actions or tokens: you get a token now, but pay for it later. If you intend to spend your tokens, that hurts your action economy on later turns. It's almost like the difference between Rey and Recon Specialist. Recon Specialist actually gives you more tokens. Rey doesn't give you more, it just lets you save them from turns you don't need them. On someone like Poe (who doesn't spend his token) or Sabine/Jake (who get free Boosts and Barrel Rolls), Intensity becomes a lot more like traditional action efficiency. On pilots without abilities like that, Intensity's cost is harsh. I think for most pilots, it's best to think of Intensity not as a reliable source of tokens, but as an infrequent source of barrel rolls and boosts.

I know this deviates from the original topic, but this is a really interesting point and, depending on the pilot, can be inferred in different ways. Take Jake. If he's paired with Airen or (even better) Ahsoka, he can take an evade or TL action after his maneuver, no Intensity flip. Then, getting a free action while knowing the entire field, he can take a focus, BR/Boost off that, take another focus with Intensity, then the other reposition action he didn't previously take.

Oh god. Intensity/Jake and Ahsoka with Rey. Toss in intensity Poe, while we're at it.

3 hours ago, gennataos said:

I have a couple comments/questions:

  • You mentioned Concussion missile doesn't spend the target lock, but it does. Did you mean Cruise missiles? Either way, I'd agree Harpoon is the way to go.
  • If you're going with PS8 Nym, is it really worth it to have AS and EU on him anymore?
  • Having played a lot of Intensity on ships which are more likely to have tokens during the end phase (Poe & Jake), you'll find Nym unable to refresh Intensity a lot. Also, I don't see a scenario where you'll end up with both an evade and a focus. Any boost or barrel roll will be your one action, which will net you an evade or focus, but that's it...one reposition and one token.
  • Since you're already bidding down to 98 at PS8 Nym, and you've acknowledged that you have to get down to 97 to beat out other PS10s, why not just take VI and get down to 97?

[edit] - BTW, I get where you're going. You want to do something which isn't a cookie-cutter Nym and pretty much all of my comments steer you right back to a cookie-cutter Nym. I do think there's a place for PS8 Nym, I just don't know if this is it, definitely not with Intensity.

Thanks for your input. I just find that players are expecting a PS10 Nym and they will go PS11 that the EPT slot is wasted. My overall strategy is to stay in range 3 or beyond and take focus even when I'm out of range to flip Intensity back. When I go for the bombing runs, I'll leave all the evade that I can get.

1 hour ago, wkf04a said:

I think a PS8 Nym is probably playing Minefield Mapper and a bunch of Cluster Mines with R4-E1, TLT, Lone Wolf, and maybe a Hull Upgrade or Chips and some Missiles. Give Miranda the Bomblet with Sabine and use the Cluster Mines to block off your opponents initial formation and force them into an area you can keep control of. Nym can still keep Miranda's bomblets from detonation right? So it might work out rather nicely as a complete field control nightmare.

I thought about switching the bomb load out as you suggested at one point. And yes, Nym can hold Miranda's bomb. I decided not to because Miranda will be better with the missiles and Nym has better positioning for reveal bombs.

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

Having played Deathrain with Advanced Sensors, I think it's worth it even on a PS8 Nym. I'm not giving up VI for Intensity, though. @gennataos is right that it just won't get enough flips.

It's important to understand that Intensity isn't quite action economy. It's an action time machine. You don't get any more actions or tokens: you get a token now, but pay for it later. If you intend to spend your tokens, that hurts your action economy on later turns. It's almost like the difference between Rey and Recon Specialist. Recon Specialist actually gives you more tokens. Rey doesn't give you more, it just lets you save them from turns you don't need them. On someone like Poe (who doesn't spend his token) or Sabine/Jake (who get free Boosts and Barrel Rolls), Intensity becomes a lot more like traditional action efficiency. On pilots without abilities like that, Intensity's cost is harsh. I think for most pilots, it's best to think of Intensity not as a reliable source of tokens, but as an infrequent source of barrel rolls and boosts.

The Miranda seems like a fine build.

As to a Minefield Mapper Nym, here's where I start my build: Nym with TLT, MM, EM, Cluster Mines, Proton Bomb, Havoc (47 pts, with free slots in Elite, Missile, Astromech, or Mod). For Miranda, TLT, EM, Sabine, Bomblet, Cluster Mines (46 pts, with free slots in Missile, Torpedo, and Mod). I've played against a Nym mapping a Proton Bomb smack in the middle of the asteroid field and preventing it from detonating--it really threw me off. Combining that with a set of Cluster Mines in front of the enemy squad, and that's a lot of herding. Anyhow, maybe this is the place for R5-P9 Painbot on Nym.

Great points! I'm looking at moving Nym beyond range 3 at times to reset Intensity with a focus token and when I move Nym in for a bombing run, I would like to have an evade token for all the attentions he will get.

2 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Oh god. Intensity/Jake and Ahsoka with Rey. Toss in intensity Poe, while we're at it.

Oh, you mean like this? Yep, not super competitive, but good luck locking them down. Ridiculously fun to fly.

Jake Farrell (24)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Proton Rockets (3)
Intensity (2)
Autothrusters (2)
A-Wing Test Pilot (0)

Poe Dameron (PS9) (33)
Intensity (2)
BB-8 (2)
Primed Thrusters (1)
Autothrusters (2)
Black One (1)

Ahsoka Tano (17)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Rey (2)
EMP Device (2)
Captured TIE (1)
Sabine's Masterpiece (1)

Total: 97

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Or the one which looks like it shouldn't be competitive, but is (because Miranda). Bombardier on Miranda, that's dumb!...or is it?

Jake Farrell (24)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Proton Rockets (3)
Intensity (2)
Autothrusters (2)
A-Wing Test Pilot (0)

Miranda Doni (29)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Bombardier (1)
Bomblet Generator (3)
Long-Range Scanners (0)

Ahsoka Tano (17)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Sabine Wren (2)
Scavenger Crane (2)
Seismic Charges (2)
Captured TIE (1)
Sabine's Masterpiece (1)

Total: 97

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

1 hour ago, DavidTam said:

Great points! I'm looking at moving Nym beyond range 3 at times to reset Intensity with a focus token and when I move Nym in for a bombing run, I would like to have an evade token for all the attentions he will get.

But when will you know you're getting Nym at range 3 if there are ships moving after him? And if you do have him beyond range 3, then that means Miranda is on her own. I certainly encourage you to fly it and see how it does, but I do think Intensity will be exhausted for you a LOT.

Edited by gennataos
2 hours ago, gennataos said:

Oh, you mean like this? Yep, not super competitive, but good luck locking them down. Ridiculously fun to fly.

Or the one which looks like it shouldn't be competitive, but is (because Miranda). Bombardier on Miranda, that's dumb!...or is it?

Pretty much, with Poe, kitted out however makes sense. The Miranda list looks fun (Bombardier makes sense with Sabine on the TIE--a lot of why Nym is great is that he can stretch bomb deployments). If only she could SLAM off Ahsoka's free action, it'd be really crazy.

3 hours ago, gennataos said:

Oh, you mean like this? Yep, not super competitive, but good luck locking them down. Ridiculously fun to fly.

Jake Farrell (24)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Proton Rockets (3)
Intensity (2)
Autothrusters (2)
A-Wing Test Pilot (0)

Poe Dameron (PS9) (33)
Intensity (2)
BB-8 (2)
Primed Thrusters (1)
Autothrusters (2)
Black One (1)

Ahsoka Tano (17)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Rey (2)
EMP Device (2)
Captured TIE (1)
Sabine's Masterpiece (1)

Total: 97

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Or the one which looks like it shouldn't be competitive, but is (because Miranda). Bombardier on Miranda, that's dumb!...or is it?

Jake Farrell (24)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Proton Rockets (3)
Intensity (2)
Autothrusters (2)
A-Wing Test Pilot (0)

Miranda Doni (29)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Bombardier (1)
Bomblet Generator (3)
Long-Range Scanners (0)

Ahsoka Tano (17)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Sabine Wren (2)
Scavenger Crane (2)
Seismic Charges (2)
Captured TIE (1)
Sabine's Masterpiece (1)

Total: 97

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

But when will you know you're getting Nym at range 3 if there are ships moving after him? And if you do have him beyond range 3, then that means Miranda is on her own. I certainly encourage you to fly it and see how it does, but I do think Intensity will be exhausted for you a LOT.

This is what I'm trying to argue; that many list are either running at PS11 or PS8 or less. I'm trying to save the EPT slot for something that I will actually get to use.

3 hours ago, DavidTam said:

This is what I'm trying to argue; that many list are either running at PS11 or PS8 or less. I'm trying to save the EPT slot for something that I will actually get to use.

Lone Wolf? There's no really good reason for Miranda and Nym to be on top of each other and I'd almost guarantee you'd get more results from that than the occasional evade or focus from Intensity.