Just now, Marinealver said:

If it is of any consolation in Armada he was so OP he had to be nerfed.

I know. Poor Rhymer just can't get a break.

13 hours ago, Favoritism Flight Games said:

I'll site you proof:

Upgrade Frequency since the release of Wave 11

You can see that VI is far and away the most used EPT with 1398 instances of it's use. The next closest are Push the Limit and Expertise with 760 and 742 uses respectively. It's basically twice as popular as the next used EPT. That's WAY WAY WAY WAY over-represented.

Yeah, the other guys already covered why this ins't proof of much at all. There's a popular build that uses that card, and it's a great 1 point filler if you can't afford the points for anything better.

No nerf necessary in my opinion.

If pilot skill were to cap at nine, there would be extreme bidding wars to control initiative... Which is great! That alone would be some help to generic pilots so they could hopefully fly 100 point lists against 90 point lists. Generics would still be the underdog but it would help.

15 hours ago, DR4CO said:

Because every few waves it's existence causes the whole meta-game to devolve into these ridiculous PS wars. It's never been quite this bad, because we weren't coupling it with such huge damage potential before, but it does keep on happening. You can't just take it out of the picture, of course, as some ships (ie. Phantoms) have been built around having access to it, but some sort of limitation to put an end to these meta-stifling "get to double digits or GTFO" situations is long overdue.

You obviously didn't survive through the pre-nerf Phantom ****.

In comparison this isn't even remotely close. Whisper that wasn't out PS skill literally just won. No chance for any other player unless you played Han.

Stop with the hyperbole

19 hours ago, Cerve said:

Sorry, I don't want to seems salty, but I think that's a problem for your opponents, not for Nym itself. Expecially with the Nym+2TLT list :-/

Or you're basically telling that any good ship in this game is OP? What was that OP+OP=more OP, talking about 2TLTs, Corran or Asajj?

Anyway, a good counter for Nym should be the Ghost. Or even the Triple Jumpmasters. Or even anything with an Ion control, but the first two seems more reliable. I think that the meta just need to rotate: some of the old lists just counter Nym as well, in my opinion.

Nym + 2 TLT is actually quite good because the range 1 "bubble" is completly protected. I have not brought the build to a big tournament but we have many good local players and so far i'm 5/1 win/lost.

It's hard to explain my point in english here. Ill use an example. Would Dengar + 2 TLT be OP? Probably not. Will it be a good build, yes. I think most players agree that Dengar is OP... People play Nym with Dengar because they are both OP ships and thus performs much better than good/average material.

In my area it's very rare that we have a consensus on whats OP or not. Last time (before Nym) was the deadeye scouts. Arc dodging + turret is a problem in itself. Add to that unlimited bombing enhanced by the pilot ability and the tools to be better at dropping them than a Slamming Kwing. Top it with good defense, good dial and 3 dice primary. What are the negatives for all that? none... Worst thing is you dont need to remove much to make him just a really good pilot... the EPT or the sensor upgrade.

Ghost and triple scouts were present at Gencon (especially triple scouts). Yet guess who won... :-) Almost 2/3 of the top 16 was composed of either Nym or Lowrisk...

1 hour ago, Thormind said:

Nym + 2 TLT is actually quite good because the range 1 "bubble" is completly protected. I have not brought the build to a big tournament but we have many good local players and so far i'm 5/1 win/lost.

It's hard to explain my point in english here. Ill use an example. Would Dengar + 2 TLT be OP? Probably not. Will it be a good build, yes. I think most players agree that Dengar is OP... People play Nym with Dengar because they are both OP ships and thus performs much better than good/average material.

In my area it's very rare that we have a consensus on whats OP or not. Last time (before Nym) was the deadeye scouts. Arc dodging + turret is a problem in itself. Add to that unlimited bombing enhanced by the pilot ability and the tools to be better at dropping them than a Slamming Kwing. Top it with good defense, good dial and 3 dice primary. What are the negatives for all that? none... Worst thing is you dont need to remove much to make him just a really good pilot... the EPT or the sensor upgrade.

Ghost and triple scouts were present at Gencon (especially triple scouts). Yet guess who won... :-) Almost 2/3 of the top 16 was composed of either Nym or Lowrisk...

The thing is that Nym is not OP alone, it becomes OP because he fit perfect with Dengar and Miranda. Yes he still good with other configurations, but what brings OP him are only Dengar and Miranda.

So actually, Nym is not OP itself. It's the combination that results too strong imho.

And I don't consider too much the quantity of a list: the worlds were always won by single, unique lists, since years.

31 minutes ago, Cerve said:

The thing is that Nym is not OP alone, it becomes OP because he fit perfect with Dengar and Miranda. Yes he still good with other configurations, but what brings OP him are only Dengar and Miranda.

So actually, Nym is not OP itself. It's the combination that results too strong imho.

And I don't consider too much the quantity of a list: the worlds were always won by single, unique lists, since years.

We could say just the same thing about Miranda and Dengar. It's kind of a failed logic. Miranda is not OP without Biggs or Nym, Dengar is not OP when played with XYZ...

I dont know where you took your information (or feeling?) that Nym was just OP because of Dengar or Miranda but it's not the case at all. Current meta top 10:

http://meta-wing.com/ship_combos?

4 Nym builds in the top 10. Nym + Dash is actually ranked higher than Nym+Miranda. In 10th position you have a Nym + Fenn + Sunny build. There is also a Nym+Rey in 14th position. Nym+Corran just won the last North American Champ. It's THE ship that finally allowed Nathan to win a major event with a Corran+X build.

Triple scouts are considered to be OP yet you have 3 Nym builds ranking before them... Stronger than OP means OP in my book :-)

I agree to the PS 9 cap if also:

"At the end of the cleanup phase, you may pass your initiative token to your rival"

1 minute ago, Jehan Menasis said:

I agree to the PS 9 cap if also:

"At the end of the cleanup phase, you may pass your initiative token to your rival"

Did you mean "may"?

I meant it.

Having the initiative with the current game rules is, more often than not, a malus, rather than a bonus.

If you OutPS your rival, initiative is meaningless. If you underPS your rival, initiative is meaningless.

The only instance initiative has a meaning in this game is on PS ties. And 99% of the time in a PS tie, the 'winner' will give the initiative to the 'loser'.

Having a PS cap WILL force more ties, and that will undoubtedly translate on bidding wars. But bidding would be also less important if you know that initiative will flow during the match. Plus, it will create more tactics, like willingly keeping the initiative in order to 'give it' to your rival just before a critical turn (or so you think), also knowing that once you do that, your rival can also do the same to you later.

3 minutes ago, Jehan Menasis said:

I meant it.

Having the initiative with the current game rules is, more often than not, a malus, rather than a bonus.

If you OutPS your rival, initiative is meaningless. If you underPS your rival, initiative is meaningless.

The only instance initiative has a meaning in this game is on PS ties. And 99% of the time in a PS tie, the 'winner' will give the initiative to the 'loser'.

Having a PS cap WILL force more ties, and that will undoubtedly translate on bidding wars. But bidding would be also less important if you know that initiative will flow during the match. Plus, it will create more tactics, like willingly keeping the initiative in order to 'give it' to your rival just before a critical turn (or so you think), also knowing that once you do that, your rival can also do the same to you later.

Fair enough.

I think that the biggest problem with PS right now isn't that everyone is trying to get a higher PS, but rather why a higher PS is so game defining. To me this comes back to the same problem the original phantom had - the ability to massively reposition your ship after knowing everyone else's moves. It's what made the phantom brutal, and it's also a major part of Nym's dominance.

Nerfing VI would only be a partial solution to this though. It would stop PS wars and start bidding wars. Nerfing advanced sensors solves the problem in a more direct way. Repositioning before your move after seeing all other moves is too powerful. It's a problem with Nym right now, and it's going to be a problem with Kylo in a few months.

2 hours ago, Thormind said:

We could say just the same thing about Miranda and Dengar. It's kind of a failed logic. Miranda is not OP without Biggs or Nym, Dengar is not OP when played with XYZ...

I dont know where you took your information (or feeling?) that Nym was just OP because of Dengar or Miranda but it's not the case at all. Current meta top 10:

http://meta-wing.com/ship_combos?

4 Nym builds in the top 10. Nym + Dash is actually ranked higher than Nym+Miranda. In 10th position you have a Nym + Fenn + Sunny build. There is also a Nym+Rey in 14th position. Nym+Corran just won the last North American Champ. It's THE ship that finally allowed Nathan to win a major event with a Corran+X build.

Triple scouts are considered to be OP yet you have 3 Nym builds ranking before them... Stronger than OP means OP in my book :-)

Because those couples are the best. And nope, Dengar and Miranda are just OP alone. But I can't say nothing new to convince you, and other players confirmed that.

Just different point of view I guess (:

39 minutes ago, JaxonEvans said:

I think that the biggest problem with PS right now isn't that everyone is trying to get a higher PS, but rather why a higher PS is so game defining. To me this comes back to the same problem the original phantom had - the ability to massively reposition your ship after knowing everyone else's moves. It's what made the phantom brutal, and it's also a major part of Nym's dominance.

Nerfing VI would only be a partial solution to this though. It would stop PS wars and start bidding wars. Nerfing advanced sensors solves the problem in a more direct way. Repositioning before your move after seeing all other moves is too powerful. It's a problem with Nym right now, and it's going to be a problem with Kylo in a few months.

With the pre-nerf Phantom PS mean so much to it for far more reasons than just repositioning after everyone else had moved. For one thing most ships will need to be paying actions for that repositioning while the Phantom was probably getting it because the ACD modification could keep it with a Cloak token. That same modification is also why Phantoms certainly played the PS bidding wars because firing first was so important as it allowed the ship to regain a cloak token via ACD and Whisper to probably pick up a Focus token as well. Everything about ACD supported having the highest PS around and in comparison most normal Activation based repositioning is tame by comparison.

This is where this forum goes EVERY TIME something new and popular comes out...

Lots of people play it, so it must be OP.

I have to change my tactics/list/playstyle, so it must be OP

I didn't win 5 games in a row against it, so it must be OP

6 hours ago, JaxonEvans said:

I think that the biggest problem with PS right now isn't that everyone is trying to get a higher PS, but rather why a higher PS is so game defining. To me this comes back to the same problem the original phantom had - the ability to massively reposition your ship after knowing everyone else's moves. It's what made the phantom brutal, and it's also a major part of Nym's dominance.

Nerfing VI would only be a partial solution to this though. It would stop PS wars and start bidding wars. Nerfing advanced sensors solves the problem in a more direct way. Repositioning before your move after seeing all other moves is too powerful. It's a problem with Nym right now, and it's going to be a problem with Kylo in a few months.

Your first point addresses the PS Wars, VI isnt bad, VI is bad when combined with a already high PS pilot. I dont think they need to nerf VI as such, just either limit PS to 9, or errata the card to add if your PS is 7 or lower, like a reverse Black One Title.