4 minutes ago, SabineKey said:Fair. But that makes me further doubt the validity of the purposal if the proponents of it are unwilling to support their claims.
I'd be more than willing to playtest it if I was an FFG playtester, for instance.
Mostly this is just arguing on the internet to kill time, treating it as anything more is a questionable activity at best.
Just now, thespaceinvader said:I'd be more than willing to playtest it if I was an FFG playtester, for instance.
Mostly this is just arguing on the internet to kill time, treating it as anything more is a questionable activity at best.
Makes sense.
And just because it's a way to kill time doesn't mean it can't be fruitful or prove a point.
the HWK could afford to take one for the team if it brings arced ships back into use
course, as mentioned, we need a lot of other nerfs to occur simultaneously with dialing TLT back
1 minute ago, ficklegreendice said:the HWK could afford to take one for the team if it brings arced ships back into use
course, as mentioned, we need a lot of other nerfs to occur simultaneously with dialing TLT back
Considering it already took several for the team in the design phase, I'm not sure how much "affording" it has left.
Besides, there are several arced ships that are held down by other things that would love to tango with TLTs.
This is the toughest one on the "bringing balance to the force" part deux according to my buddy play-testing these things all the way back to last September. All the other play-tested nerfs were seemingly agreed to and set from mind-bending Biggs to the super-valued and amazing Jumpmaster chassis; and yet these fixes have laid on a desk somewhere in FFG headquarters since the early Spring.
I understand and agree with many points and ideas made herein on the thing that is Twin Laser Turrets, but a lot of those are, in a way, are contradictory. This illuminates the difficulties of a TLT nerf.
Who knows, but perhaps this nerf is why the second half of FAQ 4.3.2 has been held up and not yet been released.......
2 hours ago, eagletsi111 said:So by now most of us have seen the interview at Nova where a Star Wars Designer says, TLT is his most hated card and has been for a while now because of how it unbalances the game.
Do you have a link to the interview? I have seen so many people reference it, yet I can't seem to find it.
1 hour ago, Nhoj4 said:Has a video of this panel ever been uploaded?
I've looked for it repeatedly and never been able to find it. The OP's assertion that "Most of us" have seen it is definitely faulty.
10 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:This is the toughest one on the "bringing balance to the force" part deux according to my buddy play-testing these things all the way back to last September. All the other play-tested nerfs were seemingly agreed to and set from mind-bending Biggs to the super-valued and amazing Jumpmaster chassis; and yet these fixes have laid on a desk somewhere in FFG headquarters since the early Spring.
I understand and agree with many points and ideas made herein on the thing that is Twin Laser Turrets, but a lot of those are, in a way, are contradictory. This illuminates the difficulties of a TLT nerf.
Who knows, but perhaps this nerf is why the second half of FAQ 4.3.2 has been held up and not yet been released.......
Didn't the prequel trilogy teach us that brining balance to the Force is a BAD thing?
It probably should only allow the player to roll dice once. I think 6pts is appropriately costed for a range 2-3. 3 dice attack that can plink in 1 damage if it lands and doesnt require a target lock or focus to use or a target in arc.
Edited by Boom Owl9 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:It probably should only allow the player to roll dice once. I think 6pts is appropriately costed for a range 2-3. 3 dice attack that can plink in 1 damage if it lands and doesnt require a target lock or focus to use or a target in arc.
Not in my experience.
25 minutes ago, Kaptin Krunch said:Do you have a link to the interview? I have seen so many people reference it, yet I can't seem to find it.
I watched it live. Sorry. Maybe it's on Steele TV. Don't know.
Just now, eagletsi111 said:I watched it live. Sorry. Maybe it's on Steele TV. Don't know.
It is currently not on SteleTV.
1 hour ago, ViscerothSWG said:TLT is the only useful gun a HWK can take.
Release a HWK Aces pack and only then think about maybe altering TLT slightly.
I disagree with this. The TLT doesn't fix the HWK if it makes every other ship with a turret way too good. Fix TLT, and if Hwks really arent up to snuff without it, then fix it at that point.
we shouldn't need to tape TLT to every competitive list just for the sake of the HWK being "good".
Also, I am pleasantly delighted that nearly everyone here seems to agree on something for once.
That's a big step for this forum (seriously), and speaks volumes about how big of an issue TLT really is.
Let's think about the Fluff behind TLT. From what I understand, it was a rapid firing, accurate, but low damage turret. Something that Low PS pilots could use to have a change at the fearsome Fel. But then the turret turned out to be way too powerful on low agility ships, and forced things like the B-Wing out of the game (and who runs a G1-A?).
How do we keep the anti-ace/anti-high agility focus of this turret and lower its impact on low agility ships?
Here's an idea of mine:
Instead of rolling 3 dice, roll a number of dice equal to the agility value of the target ship.
Sure, you'll roll 0 dice against the Decimator. That's ok with me because your needle laser doesn't penetrate the armor. Against the 3 AGI aces, you'll continue to roll 3 dice to simulate the more accurate nature of this weapon. Thoughts?
8 minutes ago, JohnWE said:Instead of rolling 3 dice, roll a number of dice equal to the agility value of the target ship.
Sure, you'll roll 0 dice against the Decimator. That's ok with me because your needle laser doesn't penetrate the armor. Against the 3 AGI aces, you'll continue to roll 3 dice to simulate the more accurate nature of this weapon. Thoughts?
I think having it say "to a minimum of 1" would be fine. Rolling 1 dice against a 0 agility ship is still a pretty poor use of an attack.
13 minutes ago, JohnWE said:Let's think about the Fluff behind TLT. From what I understand, it was a rapid firing, accurate, but low damage turret. Something that Low PS pilots could use to have a change at the fearsome Fel. But then the turret turned out to be way too powerful on low agility ships, and forced things like the B-Wing out of the game (and who runs a G1-A?).
How do we keep the anti-ace/anti-high agility focus of this turret and lower its impact on low agility ships?
Here's an idea of mine:
Instead of rolling 3 dice, roll a number of dice equal to the agility value of the target ship.
Sure, you'll roll 0 dice against the Decimator. That's ok with me because your needle laser doesn't penetrate the armor. Against the 3 AGI aces, you'll continue to roll 3 dice to simulate the more accurate nature of this weapon. Thoughts?
Or just make it an attack once with a Gunner effect
****, make it one critical damage. I'm sure kylo would love some aggressor friends
Anyway it'd be accurate and less powerful v shielded ships
Edited by ficklegreendice5 minutes ago, Kdubb said:I think having it say "to a minimum of 1" would be fine. Rolling 1 dice against a 0 agility ship is still a pretty poor use of an attack.
I had the same idea awhile back of rolling dice equal to agility value. Having a minimum of 1 for obvious reasons.
Seems pretty fair. Also screws over Miranda against agility 0 & 1 ships as she has to basically sacrifice one of the TLT shots if she wants to regen.
20 minutes ago, JohnWE said:Let's think about the Fluff behind TLT. From what I understand, it was a rapid firing, accurate, but low damage turret. Something that Low PS pilots could use to have a change at the fearsome Fel. But then the turret turned out to be way too powerful on low agility ships, and forced things like the B-Wing out of the game (and who runs a G1-A?).
How do we keep the anti-ace/anti-high agility focus of this turret and lower its impact on low agility ships?
Here's an idea of mine:
Instead of rolling 3 dice, roll a number of dice equal to the agility value of the target ship.
Sure, you'll roll 0 dice against the Decimator. That's ok with me because your needle laser doesn't penetrate the armor. Against the 3 AGI aces, you'll continue to roll 3 dice to simulate the more accurate nature of this weapon. Thoughts?
Still concerned that it won't be worth the points, but it is at least an interesting solution, with @Kdubb's suggestion added in.
34 minutes ago, JohnWE said:Let's think about the Fluff behind TLT. From what I understand, it was a rapid firing, accurate, but low damage turret. Something that Low PS pilots could use to have a change at the fearsome Fel. But then the turret turned out to be way too powerful on low agility ships, and forced things like the B-Wing out of the game (and who runs a G1-A?).
How do we keep the anti-ace/anti-high agility focus of this turret and lower its impact on low agility ships?
Here's an idea of mine:
Instead of rolling 3 dice, roll a number of dice equal to the agility value of the target ship.
Sure, you'll roll 0 dice against the Decimator. That's ok with me because your needle laser doesn't penetrate the armor. Against the 3 AGI aces, you'll continue to roll 3 dice to simulate the more accurate nature of this weapon. Thoughts?
I like this idea, and I'm even cool with the 0 dice against the Decimator, Ghost, and epic ships; though giving it one die minimum would be okay too.
Alternatively, I've also though that reducing its range to 2 might be a reasonable fix. It would still be very powerful, but you'd actually have to fly the ship it was equipped on, rather than just existing.
4 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:Make it only range 3 in arc, or, make the second attack contingent on either having a lock or having the target in arc.
In arc makes it almost worthless as a turret, especially for 6 points. A target lock requirement wouldn't be bad but drop the in arc stuff.
2 hours ago, Hannes Solo said:If you put a Blaster Turret on a HWK and add a Recon specialist to mitigate it's drawback you are at 7Points + you used the crew upgrade. How would you nerf a TLT so you would consider that combo to be interesting?
The TLT as it is is not a usefull turret it is the mary sue of turrets it is THE turret that sends all other turrets to the binder. It is not a usefull turret it is a terrible OP broken turret and I would not be content with nerfing it from broken-op to still-the-best-turret I wan't it to be nerfed until it is in line with the other turrets and that means that if you want a damage dealing turret you would look at the TLT and the Blaster turret and think about which one to take.
Horse pucky
My two suggestions are at the top, another one is to say it requires a focus to shoot, just like the blaster, but I still like all crits count as misses . It's simple and reduces the effectiveness by nearly 25%, when rolling 3 dice.
I like the TLT only getting a second shot in arc. One shot out of arc, two in arc. Most ships with Turret upgrades would probably prefer an in-arc TLT to a primary attack, so there's still a benefit.
Personally, I think the game needs some kind of range 2-3 turret. TLT, however, is too strong compared to other turrets and crowds them out of the game. The damage output is pretty strong, against some ships, not that different than HLC damage output, except it's a 360 arc. So nerf the TLT damage output in 75% of it's arc coverage.
At the same time, print a new cheaper range 2-3 turret. Let's say: Suppression Turret - 3 (4?) points for a 3 dice attack, range 2-3. If it hits, cancel all but one hit or crit result. Basically, this would lead to a kind of choice. TLT has strong potential damage output in arc, but is most expensive. Suppression turret has great arc coverage, but low damage. Dorsal has worse coverage, but potential for more damage. Ion has control, but is pricey. ABT does it's Autoblaster thing. Synced is high damage but lower range and with the TL requirement. Perhaps revise Blaster Turret to not spend the focus, just have a focus, and maybe give it the Unguided Rockets drawback.
12 minutes ago, eagletsi111 said:My two suggestions are at the top, another one is to say it requires a focus to shoot, just like the blaster, but I still like all crits count as misses . It's simple and reduces the effectiveness by nearly 25%, when rolling 3 dice.
Until you come across an Accuracy Corrector Ghost. Still 2 hits every time.
Edited by theBitterFig1 hour ago, JohnWE said:Let's think about the Fluff behind TLT. From what I understand, it was a rapid firing, accurate, but low damage turret. Something that Low PS pilots could use to have a change at the fearsome Fel. But then the turret turned out to be way too powerful on low agility ships, and forced things like the B-Wing out of the game (and who runs a G1-A?).
How do we keep the anti-ace/anti-high agility focus of this turret and lower its impact on low agility ships?
Here's an idea of mine:
Instead of rolling 3 dice, roll a number of dice equal to the agility value of the target ship.
Sure, you'll roll 0 dice against the Decimator. That's ok with me because your needle laser doesn't penetrate the armor. Against the 3 AGI aces, you'll continue to roll 3 dice to simulate the more accurate nature of this weapon. Thoughts?
It should, if anything, be the inverse. TLT, as we understand it, is intended to corral large based low agility HP tanks, particularly turrets - it was to kill Fat Han.
So if anything, it should roll 4 minus agility, not just naked agility. But it's still a bad fix, either way.