1 hour ago, VanderLegion said:

Lothal Open was won by commonwealth defenders at the end of February. And that wasn't exactly a small tournament. Kashyyyk had triple defenders as the runner up (but did indeed lose to paratanni)

This statement makes me think that Commonwealth was actually pretty balanced then (at least for higher power level ships).

At the top end of competition it was, but it was horrific for the more casual majority who came up against it.

3 minutes ago, Favoritism Flight Games said:

This statement makes me think that Commonwealth was actually pretty balanced then (at least for higher power level ships).

I find it funny that Imperial players (not necessarily you in particular) mostly lament the lack of aces in the game, but also miss the Defender being in the game when it was one of the main reasons aces fell out of favor—why take Soontir when you can have something equally tanky with better offense?

Also, saying that something is balanced compared to Paratanni is saying that it was unbalanced as all ****. That’s not a good standard; just because other things were also toxic and op doesn’t mean Defenders weren’t.

10 minutes ago, Ailowynn said:

I find it funny that Imperial players (not necessarily you in particular) mostly lament the lack of aces in the game, but also miss the Defender being in the game when it was one of the main reasons aces fell out of favor—why take Soontir when you can have something equally tanky with better offense?

Also, saying that something is balanced compared to Paratanni is saying that it was unbalanced as all ****. That’s not a good standard; just because other things were also toxic and op doesn’t mean Defenders weren’t.

Aces and Defenders have way different play styles, so missing both is viable. Plus, I think it is less the Defenders that pushed them out as what was used to combat the defenders were also super effective against aces.

15 minutes ago, SOTL said:

At the top end of competition it was, but it was horrific for the more casual majority who came up against it.

10 minutes ago, Ailowynn said:

I find it funny that Imperial players (not necessarily you in particular) mostly lament the lack of aces in the game, but also miss the Defender being in the game when it was one of the main reasons aces fell out of favor—why take Soontir when you can have something equally tanky with better offense?

Also, saying that something is balanced compared to Paratanni is saying that it was unbalanced as all ****. That’s not a good standard; just because other things were also toxic and op doesn’t mean Defenders weren’t.

Oh yeah I totally agree with you guys. From a casual perspective, Commonwealth was above the power curve for sure. I guess what just gets me about it is the singling out of Imperials to remove them from top competition. I would have been much more OK with the Nerfageddon if it had come with JM5K cost increase, Miranda regen nerf, Sabine nerf, Adv. Slam nerf, Biggs nerf, and possibly a Fenn Rau nerf. Now add to that a Nym nerf (god I hate Nym and whoever designed him), and maybe we'll get back to a balanced state.

23 minutes ago, Favoritism Flight Games said:

I would have been OK with the Nerfageddon if it had also nerfed the other power ships and cards too, perhaps come with: a JM5K cost increase, Miranda regen nerf, Sabine nerf, Adv. Slam nerf, Biggs nerf, and now a Nym nerf; then maybe we'll get back to a balanced state.

Fixed it for you sir.

As much as players like to salt things, rant and argue, in this game it seems there are things that we can all agree on, and ALL players I know, regardless of their preferred faction, would agree with you wholeheartedly @Favoritism Flight Games on the --slightly edited-- comment above.

Salt aside, to a man, we all know what the OP stuff is....it's pretty d*** clear.

If I was an Imperial player, I'd just embrace Kylo and run with him. You'll likely find a lot more 2-ship lists to crush at tournaments soon. Harpoon missiles will probably have an immediate impact on 3+ ship lists. As a Rebel-only player, I'm dreading those things dropping. Of the 11 lists I'm flying right now, 8 of them have at least one pilot which has a Range 1 ability (Lowhhrick, Jess, Biggs, Ahsoka or Airen). Of the 3 lists remaining, I'd consider one actually competitive (Rey/Miranda).

I get that people want to fly other stuff, but if you're loyal to a faction, you have to roll with what works (at tournaments).

Just now, gennataos said:

If I was an Imperial player, I'd just embrace Kylo and run with him. You'll likely find a lot more 2-ship lists to crush at tournaments soon. Harpoon missiles will probably have an immediate impact on 3+ ship lists. As a Rebel-only player, I'm dreading those things dropping. Of the 11 lists I'm flying right now, 8 of them have at least one pilot which has a Range 1 ability (Lowhhrick, Jess, Biggs, Ahsoka or Airen). Of the 3 lists remaining, I'd consider one actually competitive (Rey/Miranda).

I get that people want to fly other stuff, but if you're loyal to a faction, you have to roll with what works (at tournaments).

But if you didn't have people blocked, you would actually hear about how RAC doesn't cut it either.

3 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

But if you didn't have people blocked, you would actually hear about how RAC doesn't cut it either.

I read some posts...sometimes. It just gets to be a too much when the same half dozen people are complaining about the same things in just about any thread in which they post. We get it, Imperials are down. You roll with what you can and see how the meta shifts when the next wave or FAQ hits.

I see people making cuts with RAC.

15 minutes ago, gennataos said:

If I was an Imperial player, I'd just embrace Kylo and run with him. You'll likely find a lot more 2-ship lists to crush at tournaments soon. Harpoon missiles will probably have an immediate impact on 3+ ship lists. As a Rebel-only player, I'm dreading those things dropping. Of the 11 lists I'm flying right now, 8 of them have at least one pilot which has a Range 1 ability (Lowhhrick, Jess, Biggs, Ahsoka or Airen). Of the 3 lists remaining, I'd consider one actually competitive (Rey/Miranda).

I get that people want to fly other stuff, but if you're loyal to a faction, you have to roll with what works (at tournaments).

Harpoons work well v 2 ships too because the condition holder is also damaged by the trigger

Problem with empire is it has no easy ordnance carriers that can flip crits on DEADEYE munitions. Compare to SCURRG or vaksai or even Kim

You'd have to crank some jank to make it work reliably especially because the crit dealer has to attack after the missile condition is applied

1 minute ago, ficklegreendice said:

Harpoons work well v 2 ships too because the condition holder is also damaged by the trigger

Problem with empire is it has no easy ordnance carriers that can flip crits on DEADEYE munitions. Compare to SCURRG or vaksai or even Kim

You'd have to crank some jank to make it work reliably especially because the crit dealer has to attack after the missile condition is applied

I'm not saying Imperials would necessarily be carrying Harpoon missiles. I'm saying any ship of any faction which is carrying a Homing missile and many who carry Cruise Missiles are probably going to start carrying Harpoon missiles. As an example of the impact, FSR is probably going to disappear overnight.

9 minutes ago, gennataos said:

I read some posts...sometimes. It just gets to be a too much when the same half dozen people are complaining about the same things in just about any thread in which they post. We get it, Imperials are down. You roll with what you can and see how the meta shifts when the next wave or FAQ hits.

I see people making cuts with RAC.

As are PS 11 cruise missiles, but it is rare for either list to get past top 16, and only one outlier has made it to the top table, but it wasn't RAC. Doubling down on RAC isn't gonna help that. If RAC had taken home just one Nationals, I'd see your point, but his successes aren't enough to prove Imperial Players should just fly RAC lists.

38 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

As are PS 11 cruise missiles, but it is rare for either list to get past top 16, and only one outlier has made it to the top table, but it wasn't RAC. Doubling down on RAC isn't gonna help that. If RAC had taken home just one Nationals, I'd see your point, but his successes aren't enough to prove Imperial Players should just fly RAC lists.

Well, like I said, you've gotta roll with what works. RAC and Imperial Alpha seems to do the best for Imperials at big events, if that's your criteria for "what works".

Other than that, what can you really do? I get being frustrated. I also get wanting to vent that frustration. But at some point one just has to move on and make do with what's available.. These forum threads aren't going to have any tangible influence on the design of the game.

22 minutes ago, gennataos said:

If I was an Imperial player, I'd just embrace Kylo and run with him. You'll likely find a lot more 2-ship lists to crush at tournaments soon. Harpoon missiles will probably have an immediate impact on 3+ ship lists. As a Rebel-only player, I'm dreading those things dropping. Of the 11 lists I'm flying right now, 8 of them have at least one pilot which has a Range 1 ability (Lowhhrick, Jess, Biggs, Ahsoka or Airen). Of the 3 lists remaining, I'd consider one actually competitive (Rey/Miranda).

I get that people want to fly other stuff, but if you're loyal to a faction, you have to roll with what works (at tournaments).

I agree with a lot of what you’re saying here; every faction and every play style has its highs and its lows. A year ago, Rebels were finally scraping their way back into competitive viability; now, they’re one of the top dogs.

Harpoon missiles will be...interesting. I’ll have to play them to see what I really think, but I feel like (four ship) Rebels will still be playable. Try Roark alongside Rex, or Thane instead of Jess; the mainstays will change, but there are still good ships out there.

1 minute ago, gennataos said:

Well, like I said, you've gotta roll with what works. RAC and Imperial Alpha seems to do the best for Imperials at big events, if that's your criteria for "what works".

Other than that, what can you really do? I get being frustrated. I also get wanting to vent that frustration. But at some point one just has to move on and make do with what's available.. These forum threads aren't going to have any tangible influence on the design of the game.

Fair enough, but people coming in and telling them how to go with what works and interjecting their interpretation of what works only adds to problems rather than helps.

Let me ask you this: how much and how high have you taken an Imperial list?

1 hour ago, ficklegreendice said:

Harpoons work well v 2 ships too because the condition holder is also damaged by the trigger

Problem with empire is it has no easy ordnance carriers that can flip crits on DEADEYE munitions. Compare to SCURRG or vaksai or even Kim

You'd have to crank some jank to make it work reliably especially because the crit dealer has to attack after the missile condition is applied

RAC has a built in crit mechanic and is one of the best imperial ships. No faction should have an easier time than imperials at triggering harpoons.

15 minutes ago, Ailowynn said:

Harpoon missiles will be...interesting. I’ll have to play them to see what I really think, but I feel like (four ship) Rebels will still be playable.

I'm playing a Harpoon ImpAlpha list in both the TC Open and vassal league. So far I'm convinced that they are a mistake. At least spending the TL would have been necessary. A QD with ASTS has around a 93% chance to get a crit - so she will procc one of the two previous harpoons, dealing up to 5 damage with her own, plus one for each ship in range 1.

The only reason why it's not flat out OP is because the three carriers are bad* aces after they shot them. But then again, blowing out 1/3 to 1/2 of the enemy list in a turn is not a bad trad to try to take on the second ship with your three bad aces.

*A Vader without Engine, an Inq without PTL/AT, and a QD without LWF

20 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

Fair enough, but people coming in and telling them how to go with what works and interjecting their interpretation of what works only adds to problems rather than helps.

Let me ask you this: how much and how high have you taken an Imperial list?

The first part is a fair point. If folks like myself would stop posting in the bitchfest threads and instead ignored them altogether, it would be for the best.

On the second part, dear lord...since I've already said I'm a Rebel-only player, that would be never and no where. You can feel free to follow up with the planned, "Then you wouldn't know!" reply.

But, back to the first point. Sure, I'll duck out. You and your cronies keep posting about how Imperials are oppressed. I'll go post on my dumb threads about trying to making A-Wings work. They're both equally futile, but whatever.

3 minutes ago, gennataos said:

You and your cronies keep posting about how Imperials are oppressed.

Cronie, here..

Circa today, is the Imperial faction equally designed and represented in the meta as compared to the other two factions?

No parsing words or symantec ninja'ing. Yes or no.

Just now, gennataos said:

The first part is a fair point. If folks like myself would stop posting in the bitchfest threads and instead ignored them altogether, it would be for the best.

On the second part, dear lord...since I've already said I'm a Rebel-only player, that would be never and no where. You can feel free to follow up with the planned, "Then you wouldn't know!" reply.

But, back to the first point. Sure, I'll duck out. You and your cronies keep posting about how Imperials are oppressed. I'll go post on my dumb threads about trying to making A-Wings work. They're both equally futile, but whatever.

No, I would ask you to consider that someone that you consider "cronies" might know more about the faction they play regularly and you don't. This is a free space. You can give advice all you want and I encourage it. But realize that your word isn't scripture and you can be wrong. But that also means you can be right.

The reason I really asked is because earlier in this thread, you asked a very similar question to other people and made judgement calls on how much they could contribute to the conversation based on if they had been at the tournaments or not. And you were asked if you did the same by several (myself included), but you brushed them off. I wanted to see you actually answer a question and not just push yours. I was actually expecting no response, based on how I've seen you act in this and other threads.

You are showing off some of the same behavior patterns I would ascribe to a complainer who has gone too far, including vilifying the opposition. If you would like to approach this as a conversation rather than a hostile interrogation, I would be happy to try to explain my view point. Afterward, you can decide what to do with it. But that also requires you to be willing to listen and to answer questions honestly and without venom.

37 minutes ago, Sekac said:

RAC has a built in crit mechanic and is one of the best imperial ships. No faction should have an easier time than imperials at triggering harpoons.

Scum can trigger harpoons with harpoons. Just deadeye gchips on a SCURRG, Kim or vaksai

Cheri is a ps 10. You need a ps 10 or 11 farting off harpoons before he fires to trigger him

This runs DIRECTLY counter to the purpose of HCP Gunner kylo Cheri

1 hour ago, gennataos said:

These forum threads aren't going to have any tangible influence on the design of the game.

Gunboat says hi.

55 minutes ago, Sekac said:

RAC has a built in crit mechanic and is one of the best imperial ships. No faction should have an easier time than imperials at triggering harpoons.

RAC is also 50%+ of your list, which gives you at most 2 harpoons on the other ships (which would have to be cheap bombers or TAPs or non-TLT aggressors). I don't think the Empire has the easiest time with crits for Harpoon, that definitely goes to the 3 dice missile carrying scum. Deadeye scurrgs with harpoon are nasty so far the couple times I've tested them, even deadeye Vaksai title Khiraxz are great for getting harpoons off and triggering the condition. I do think Harpoons will reduce the number of Fairship Rebels, which is good for RAClo lists. On the other hand, I don't think they'll be as bad for quad TLT or triple jumpmasters, two other lists that are kinda rough for RAClo. Using Palpatine for a crit is probably the better "sure thing" crit for Empire, or Vader with ATC.

I do agree that they seem to be clear power creep. I can't see any time I would rather have a concussion missile than a harpoon, maybe against one opponent ship if I'm running a lot of ships?

2 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

Scum can trigger harpoons with harpoons. Just deadeye gchips on a SCURRG, Kim or vaksai

Cheri is a ps 10. You need a ps 10 or 11 farting off harpoons before he fires to trigger him

This runs DIRECTLY counter to the purpose of HCP Gunner kylo Cheri

Scum has to have the ship in arc at range 2-3, which is a much smaller area than range 1-2 on a large base turret.

RAC+Vader and RAC+Quickdraw are both good imperial lists and harpoons will slot in perfectly.

Take a different RAC build then? I'm not sure I get that point. Nobody is forcing you to take those 3 crew.

RAC with Emperor and Kylo, Vader with harpoons and ATC seems like an EXTREMELY reliable list for triggering harpooned. 3 crit sources per turn between 2 ships with PS 10+ and repositional power oughtta do

And a grand total of 1 harpoon in the entire list. I dunno if 1 harpoon is going to massively change the RAC/Ace vs Fairship Rebel dynamic in favor of the RAC player. Meanwhile, triple deadeye scurrgs have 3-6 harpoons depending on loadout, and can trigger harpooned while putting harpooned on someone. I think there is definitely a case for 1 point more for harpoon over cruise in a RAC/Ace list but then again PS 11 Vader really likes his cruise missiles and gets a 1 point bid over the exact same list with harpoon missiles.