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Why can't I just delete a duplicate post.

Geez whiz, how many got posted?

Deleted: Double Post

2 minutes ago, Ken at Sunrise said:

I don't know if counting pilots is a good test. This would only show how cheap, in points, there pilots are per squad rather than the factions actually fielded in a tournament.

Even if limited to the top20 sorted by magic, so performance?

Just now, GreenDragoon said:

Even if limited to the top20 sorted by magic, so performance?

Unlike Star Trek: Attack Wing we can't mix factions into a single squad. So regardless of how good, bad, expensive or cheap a pilot is, it is the faction that gets to the table with it's pilots. Not the other way around. So yes, you could say the chart may compare performance, but it could also relate to the cost of synergy within a given faction, or any other number of thing.

But either way, we still field 1 squad per player and that squad, regardless of the number of pilots, is a single faction.

Is @Ken at Sunrise a bot stuck in a loop for anyone else, or is it just me?

Just now, JJ48 said:

Is @Ken at Sunrise a bot stuck in a loop for anyone else, or is it just me?

I was definitely stuck. It didn't appear to post so I continued to hit the submit without realizing that I was posting multiple times.

Sorry for that everyone.

27 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

This.

Plus, please plastic gods: can we please get a Scum dial on this thing??

Amen to that!

5 minutes ago, Ken at Sunrise said:

But either way, we still field 1 squad per player and that squad, regardless of the number of pilots, is a single faction.

I agree. But the question is then: is this whine-thread interested in the amount of imperial squads played, or in the success once they are played?

Because the former is not necessarily linked to the necessity of a correction. The latter is.

Just now, GreenDragoon said:

I agree. But the question is then: is this whine-thread interested in the amount of imperial squads played, or in the success once they are played?

Because the former is not necessarily linked to the necessity of a correction. The latter is.

Very true.

Winning by "best-metas" is not for us . The emperor command us to pursue the path of anger and hate, there you are. You should keep faith.

There are so many of these "Imperials are dying!" threads, I can't keep up. How many of the folks involved in these threads actually play in the events they're citing for statistics? Or are they all just huge @Starslinger72 fans?

If Imperial players would just take RAC/Kylo with your ace of choice to big events in the same numbers that people bring Miranda and Nym, then Imperials would dumpster all of these 2-ship lists and you'd see significantly different results. If @pheaver would have run into one of those in his swiss rounds, he may not have even made the cut.

22 minutes ago, Ken at Sunrise said:

I don't know if counting pilots is a good test. This would only show how cheap, in points, there pilots are per squad rather than the factions actually fielded in a tournament.

It is definitely a better test than looking at archetypes, because archetypes as defined right now are underrepresenting Imperial faction by putting similar Imperial squads into multiple archetypes as opposed to combining them.

3 hours ago, Naechtweard said:

How much of that is due to the fact that, with the exception of RAC+[x], Imperial squads are three-ship lists rather the two-ship dominant Rebel and Scum lists?

allright I was curious enough.

The average squad size for the archetypes limited to nationals over all factions in wave11 is 2.9252.65. For only imperials, it's 3.1 2.92, Rebel 2.9 2.61 and Scum 2.8 2.53

Based on that I would say the influence is very small.

edit: I found a mistake, edited in the correct numbers
@Naechtweard, the initial numbers were wrong. These should be correct based on all 428 squads since 13th of July.

45 minutes ago, Managarmr said:

Like the Z95, Y-wing, Hwk or G1A?

Sorry, could not resist. But the constant whining about "the Scum" gets a bit grating, there quite a lot of average to (from a WAAC point of view) mediocre or even outright underperforming ships and pilots in the faction as well.

Sorry, you are correct, my light-hearted lament and prayer to the plastic gods was a bit rhetorical in that it's Scum wave 8 plus, as that's when the dials for Scum got gud ?

Imperial squads are both less popular and less successful. In truth the two things will frequently be co-related.

26 minutes ago, gennataos said:

There are so many of these "Imperials are dying!" threads, I can't keep up. How many of the folks involved in these threads actually play in the events they're citing for statistics? Or are they all just huge @Starslinger72 fans?

If Imperial players would just take RAC/Kylo with your ace of choice to big events in the same numbers that people bring Miranda and Nym, then Imperials would dumpster all of these 2-ship lists and you'd see significantly different results. If @pheaver would have run into one of those in his swiss rounds, he may not have even made the cut.

They have been taken, but they don't get much past top 16. And the idea that the Empire has to play one list to get up there isn't healthy either. At least back with Palp and x7, there was more than one option, and not even one that is proven enough.

People seem to think numbers are the thing, but it's not the deciding factor. The first couple of System Opens before the big nerf, Rebels were the clear minority of teams brought, yet they still managed to get some good places in the cut, even win some.

55 minutes ago, gennataos said:

How many of the folks involved in these threads actually play in the events they're citing for statistics?

More than you might think. And after flying uphill into the gale against Rebel bombers and Scum token farms the anger is so real that you feel compelled to rail against the unbalanced machine. Why else do you think we care to post?

I think deciding the state of the game based on the top cuts of major tournaments is unhealthy. The simple fact is the vast majority of players lamenting won't make the top cuts regardless of which list they take.

This data has value for the most competitive players out there but should mean very little to the rest of us normies.

When I get served a beer, I don't look directly down from above to determine the pour.

"Excuse me, barkeep? You seem to be wiping beer from the meta. This is obviously 100% foam, as evidenced by this top-down view."

1 minute ago, Lobokai said:

More than you might think. And after flying uphill into the gale against Rebel bombers and Scum token farms the anger is so real that you feel compelled to rail against the unbalanced machine. Why else do you think we care to post?

That doesn't really tell me anything, though. Are people Imperial faction-loyalists and no matter what they put on the table, they can't win? Or are they archetype/pilot loyalists, and their favorite archetype/pilot has been pushed out, but they're unwilling to deviate from that archetype/pilot? Or...do they prefer Imperials, but feel they can't win with them, so they switch to the new Scum/Rebel hotness for a GenCon run and still end up not making Day 2?

Plus, see this below.

Just now, Sekac said:

I think deciding the state of the game based on the top cuts of major tournaments is unhealthy. The simple fact is the vast majority of players lamenting won't make the top cuts regardless of which list they take.

This data has value for the most competitive players out there but should mean very little to the rest of us normies.

4 minutes ago, Sekac said:

I think deciding the state of the game based on the top cuts of major tournaments is unhealthy. The simple fact is the vast majority of players lamenting won't make the top cuts regardless of which list they take.

This data has value for the most competitive players out there but should mean very little to the rest of us normies.

When I get served a beer, I don't look directly down from above to determine the pour.

"Excuse me, barkeep? You seem to be wiping beer from the meta. This is obviously 100% foam, as evidenced by this top-down view."

I keep seeing this and I don't understand it. Yes, a lot of us will never make it to the top slots and most likely just deal with our own little metas. But the top slots actually strip away the local attitudes to show what is actually preforming. I think that is important to know, even if I just want to go play in a town over from me.

Overly fixating isn't good, but ignoring seems counter productive, especially for those who do care about the competitive scene. My local meta is pretty relaxed and I can generally fly what I want. It's nice. But that doesn't mean I'm not interested in how the game works else where or concerned with trends within it.