I am adding an NPC Space Marine to a game as one of the individuals the Inquisitor has used before and trusts to keep an eye out for certain things.

The NPC belongs to a Chapter called the Viridian Reivers, which hails from a Death World, so tends to use vehicles and anti-plant significantly.

What I cannot decide is which Legion they should descend from. Excluding Traitors (though a friend who works for GW did suggest Alpha Legion...) the options are:

Ultramarines - the Reivers did not strike me as sufficiently hidebound/restricted to work as Ultramarine successors

Imperial Fists - again, doesn't feel right

Space Wolves - not the "ill-fated" Wolfbrothers so not an option

Dark Angels - the unforgiven are not appropriate

Blood Angels - not vampires

Which leaves (IIRC):

Raven Guard

Iron Hands

Salamanders

White Scars

What would people suggest? I can use this to add more flavour and flesh out the NPC somewhat.

V.

I'd go Salamanders. White Scars are tribal but very definitely "mongol raiderish" which is in itself a very distinct flavor and not probably compatible with your ideas.

i think it depends on where you want your chapter to be like.

If you are in heavily forested Deathworld with a nomadic tribal society then it sounds like the White Scars (the white scars themselves are Mongolesque but there successor chaptors are unlikely to be, there are a butt load of them as well including various Marauders and Rampagers which fits the name quite well).

The Salamanders are from a death world but one that is more volcanic than forested. Not particularly tribal or known for vehicles, they are big on close range firepower (flamers good for clearing evil plants on Catachan). You could link it if there was large dragon like creatures on the planet that they hunted as a rite of passage seeing as it's a deathworld

The Space Wolves are another tribal chapter. There successors don't have to be space vikings but they are probaly similar. Not particularly known for vehicles either.

Raven guard use fast vehicles for hit a run tactics, which sounds good for a forest death world but i don't know about their background really.

There are no known Salamander successors as far as I am aware. And there has only ever been one Space Wolf successor - The Wolf Brothers - and they did not last long before the flaw in the Space Wolf geneseed destroyed the Chapter.

White Scars are your best bet IMO, followed by the Raven Guard.

BYE

Plus don´t forget that being descendant of some chapter doesn´t automaticaly mean being very similar. Ok, there are exceptions as Unforgiven, BA successors or some strongly Codex-bound Ultramarines descendants, but just take a guess: who is "parent" chapter of feral and macabre Mortificators? Mechanicus-allinged and technological Preators of Orpheus? Golden-armoured strict codex Astartes Preatus chapter of Angels of Vigilance? Pr who was primogenitor of violent, scavenging, intolerant and backward thinking Marines Malevolent?

Actually, I am going to toss a vote in for Iron Hands.

Pretty much everyone knows about their predilection for cybernetics, as every marine of this chapter has his left hand surgically removed and replaced with a bionic model upon his elevation to Battle Brother status. Veterans tend to be HIGHLY augmetic. Far more importantly to your idea though, the Iron Hands make extensive use of vehicles and dreadnoughts. In fact the Chapter headquarters on their blasted wasteland of a homeworld (Medusa) is actually a massive mobile fortress that slowly tractors across the terrain. As you would expect, they have a very close relationship with the Adeptus Mechanicus and are strong proponents of the "flesh is weak, it will fail you" school of thought. Each "clan company" is headquartered on a "Land-Behemoth" and is lead by an "Iron-Father"... Basically a Captain-TechMarine hybrid. Their early origins are from nomadic clans, but they have long ago replaced their traditional mounts with Predators, Rhinos, Razorbacks, Land Raiders and mobile fortresses.

A successor chapter would obviously have it's own quirks and traditions, but I can't immagine some of this not showing through.

If you are thinking more along the lines of swift attack-bike and landspeeder strikes then give the White Scars another look.

Ravenguard are all about jump-assaults, deep strikes and prolific use of lightning claws.

Salamanders are noted as being slower than other marines, but DURABLE. When they had their own separate army list they had a reduced initiative stat compared to "generic" marines. They are not particularly noted for armoured assaults (they do not avoid them either) but do show a marked preference for close quarters battle: The Salamanders take their "fire drake" iconography very much to heart and make extensive use of flamer and melta weapons of all types. They even had a special squad type that included a sergeant, 5 marines with boltguns and 4 marines armed with a mix of flamers and meltaguns! The chapter is noted for having dark skin and frequently bald.

My personal favourite Legions of the first founding are the Dark Angels followed by the Imperial Fists, but as you have already noted they don't really fit your theme all that well. I rather liked the Space Wolves back in the old Rogue Trader era, but their geneseed has degenerated BADLY over the years. HATE what they have become since 40K 2nd ed.

As for the Alpha Legion suggestion: ABSOLUTELY NOT! No Inquisitor, no Highlord of Terra, no Warmaster, no Chapter Master, NOTHING could save such tainted marines from exterminatus. NOTHING!

H.B.M.C. said:

Actually as long as we have 1000 chapters and the legacy of only handfull is written anywhere in canon you can make stuff up. If you look at the table in http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Space_Marine_Legion you can see that the ancestry of only 38 chapters are the in addition to the original 20 legions. Now it also says that 60% of all space marines come from Ultramarines but that would still leave a whopping total of 342 chapters divided amongst everyone else.

Yes, I'm always a bit dubious that no know successors means no successors when so many chapters amazingly can't trace their lineage. In the Salamanders case I'm running on the assumption that the Black Dragons are successors (even if they aren't first generation) untill such a time the the Ad Mech Genetors officially rule it out.

As you say Zilla White Scars are associated with bikes mostly but being a Codex chapter (apparently) they use a lot of transport vehicles to shift the rest of their forces.

And the Imperial Fists are supposed to be very vehicle heavy but do it from a seige mentality which I'm not sure was what you were looking for.

I could be wrong but I didn't think any of the traitor chapters had loyalist Successors as the Legions weren't split untill after the Heresy

Face Eater said:

You are completely right to say this! The loyalist legions were exclusively used after the Horus Heresy, and the traitor legionaries retreated to the Eye of Terror to lick their wounds. The chaos marines have fashioned their own 'successor' groups, but this is more down to Legions splintering and breaking up over the millennia, and new blood coming from renegades joining the legions.

Roboute Guilliman, being the tactical genius he was, and the Ultramarines being largely untouched after the Heresy do indeed have the lion's share of the crafting of the new chapters, mainly because of the Primarch's energy in the years immediately following the Heresy, and his reorganisation of the Imperium and the Space Marines through the Codex Astartes. However, that said, with 1000 chapters, there is ample opportunity for your own, completely 'new' chapter to conform to the planetary traits and unique 'character' you have devised. In that respect, if you were wanting to base them on a First Founding Legion, I would reckon on the Raven Guard being a good bet. Like many of the other original legions, they have their own ethos and specialisms. What I quite like about them, and here is perhaps the connection with what you are after, is their ability as stealth specialists. The Raven Guard are all about speedy strikes and hand to hand combat, but it would be easy to see a Second Founding (or later) successor chapter taking up the mantle of camouflage, stealth raids and skirmish tactics, given the natural terrain of their Home planet.

Of course, don't feel limited by canon on this. In truth, any of the original legions could potentially work; a successor chapter may well have diverged masively from its original roots, and so should stand as no limitation to your own inventiveness.

Redmike makes some excelent points.

It might be worth your while to spend a bit of time searching through old codexes, books, short stories and other "game fluff" out there and see if you find any inspiration. Back in the WH40K 2nd ed. days I came across some articles that added specialized recon and engineering squads to some of the existing armies. 2nd Ed army structures were a bit more flexible as to what you could include since your limitations were mostly in the form of "no more than X% of your points can be spent on this category". The various engineer squads were interesting, but the recon marines really grabbed my attention. Sure, they were expensive (points-wise) but they were stealthy and cool, having chameleoline and some specialist wargear (including a replace bolters with sniper rifles upgrade option). I ended up building a Dark Angels successor chapter called the Night Stalkers that strongly emphasized the "elite rapid strike commando" theme that all Marines follow to some extent. The basic idea was that scouts and recon squads would rapidly deploy and do their mischief, then once the enemy headquarters or other prime targets were located Thunderhawks would rain Tactical, Assault and Devastator squads down from the skies and Terminator squads would teleport into command bunkers. At least one scout squad was always attatched to a strikeforce (usually more) and Tactical squads usually abandoned their heavy weapon in favour of a second assault weapon to keep them swift and mobile. Since the infantry elements were a little lacking in heavy weapons (but were well armed with Krak grenades and meltabombs!) packs of Predator tanks stood ready to blitz enemy weak points or re-enforce threatened portions of their own battle lines. As an outgrowth of their deceptive warfare techniques the Chapter maintains more than 10 companies but generally avoids showing evidence of this fact: Two Termination companies "Deathwing" (a nod to their Dark Angels heritage), Two Strike companies (landspeeders and bikes), Six Battle companies (tactical, devastator, assault), Four Recon companies (recon and scouts) plus a large support pool of Predator tanks and Dreadnoughts. Rhino and Razorback APCs are routinely used by the Battle companies to enhance mobility. As a psychological warfare aspect, the Night Stalkers sometimes will deploy with different elements of their strike force bearing variant livery and paint schemes in order to fool their foes into thinking they face multiple chapters of Astartes. Although fanatically loyal to the Emperor (they are an "Unforgiven" chapter, after all!) many chapter traditions maintain reference to "Night Stalkers L.A.", a fact that makes some Inquisitors a bit nervous. (L.A. "Legio Astartes", the pre-heresy designation). Like all Dark Angels successor chapters, they are disturbingly secretive. Chapter badge is an upthrust sword over raised wings with a scroll beneath bearing the legend "Who Dares Wins". On campaign this is often replaced with a simple black or grey subdued rendering of the design so as to not compromise camouflage. Powerswords are surprisingly common. The chapter is based off a large warfleet consisting of several Battle Barges, many Strike Cruisers and a literal pack of escort and support ships. Planetary feifdom is used mostly for recruiting, training and supply production. New marine candidates that fail due to genetic incompatibility are trained as "Squires" (similar to IG Stormtroopers) and augment planetary garisons as well as starship security teams. Candidates that fail for "moral shortcomings" are never seen again....

Armour in common use: Astartes Mark IV, Mark VII, Mark VIII, Terminator Tactical Assault Dreadnought, Astartes Scout. Paradeground paint scheme is black with white details, honours in blue, red and gold as appropriate to award. Veterans bear a white horizontal stripe along the bottom of their pauldrons when in black armour or a black stripe if bearing any other primary colour. Camouflage patterns are commonplace. Terminators bear the traditional black for parade colours but are usually painted in streaked and dingy shades of grey for war. Helmet lenses are traditionally red. Mark V "heresy" armour is never used, as the chapter considers it to be impure. Mark VI is rare, but not unseen.

I would love to hear your new chapter's "fluff" once you find your muse.

ZillaPrime said:

This is great stuff too! My brother is a big fan of the Dark Angels, and has started to collect a 40K battle force recently, so I have had the opportunity of reading the DA Codex (which is due a revamp soon) and the Space Marine Codex, which actually gives you enough on the main chapters to a chapter to use in Dark Heresy. Other decent enough sources of information on many of these progenitor chapters comes from Black Libraries' Horus Heresy series, which vary in quality, but do provide some nice background fluff, and the (quite expensive) Horus Heresy Collected Visions book, which has enough background detail as well as fantastic shots of pre-heresy legions from the original collectible card game. These sources, and a handy poster of 99 of the chapters (1 is erased!) from Neil Hodgson's 2005 GW product, has provided a little bit more detail.

It is true that as ZillaPrime says above, making your own chapter along with an illustrious (or otherwise) path is really good fun, and can diverge from the original chapter as needs be. I have always wondered what happened with replacing the skills sets of the Traitor Legions e.g. the subterfuge and diplomatic chicanery of the original Alpha Legion, the tactical finesse and style of the Emperor's Children, the brutal fist of the World Eaters, the terror tactics of the Night Lords or the stoic determination of the Dusk Raiders (Death Guard). Would successor chapters have tried to re-emulate these skills and specialisms in new loyalist chapters, or would these traits be 'expunged' as stemming from heretical roots?

Perhaps these are questions for a different thread?

Just a question but why would a space marine chapter's wargear be dicated by the planet they come from? Marines rarely fight in environments identical to their home planets'. It strikes me as a little strange that their doctrine would specifically include anti plant over other things because there are bad plants on their home world.

Hellebore

Face Eater said:

This is definitely the popular and accepted view within the Imperium, but there are some examples of a contradictory nature.

• The Blood Ravens bear striking similarities to the pre-heresy Thousand Sons ; battle colors, high-propensity for psykers, and a thirst for knowledge both fair and foul. And remember still that the Thousand Sons were not traitors until after Horus unleashed Russ and his get on them for breaking the Emperor's decree banning sorcery; so done in the hopes of killing two legions whose loyalty Horus couldn't gain.
• Flight of the Eisenstein follows the Eisenstein, a frigate of the Death Guard Legion commanded by Battle-Captain Nathaniel Garro (of the 7th Company), one of the few commanders in the Traitor Legions that remained loyal to the Emperor. The story details the Eisenstein's escape from Isstvan III (the site of a genocidal attack instigated by Warmaster Horus) and its voyage across the galaxy to reach the Emperor of Mankind on Holy Terra.

Not every marine of the "Traitor" legions sided with Horus, some few stayed loyal to the Emperor; most still died in the ensuing war. But given the decimation the Imperium faced, it would have been foolish to cast aside such stalwart and loyal warriors. After all, uncorrupted geneseed is not to be frivolously cast aside. It has been speculated that it is this very stock from which the Grey Knights and several other chapters came from.

Conversely, not every marine within the so-called "Loyalist" legions held fast to their oaths of fealty. Do you know why el'Jonson was so late in arriving in support of the Emperor? "He wanted to see who was winning before he chose a side." - Words of one of those 'Fallen' the Dark Angels are always on about hunting down and killing. Funny how they seem to know they're not all dead yet after ten-thousand years, isn't it?

But that's just my take on it all.

-=Brother Praetus=-

Thanks for the suggestions and comments. I haven't yet decided the background, but will try to write up some more details when I have decided.

The Blood Ravens were the basis for the argument my friend used to justify Alpha Legion.

FWIW, I have for some time intended to present my players with a squad of Marines from a Chapter they don't recognise in red, the emblem a golden sunburst with an M in the middle - loyalist Thousand Sons who have just emerged from the warp. I think I know what the correct course of action is, but it will be interestinfg to see what they are doing.

Thanks for the help,

V.