34 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

They were meta defining for a while because they were everywhere and were the only list that could hold up at the top levels, but the list never made it to the top spot.

Then it was quickly nerfed....

Begs the rhetorical question that goes on unanswered for almost a year: why haven't the FFG designers done the same to the other faction's meta defining top dogs???

Uh, they have

DEADEYE (generic upgrade but let's not fool ourselves, it was jump only) zuckuss and manaroo

Only difference is in how overpowered jumps are, which allowed them to remain overpowered

9 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Those nerfs were entirely necessary.

And made the x7 more fun!

4 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Those nerfs were entirely necessary.

How? Nerfing Palpy killed Fel, Vader, Inqui, any ace that depended on green dice. The x7s weren’t unbeatable but they were tough. But so were Triple Toilets and Manaroo and Paratanni, etc. it seems the more the Humpmaster got nerfed and the layers peeled we got to see exactly how broken that ship was. And now Nym/Sabine bombiness would totally wreck those defenders with or without the nerf.

11 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Those nerfs were entirely necessary.

Amen! I haven't seen a Palp-mobile since! Now I only see an occasional Palp on RAC to help push through crits. Also, I only see the occasional Vessery with x7- pretty much don't see Ryad or any of the other Defender pilots anymore.

If the necessity was wiping a successful archetype out of the game (one which kept Triple Jumps in check), THEN MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!

And here we are, back in an era where the JM5K rules supreme again.

Didn’t know Nym rode a Humpmaster 5k.

Nym is the first "real" Bomber platform with an EPT; how's that?

14 minutes ago, GrimmyV said:

How? Nerfing Palpy killed Fel, Vader, Inqui, any ace that depended on green dice. The x7s weren’t unbeatable but they were tough. But so were Triple Toilets and Manaroo and Paratanni, etc. it seems the more the Humpmaster got nerfed and the layers peeled we got to see exactly how broken that ship was. And now Nym/Sabine bombiness would totally wreck those defenders with or without the nerf.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Just now, Stay On The Leader said:

Two wrongs don't make a right.

But three rights do make a left!

27 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Those nerfs were entirely necessary.

Nope, they weren't. In fact, they should be rolled back immediately.

1 minute ago, FTS Gecko said:

Nope, they weren't. In fact, they should be rolled back immediately.

**** no

we should be encouraging mechanics that don't work if you fly poorly, ala the errated x7

****, I've heard people wanting to do the exact same thing to "Genius" and I can't say I don't agree

also k4

Just now, FTS Gecko said:

Nope, they weren't. In fact, they should be rolled back immediately.

Or at the very least until FFG is ready to deal with the other Factions meta powerhouses.

21 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

Or at the very least until FFG is ready to deal with the other Factions meta powerhouses.

This. Gonna nerf things into the ground, ok. Nerfing one of three into the ground was a total **** move. Better believe rebel fans would be screaming just as loud if biggs and miranda were nerfed and nothing else. FFG either can’t or won’t nerf scum properly so they continue immune.

21 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

**** no

we should be encouraging mechanics that don't work if you fly poorly, ala the errated x7

****, I've heard people wanting to do the exact same thing to "Genius" and I can't say I don't agree

also k4

But when you rely on fickle green dice to keep your ships alive you need something that can guarantee you at least some evades results. Was x7 a bit too good? Maybe. But seeing as the other factions (still) have downright bonkers OP stuff I found it a bit insulting to nerf a ship that for the first time in its life was seeing serious play. They didn't even buff the lackluster /d title to make up for it. It's really hard not to feel like there is an anti-Imperial bias on the design team.

2 hours ago, Bolshevik65 said:

Re Victory class star destroyers. Stick Minister Tua on it, that gives access to Electronic Counter Measures. If the enemy use an Accuracy against your Brace (the defence token that halves damage) the ECM negates it. It is not permitted to use two Accuracies against the brace.

Disposable Capacitors allow you to throw fire medium range blue dice weapons out to long range for one turn.

Moff Jerjerrod allows you to take a point of damage in order to turn tighter.

I don't think the VSD is fantastic but it's far from impotent now FFG have issued these upgrade cards.

The VSD is in a better spot at least than the Assault Frigate is, but the fact that you have to give up your officer slot for unique defense solutions on your VSDs gives them exploits when you're trying to increase their defensive potential. Sure, I have Tua on one and Needa on the other- that means my opponent is going to concentrate fire on Needa and close with that VSD to destroy it first, since it's the one with more vulnerabilities. So long as the Rebels have more of their cheaper flotillas, they can deploy-delay until the target VSDs are in position. Since Empire stuff is more expensive across the board, Rebels can force Imperial deployments into bad position a lot easier.

And VSDs still have nothing to prevent getting slammed with critical effects. Even shooting barrages of XX-9s at them is something the VSDs can't handle.

All that's for the Armada forum, I was just pointing out how Imperial suffering isn't unique to X-Wing. At least Armada Imp Aces are pretty good, and Sloane lets them demolish capital ships better now?

---------------

Here in X-Wing I think the Imperial problem lies more with how impotent high-manuerability is in the meta. Bombs and Turrets are effects that take away positioning and maneuver which is supposed to be the Imperial "thing". Once that no longer matters, firepower and resiliency are more important, and Rebels (and it seems Scum) have advantages in this, leaving the Empire out.

If there's a thing Imperial players should (and are) rightly grouse about, it's how much maneuver is no longer important. If a High PS ace is dropping un-evadable bombs, and attack power upgrades are given to generic turrets, then that's a problem.

2 hours ago, Favoritism Flight Games said:

I'd honestly love to see how reverting the FAQ nerfs to x7 and Palp changed things. It's not like x7 is necessary- there's stuff that doesn't get punished for bad flying (K4 Security Droid, Nym), so why even pretend like the devs care about bad flying being punished?

Reverting the palp and x7 nerfs would just push autodamage even further into the forefront as the only way to actually kill them.

2 hours ago, clanofwolves said:

They were meta defining for a while because they were everywhere and were the only list that could hold up at the top levels, but the list never made it to the top spot.

They won at least a couple system opens as I recall, which is pretty much top as far as I’m concerned. You don’t have to win worlds to be a top list, or OP. They were nerfed before the last worlds, and the one before simply had an even more OP list for scum.

2 hours ago, clanofwolves said:

Then it was quickly nerfed....even though the X7 was their stinking buff to an unused ship so it could see tournament play, WTH?!?

And it’s actually still good, it’s just not over the top anymore.

2 hours ago, clanofwolves said:

Begs the rhetorical question that goes on unanswered for almost a year: why haven't the FFG designers done the same to the other faction's meta defining top dogs???

Scum got nerfs at the same time as imperials. They just adapted and kept going, and still need more.

1 hour ago, Favoritism Flight Games said:

Amen! I haven't seen a Palp-mobile since! Now I only see an occasional Palp on RAC to help push through crits. Also, I only see the occasional Vessery with x7- pretty much don't see Ryad or any of the other Defender pilots anymore.

If the necessity was wiping a successful archetype out of the game (one which kept Triple Jumps in check), THEN MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!

And here we are, back in an era where the JM5K rules supreme again.

There were several palp mobiles in the top 64 at us nationals. One made the top 8.

1 hour ago, LordFajubi said:

This. Gonna nerf things into the ground, ok. Nerfing one of three into the ground was a total **** move. Better believe rebel fans would be screaming just as loud if biggs and miranda were nerfed and nothing else. FFG either can’t or won’t nerf scum properly so they continue immune.

As I said above, they nerfed scum at the same time, just not enough. Rebels didn’t really need a nerf as much at the time.

The unstoppable Scum. They have taken over the space lanes. They have corrupted the Rebellion. They will soon corrupt the Empire if nothing is done to stop them.

And then....GUNBOAT. Empires are built on hope.

(Rear view mirror warning: FAQs may be closer than they appear)

4 hours ago, VanderLegion said:

Reverting the palp and x7 nerfs would just push autodamage even further into the forefront as the only way to actually kill them.

I'm really not sure how that's possible in this meta. Autodamage isn't the only way to kill them and it is already out in force.

6 hours ago, SabineKey said:

Or at the very least until FFG is ready to deal with the other Factions meta powerhouses.

This has an implicit assumption that Rebel/Scum powerhouses aren't going to be affected by the next FAQ (given that x7/Palp reversal can only happen via a new FAQ).

I prefer to be an optimist in that regard

On 9/19/2017 at 0:32 PM, Favoritism Flight Games said:

I'm not PGS, but he's my spirit animal.

Pgs actually had good points, he just expressed them poorly.

If only one of these things was a few pts cheaper...

1 hour ago, PT106 said:

This has an implicit assumption that Rebel/Scum powerhouses aren't going to be affected by the next FAQ (given that x7/Palp reversal can only happen via a new FAQ).

I prefer to be an optimist in that regard

Not at all. I am optimistic that the next FAQ will bring about positive changes. Even if it doesn't address everything, it will be progress.

It's the timeliness of the release I am pessimistic about. Reversing an FAQ can be done very simply, without the need for testing, as should some rules clarification.

7 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

If only one of these things was a few pts cheaper...

Omicron Group Pilot — Lambda-Class Shuttle	21
Collision Detector	0
Emperor Palpatine	8
Ship Total: 29
"Whisper" — TIE Phantom	32
Veteran Instincts	1
Fire-Control System	2
Kylo Ren	3
Advanced Cloaking Device	4
Ship Total: 42
Darth Vader — TIE Advanced	29
Veteran Instincts	1
Advanced Targeting Computer	1
TIE/x1	0
Ship Total: 31

Decoy on Echo, Adaptability on Vader and liberal use of Damaged Cockpits makes it possible (although somewhat weaker)

7 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

Not at all. I am optimistic that the next FAQ will bring about positive changes. Even if it doesn't address everything, it will be progress.

It's the timeliness of the release I am pessimistic about. Reversing an FAQ can be done very simply, without the need for testing, as should some rules clarification.

Its the approval process that is a time sink, so I don't expect a significant difference between doing or undoing FAQ change as far as the speed of the change is concerned.

(And to be fair, I'm personally in 'keep the nerfs and nerf everything else to the same baseline' camp)

13 minutes ago, PT106 said:

Its the approval process that is a time sink, so I don't expect a significant difference between doing or undoing FAQ change as far as the speed of the change is concerned.

(And to be fair, I'm personally in 'keep the nerfs and nerf everything else to the same baseline' camp)

Perhaps not, but without much communication from FFG, it gets frustrating facing silence on important issues in the game.

1 hour ago, SabineKey said:

Not at all. I am optimistic that the next FAQ will bring about positive changes. Even if it doesn't address everything, it will be progress.

Unfortunately if it doesn't address everything, it won't be enough progress. They've had plenty of time to fix these problems, and they haven't.

FFG needs to change it's policy on not FAQing point values. This, and this alone, would allow the game ACTUAL balance. So long as FFG fails to FAQ points, it should be taken as official policy to actively encourage imbalace in the game.

13 minutes ago, Gadgetron said:

Unfortunately if it doesn't address everything, it won't be enough progress. They've had plenty of time to fix these problems, and they haven't.

FFG needs to change it's policy on not FAQing point values. This, and this alone, would allow the game ACTUAL balance. So long as FFG fails to FAQ points, it should be taken as official policy to actively encourage imbalace in the game.

I disagree that changing point values is the only way to get balance. The simplist, yes, but not the only one. Plus actually changing costs can be an unpopular decision and a step beyond changing game text. I personally was very much against even changing game text, but that Pandora's Box was well and truly opened and we are stuck on that path.