3 minutes ago, defkhan1 said:

It's actually 21 because I forgot to include Stygium! The ones you missed were Gyroscopic Targeting and Maneuvering Fins. Also, Targeting Computer totally counts because the Quadjumper doesn't have a native TL action.

All true, I knew I was missing some ship-specific upgrades but couldn't figure out which ones Nice!

1 minute ago, PT106 said:

All true, I knew I was missing some ship-specific upgrades but couldn't figure out which ones Nice!

Yeah the Card Browser tab of YASB is really handy for these sorts of things.

1 hour ago, defkhan1 said:

It's actually 21 because I forgot to include Stygium! The ones you missed were Gyroscopic Targeting and Maneuvering Fins. Also, Targeting Computer totally counts because the Quadjumper doesn't have a native TL action.

Is there anything that prevents a ship with native TL from taking Targetting computer?

5 minutes ago, GrimmyV said:

Is there anything that prevents a ship with native TL from taking Targetting computer?

Nope, but its wasted points (same as taking Breach Specialist on a ship without Reinforce action).

6 minutes ago, GrimmyV said:

Is there anything that prevents a ship with native TL from taking Targetting computer?

One would hope common sense, but I don't know of anything in the rules against it. Same with Vectored thrusters on ships with a native BR.

That and we're the only faction without an exclusive upgrade slot (should have been systems and tech). Rebels have droids, scum has illicit and droid, and we just got our first ship with access to the tlt slot, which the other two had exclusive for eleven waves. There is nothing special about the empire, and that's criminal.

6 minutes ago, PT106 said:

Nope, but its wasted points (same as taking Breach Specialist on a ship without Reinforce action).

Hmm, gives me an idea about handicaps in tournaments. Don’t know if it could work but you gotta let the little guy have a chance. Maybe even a penalty for certainly list types, automatically giving one side initiative or even extra squad points to go up against a tough match up. Might be a way to have that side bar folks like to talk about.

Don't be too proud of this Scum-heavy meta you've constructed. The ability to destroy a list is insignificant next to the power of the Gunboat.

1 minute ago, JJ48 said:

"Don't be too proud of this Scum-heavy meta you've constructed. The ability to destroy a list is insignificant next to the power of the Gunboat."

Really, really like mate, well played!

And, to be mildly subjective, it seems the top ships: K-Wing, JMK5, and the Skurrg are usually not in most Star Wars fan's lists of favorite ships, of coolest looking ships, or most aggressively stylized ships...if they are even recognizable to them at all. So, with that in mind, we all know that even if the Empire has been designed and nerfed --err, um balanced-- into high-level tournament obscurity, most of us can at least proclaim: d*** those are some gorgeous ships! ?

1 hour ago, HolySorcerer said:

That and we're the only faction without an exclusive upgrade slot (should have been systems and tech). Rebels have droids, scum has illicit and droid, and we just got our first ship with access to the tlt slot, which the other two had exclusive for eleven waves. There is nothing special about the empire, and that's criminal.

Technically, scum's only had it for 6 waves, since they didn't exist for the first 5. And no one actually had access to TLT for the first 6 waves

1 minute ago, VanderLegion said:

Technically, scum's only had it for 6 waves, since they didn't exist for the first 5. And no one actually had access to TLT for the first 6 waves

They still had access to the tlt slot, even if they didn't have tlt to put into it.

Just now, HolySorcerer said:

They still had access to the tlt slot, even if they didn't have tlt to put into it.

Hence my saying they didn't have access to TLT itself. The slot wasn't nearly as good before TLT released as it is now. And scum still didn't have it the first 5 waves

"TLT slot" is apt description of the turret slot lol

5 minutes ago, defkhan1 said:

"TLT slot" is apt description of the turret slot lol

Sometimes I wonder if TLT should've been an unique card.

5 hours ago, JJ48 said:

Don't be too proud of this Scum-heavy meta you've constructed. The ability to destroy a list is insignificant next to the power of the Gunboat.

Bravo!

Remember when FFG previewed the Tie Aggressor and we were excited to finally have TLT? Because it's so good?

lol Scum and Rebels use TLTs to such great effect and Imperials can't field them if they want to make the cut.

2 hours ago, defkhan1 said:

"TLT slot" is apt description of the turret slot lol

In my day we only had Ion turrets and we liked em! No fancy titles or mod-I-fy-cashuns. Just here you go, have another Ion token, you jerk Swarm flyer.

Just coming back into the game here, but my thoughts on the Gunboat surviving the turret/bomb meta is if they can tank the worst the bombs can do and dish out enough damage on their carriers to start killing them. First try might be three Lambdas with HLCs and Gunners. Deploy in a corner and play it slow so they come to you.

The thought of a bomb meta bypassing agility makes me think of the pain we're suffering in Armada with Assault Proton Torpedoes (or rebel ships in general). On a crit result it's an auto face-up damage regardless of your defense ability unless you can somehow wipe out that critical hit result from the pool. Ouch!

Thinking about it, the most resilient Imperial ships aren't that maneuverable and don't have access to cannons. The cannon carriers the Empire does have are on the pricy side (firesprays, TIE/D) or don't move well (Lambda). If the most expensive ace is 26, I imagine the generics are a lot cheaper, allowing you to field multiple Gunboats with cannons of your choice. If they can turn around and actually maneuver, they'll be better than a lambda wall that tanks a hit and tries to annihilate any aces in front of it.

Or am I missing something? I've been out of the game for a while.

@Norsehound, that’s actually a well thought out plan for the GUNBOAT anti-bomb patrol. But you need to put some whining and doom and gloom in there because thread is about how everything sucks before it even ships.

10 minutes ago, Norsehound said:

Just coming back into the game...

...Thinking about it, the most resilient Imperial ships aren't that maneuverable and don't have access to cannons. The cannon carriers the Empire does have are on the pricy side (firesprays, TIE/D) or don't move well (Lambda). If the most expensive ace is 26, I imagine the generics are a lot cheaper, allowing you to field multiple Gunboats with cannons of your choice. If they can turn around and actually maneuver, they'll be better than a lambda wall that tanks a hit and tries to annihilate any aces in front of it.

Or am I missing something? I've been out of the game for a while.

Welcome back. Enjoying it?

You'll be able to field three of them when properly upgraded.

Sadly, I don't see their dials allowing them to be able to stay in the fight and not just run over bombs/fall prey to TLT carousel'ing around the map.

Maybe if they have a white 2-turn..

Anyway, why have five Cruise missiles?

1 hour ago, Norsehound said:

The thought of a bomb meta bypassing agility makes me think of the pain we're suffering in Armada with Assault Proton Torpedoes (or rebel ships in general). On a crit result it's an auto face-up damage regardless of your defense ability unless you can somehow wipe out that critical hit

It's Armada, man. You're taking damage regardless (though there is an upgrade that lets you Contain crit effects now)

You dodge assault protons same way you dodge bombs, don't be in close range of the super deadly thing

Though Armada does this better because you have more ships to burn and can therefore deal with high power close range ships just by foddering a crappy raider or hammerhead and then lighting the bastard up. Said close range ships also can't hurt you for **** at long range (for their cost)

In xwing we got less ships to lose and, more importantly, the high damage close range bomb ships ALSO get TLTs for some of the best long range offense in the game (or have dash/dengar torps)

Not having defense dice isn't the problem (it's the opposite), it's that turrets are just too powerful an advantage that also happen to simultaneously exploit and counter bombs

1 hour ago, Norsehound said:

Just coming back into the game here, but my thoughts on the Gunboat surviving the turret/bomb meta is if they can tank the worst the bombs can do and dish out enough damage on their carriers to start killing them. First try might be three Lambdas with HLCs and Gunners. Deploy in a corner and play it slow so they come to you.

The thought of a bomb meta bypassing agility makes me think of the pain we're suffering in Armada with Assault Proton Torpedoes (or rebel ships in general). On a crit result it's an auto face-up damage regardless of your defense ability unless you can somehow wipe out that critical hit result from the pool. Ouch!

Thinking about it, the most resilient Imperial ships aren't that maneuverable and don't have access to cannons. The cannon carriers the Empire does have are on the pricy side (firesprays, TIE/D) or don't move well (Lambda). If the most expensive ace is 26, I imagine the generics are a lot cheaper, allowing you to field multiple Gunboats with cannons of your choice. If they can turn around and actually maneuver, they'll be better than a lambda wall that tanks a hit and tries to annihilate any aces in front of it.

Or am I missing something? I've been out of the game for a while.

DCO is your friend. Contain that APT before it even has a chance. I've a funny feeling that'll be more common once Profundity/Raddus hits the tables...

ANYWHO. At the very least, the Gunboats can SLAM, so if they at least have a white hard anything, they can turn around, albeit at the cost of a shot (ignoring the title). I doubt they'll be as fast as the Defender, but if they have something comparable to the Bomber dial, I'll be pretty darn happy. A white 2turn would be nice over the red of the Bomber dial, but if it's a carbon copy, I won't be unhappy. It's not the most maneuverable, but I've found it to be remarkably efficient when lining up for ordnance.

Ordnance title almost def seems to let you ordnance through SLAM

with no text room for points restrictions either

Great for positioning away from bombs, useless for dodging turrets

Thing is, these days most of the bombers are 1Agi turrets, so it's kind of a mixed bag. 4x Gunboats with an ordnance title that lets you fire through the disabled token vs a 2x bomb/TLT list is going to result in the trade of a Gunboat for the entire opposing list if played right, so I'm kind of ok with it not being the death of all turrets, but a solid counter to bomber/turrret two-ship combos. I've pulled it off regularly with Homing Missile TIE Bombers, I don't see why Gunboats would be different (if anything, they're tankier).

1 hour ago, GrimmyV said:

@Norsehound, that’s actually a well thought out plan for the GUNBOAT anti-bomb patrol. But you need to put some whining and doom and gloom in there because thread is about how everything sucks before it even ships.

Not it’s not. This is the other Imperial thread. You’re crossing streams here. Dangerous.