The archers expansion will be out in two weeks. The crossbowmen don't look to be too far behind. Do you think it's worth getting a couple deepwood archers for the Daqan lists? What sort of things do they offer over crossbows? I'm not convinced it's 100% worth looking into if I don't plan on building an elven army at all.

However, I can see a couple things that make them worthwhile:

1) Putting a dispatch runner on the unit at 2x2

2) Running Kari and Hawthorne and doing a 4x1 (4 threat) unit

3) They are shifty and harder to catch then crossbows

Anything else?

Yes. Tempered Steel with a 4x1 can do 8-12 damage consistently.

Built-in reroll, the crossbowmen have to dump their Training or take a 3x2 since they have no 2x2 formation (for .. some reason..). And even then, unless they dump the training AND take a 3x2 they only have 1 reroll while a 2x2 of archers have 2 rerolls.

I am going to toy around with the 4x1 idea but i think the Kari tax to bring them at all kinda counteracts the benefits. A 3x2 of crossbowmen decked out in cards costs roughly the same as a 2x2 of archers + kari.

Crossbowmen are slightly better in melee (which is a moot point since theyre still bad at it) and are slightly more durable with Protected, but are also slightly less nimble and want to be R1-3.

Now if you are using Kari to begin with its probably worth it. Theres no neutral heraldry that actually helps them but theres several neutral champions that do. Personally i dont like kari as a single-tray hero, so it feels a little expensive to me to bring a 2x2 of archers.

I have a feeling the legit reason why our crossbowmen go 2x1, 3x1, 3x2 instead of having a 2x2 in there somewhere is to get people to bring elves. Which is kinda silly since they have to use neutral cards.

15 minutes ago, TallGiraffe said:

Yes. Tempered Steel with a 4x1 can do 8-12 damage consistently.

I enjoy how you use a 50% variance and 'consistently' at the same time.

27 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

Built-in reroll, the crossbowmen have to dump their Training or take a 3x2 since they have no 2x2 formation (for .. some reason..). And even then, unless they dump the training AND take a 3x2 they only have 1 reroll while a 2x2 of archers have 2 rerolls.

I am going to toy around with the 4x1 idea but i think the Kari tax to bring them at all kinda counteracts the benefits. A 3x2 of crossbowmen decked out in cards costs roughly the same as a 2x2 of archers + kari.

Crossbowmen are slightly better in melee (which is a moot point since theyre still bad at it) and are slightly more durable with Protected, but are also slightly less nimble and want to be R1-3.

Now if you are using Kari to begin with its probably worth it. Theres no neutral heraldry that actually helps them but theres several neutral champions that do. Personally i dont like kari as a single-tray hero, so it feels a little expensive to me to bring a 2x2 of archers.

I have a feeling the legit reason why our crossbowmen go 2x1, 3x1, 3x2 instead of having a 2x2 in there somewhere is to get people to bring elves. Which is kinda silly since they have to use neutral cards.

I really like the 3x1 crossbows with rank discipline and tempered steel as just solid damage output. Never used the mortal strike trigger, but pumping out 6-9 damage every attack feels real good. I've never taken Hawthorne and Kari together in a list, and I don't think 4x1 archers is reason enough to do so, but if you happen to be taking both for some reason AND have room then it is a pretty fearsome unit.

17 minutes ago, Darthain said:

I enjoy how you use a 50% variance and 'consistently' at the same time.

Two rerollable blue dice should get at least one hit 93% of the time, 2 hits 56%. So there's very little chance of getting no hits, and then it's close to a coin flip between one and two. Add Tempered Steel, and you can very reasonably expect either 8 or 12 damage.

31 minutes ago, Darthain said:

I enjoy how you use a 50% variance and 'consistently' at the same time.

Dial in a surge then its

4: 25%

8: 50%

12: 25%

So 75% chance of 8-12

(Edit: without rerolls -- so see the post above )

with full rerolls
4: 6.25%
8: 36.50%
12: 56.25%

TLDR:

1.5 hits with BB and precise 1 + 1 for Tempered Steel = 2.5 hits average (2 or 3 hits)

2.5 hits * 4 threat = 10 damage average (8 or 12 damage)

So what do you guys think of this list? Two 4x1 cavs w/ master crafted and a 4x1 archer with Dispatch Runner. So when available, they can let the cavalry attack a second time.

List Name: Four By Ones!

Master crafted weapons aren't good on oathsworn. Use tempered steel instead.

I've considered this force after the Crossbowmen come out.

Kari Wraithstalker x1 [32]
--Artifact: Heartseeker [10]
--Unique: Latari Training [6]
----------Total Unit Cost: 48

Deepwood Archers x6 [42]
--Equipment: Fire Rune [7]
----------Total Unit Cost: 49

Spearmen x4 [30]
--Champion: Greyhaven Channeler [6]
--Equipment: Fire Rune [7]
--Music: Rallying Cornicen [4]
----------Total Unit Cost: 47

Heavy Crossbowmen x6 [48]
--Equipment: Fire Rune [7]
----------Total Unit Cost: 55

29 minutes ago, TallGiraffe said:

Master crafted weapons aren't good on oathsworn. Use tempered steel instead.

Good thing you get one per archer expansion? (Possibly?)

1 hour ago, Glucose98 said:

So what do you guys think of this list? Two 4x1 cavs w/ master crafted and a 4x1 archer with Dispatch Runner. So when available, they can let the cavalry attack a second time.

List Name: Four By Ones!

Faction: Daqan
Points: 200/200

Kari Wraithstalker
# of Trays: 1 ( 32 points)
- Fortuna"s Dice ( 6 points)
= 38 total unit cost

Lord Hawthorne
# of Trays: 1 ( 34 points)
- Might of Daqan ( 4 points)
= 38 total unit cost

Deepwood Archers
# of Trays: 4 ( 30 points)
- Dispatch Runner ( 7 points)
- Tempered Steel ( 3 points)
= 40 total unit cost

Oathsworn Cavalry
# of Trays: 4 ( 34 points)
- Master-Crafted Weapons ( 4 points)
- Rank Discipline ( 4 points)
= 42 total unit cost

Oathsworn Cavalry
# of Trays: 4 ( 34 points)
- Master-Crafted Weapons ( 4 points)
- Rank Discipline ( 4 points)
= 42 total unit cost

The only time I fielded two 4x1's I regretted it. Such a wide unit, my opponent was able to keep one out of the game almost entirely.

39 minutes ago, Glucose98 said:

Good thing you get one per archer expansion? (Possibly?)

Tempered Steel is in the spearmen box along with raven tabard. Both good for oathsworn.

2 hours ago, Glucose98 said:

Dial in a surge then its

4: 25%

8: 50%

12: 25%

So 75% chance of 8-12

(Edit: without rerolls -- so see the post above )

with full rerolls
4: 6.25%
8: 36.50%
12: 56.25%

Of course, but this is a situation where english and gameplay don't exactly align well, which is why it amuses me.