Several players in my local area have had trouble with this new style reinforce token with the Auzituck, doubly so since you can't rely on how it works in Epic (you have to unlearn stuff first - always a headache in the heat of the action of a game).
I made 2 infographics to help understand how it works. I hope it helps someone out there.
great example, thanks.
It's good to have the example, but this really is a case of 'read the card, Luke'.
4 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:It's good to have the example, but this really is a case of 'read the card, Luke '.
I don't disagree! It was still needed in my group. *shrugs*. Not everyone is a seasoned veteran of rules minutiae interpretation.
Edited by Mu0n729
56 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:It's good to have the example, but this really is a case of 'read the card, Luke'.
just from my experience - not everyone own Wookie Gunship, and not everyone so deep in game to know every every card especially not from their ships.
42 minutes ago, michigun1 said:just from my experience - not everyone own Wookie Gunship, and not everyone so deep in game to know every every card especially not from their ships.
If they don't own the gunship and have no idea how it works, then the onus is on the player flying the Gunship to provide a copy of the rules reference card. Those cards are not just there to go in the recycling!
If they do own the gunship, then it's their responsibility to know how the mechanic works when they fly it.
Huh... I always thought the attacker's closest to closest would matter. Good info thx. (not a newb - just never used this ship before)
Thanks for this post, it made me realize I that I had been doing it wrong!
Habit is hard to overcome if you ve played Epic a lot and know the reinforce action from there.
I had to explain this to someone just the other day that was convinced it was the epic way still, and he wasn't new to x-wing or anything. If I said his name, most would recognize it, but I don't want to embarrass him
.
One point that's slightly counterintuitive but should be brought up: Imagine the above image, but with N'dru rotated about 20-30 degrees anticlockwise, so that only the rear right hand corner of his base was in the Auzituck's arc, but he still had a shot on the gunship, with the line of his arc running parallel to the Auzituck's centre line.
Here's the counterintuitive part: The front reinforce token would still work against N'dru's attack, even though no part of N'dru's firing arc will intersect the front half of the gunship. It only takes account of the Wookiee's arc - if he can see you , he gets to use it.
It is written kinda dumb. Should just say in arc or out of arc. Not reinforce fore or aft, cuz that makes people think they can attack your rear even if they are in your arc (parrel line rule, for instance).
4 hours ago, wurms said:It is written kinda dumb. Should just say in arc or out of arc. Not reinforce fore or aft, cuz that makes people think they can attack your rear even if they are in your arc (parrel line rule, for instance).
The confusion comes from the original huge ship action token. Even the Gozanti states that the section is determined by the atacker being able to draw a line to a specific spot on the huge ship base.
So we got
2
3 different rules for the reinforce action.
Keep in mind that both Target lock and Coordinate only has 1 set of rules for all ships that have that action from huge to small.
On 9/21/2017 at 0:04 AM, MacchuWA said:One point that's slightly counterintuitive but should be brought up: Imagine the above image, but with N'dru rotated about 20-30 degrees anticlockwise, so that only the rear right hand corner of his base was in the Auzituck's arc, but he still had a shot on the gunship, with the line of his arc running parallel to the Auzituck's centre line.
Here's the counterintuitive part: The front reinforce token would still work against N'dru's attack, even though no part of N'dru's firing arc will intersect the front half of the gunship. It only takes account of the Wookiee's arc - if he can see you , he gets to use it.
This is absolutely absurd. I hate this rule.
After playing against the Auzituck 2 or 3 times, it took until my 4th competitive match for this to sink in.
It IS a little counter-intuitive since you can have arc on only the aft of the ship but still be reinforced by the front (which resulted in a few wasted barrel rolls on my part).
On the other end, though, it does solve the issue of a parallel ship just choosing its arc to be on the non-reinforced side (as is possible when opposing ship is on the side of the Auzituck). I imagine they wanted to increase the power level of the smallship Reinforce action (maybe to give Rebels some love!).
12 hours ago, phild0 said:On the other end, though, it does solve the issue of a parallel ship just choosing its arc to be on the non-reinforced side (as is possible when opposing ship is on the side of the Auzituck). I imagine they wanted to increase the power level of the smallship Reinforce action (maybe to give Rebels some love!).
I think they just wanted to leave it with no room for interpretation; regardless of your orientation and where your shots are coming in from, you categorically are, or are not, in the ship's arc of fire.
19 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:I think they just wanted to leave it with no room for interpretation; regardless of your orientation and where your shots are coming in from, you categorically are, or are not, in the ship's arc of fire.
Yup.
It's also just a more straightforward rule than the epic version, which requires various weird check of arcs relative to bases and establishment of lines of fire and etc etc. In/out of arc is easy to remember, easy to check, and easy to write. It also means that Reinforce on small bases can be used on small bases without a median line, and allows for interesting options for Reinforce on small bases with rear, mobile and even basic front arcs.
Reinforce tokens should definitely be treated like focus and evade tokens for certain abilities though. Maybe even all small ship pilot abilities. The worst one would be Palob stealing them, but Palob with a Reinforce token isn't THAT scary.
I am flabbergasted at what the misunderstanding is. If any part of you is in the arc designated by the chosen reinforce action.. then you get the auto evade... Surely it's not that hard????
12 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:It's also just a more straightforward rule than the epic version, which requires various weird check of arcs relative to bases and establishment of lines of fire and etc etc.
To be fair, as a mechanic it originally came into existence for the CR-90 corvette. The epic version of the reinforce rule makes more sense when considering a ship which is essentially two smaller ships with separate damage capacities standing next to each other.
12 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:Reinforce tokens should definitely be treated like focus and evade tokens for certain abilities though. Maybe even all small ship pilot abilities. The worst one would be Palob stealing them, but Palob with a Reinforce token isn't THAT scary.
I dunno. I'm fine with the previous stuff not affecting them, but I think future stuff should probably add 'or reinforce' into its scope in the same way cards now often say barrel roll or boost (or even barrel roll, boost or decloak). I'm surprised the token-stripping abilities of the Killergorilla didn't namecheck them.
A lot of it will depends on whether the 'gimmick' of reinforce ends up on any other ships. The odds are good that it will - the 'bug has co-opted the Co-ordinate mechanic, and the Jam mechanic* is attached to faction-independent secondary weapons, and Reload is on two seperate ships.
If it's just the wookies, I'm not getting bent out of shape about it (it still irks me those things are better than a U-wing in essentially every way , though).
* Okay, it's not the epic 'jam' mechanic, but nor is Reinforce exactly the same as the epic version.
Edited by Magnus Grendel29 minutes ago, Archangelspiv said:I am flabbergasted at what the misunderstanding is. If any part of you is in the arc designated by the chosen reinforce action.. then you get the auto evade... Surely it's not that hard????
Must be, because that's not how it works?
Are you in the Wookies primary or secondary arc (could the wookie shoot you, discounting range)?
Yes? Then Fore reinforce works.
No? Then Aft reinforce works.
There isn't an 'Aft arc' or a 'Forward arc' involved, and describing it that way leads to confusion (I initially thought the same way, but re-reading the card lead to a lightbulb moment on my part).
Functionally it means that the Fore area is larger.
Also, worth noting that adding the evade is not a may. If you are reinforced you must add the evade.
48 minutes ago, DamianR said:Must be, because that's not how it works?
Are you in the Wookies primary or secondary arc (could the wookie shoot you, discounting range)?
Yes? Then Fore reinforce works.
No? Then Aft reinforce works.
There isn't an 'Aft arc' or a 'Forward arc' involved, and describing it that way leads to confusion (I initially thought the same way, but re-reading the card lead to a lightbulb moment on my part).
Functionally it means that the Fore area is larger.
I guess those people never played against a Firespray then.