5 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

you don't avoid the TL requirement with deadeye, you still NEED an action to fire it

also a 1 point and ept tax, so no ps 10 nym

kind of a massive deal

There is a big difference for Low PS ships if they need a focus or a TL to shoot their gun. Yes both need an action but if you move first you won't have a TL on the first round of engagemnet. With Focus that isn't a problem.

TL req and make Marida ability primary weapon only.

10 minutes ago, Hannes Solo said:

Didn't need to. I know this is what it takes to make me consider other turrets. Anything less won't do.

EDIT: Second attack only in arc would be good too.

And I know from extensive experience of flying with TLTs (mostly on HWKs) that it is overkill. I've already got data to prove the TLT is useful as is. You do not have data to support your claim. You can get it with testing. That's why I am challenging you to do it.

Just now, SabineKey said:

And I know from extensive experience of flying with TLTs (mostly on HWKs) that it is overkill. I've already got data to prove the TLT is useful as is. You do not have data to support your claim. You can get it with testing. That's why I am challenging you to do it.

Nobody's questioning that the TLT's useful as it is though?

6 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Nobody's questioning that the TLT's useful as it is though?

And y'all are saying that it will still be useful after the proposed nerf. I'm asking you to prove it.

Just now, SabineKey said:

And y'all are saying that it will still be useful after the proposed nerf. I'm asking you to prove it.

Yeah, like any of us could assemble enough of a data set to make that proof acceptable to you.

Has a video of this panel ever been uploaded?

10 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Yeah, like any of us could assemble enough of a data set to make that proof acceptable to you.

You're right. Conclusive proof would be hard. But even that you would be willing to put your money where your mouth is and actually play with what you support is something. And if you play for a bit with the new text and still believ it is worth 6 points, that's still data to support your theory.

Make it a 2 die attack rather than 3 and reduce its cost. That gives both 1 and 2 agility ships a chance to avoid the attack.

If you put a Blaster Turret on a HWK and add a Recon specialist to mitigate it's drawback you are at 7Points + you used the crew upgrade. How would you nerf a TLT so you would consider that combo to be interesting?

The TLT as it is is not a usefull turret it is the mary sue of turrets it is THE turret that sends all other turrets to the binder. It is not a usefull turret it is a terrible OP broken turret and I would not be content with nerfing it from broken-op to still-the-best-turret I wan't it to be nerfed until it is in line with the other turrets and that means that if you want a damage dealing turret you would look at the TLT and the Blaster turret and think about which one to take.

2 minutes ago, Hannes Solo said:

If you put a Blaster Turret on a HWK and add a Recon specialist to mitigate it's drawback you are at 7Points + you used the crew upgrade. How would you nerf a TLT so you would consider that combo to be interesting?

The TLT as it is is not a usefull turret it is the mary sue of turrets it is THE turret that sends all other turrets to the binder. It is not a usefull turret it is a terrible OP broken turret and I would not be content with nerfing it from broken-op to still-the-best-turret I wan't it to be nerfed until it is in line with the other turrets and that means that if you want a damage dealing turret you would look at the TLT and the Blaster turret and think about which one to take.

Comparing it to a Blaster turret, I wouldn't. The Blaster Turret is rubbish. Has been for a long time. The Synch Turret out classes it. Now, make the Blaster Turret not have to spend a focus token, then we have a conversation.

For me, making it unique would be enough. I's only TLT spam that is soul destroying. Oh and word it so that the ghost can't use it twice somehow

Sync turret needs a TL which is limiting. Make TLT range 1-2 and have it need TL and I am OK.

Just now, Hannes Solo said:

Sync turret needs a TL which is limiting. Make TLT range 1-2 and have it need TL and I am OK.

For a reduced price, I would find that acceptable.

Just now, SabineKey said:

For a reduced price, I would find that acceptable.

If the second Attack is arc only I am in.

4 minutes ago, madquest8 said:

For me, making it unique would be enough. I's only TLT spam that is soul destroying. Oh and word it so that the ghost can't use it twice somehow

I dunno, Miranda is pretty good at eating souls all by herself. And Nym. And Kanan with Biggs. Unique-ifying is not enough.

Just switch range bands with the blaster turret and call it a day.

1 hour ago, ficklegreendice said:

Far better to either lower the damage ceiling (one attack with Gunner effect) or add a target lock restriction or something. Stuff that's GUARANTEED to make a difference

I like both these solutions. It never ceases to amaze me how TLT made it into the game: "Lets make a turret that outclasses every other turret by a wide margin!" "Yeah, OK, lets go to lunch early! This job is EASY, yo!"

What if you leave it as is and just add this: "you cannot modify your attack dice and may not attack again this phase" (the last bit means that Ghost can get both shots off if it attacks with its primary first, but no 4 TLT shots)

21 minutes ago, Hannes Solo said:

If the second Attack is arc only I am in.

Again I think that is too far. Let's compare with the Synched Turret. The TLT already had a major advantage taken away in the form of its range increment (the primary reason I use it and old builds like the Stresshog did). So, now the synched Turret and TLT have the same range, same restrictions. Now look at damage output. The TLT can more consistently reach maximum output, but that output is hard capped. Even a HWK primary can oneshot more things than the TLT (which it can only potentially one shot a Light Syck). A Synched Turret can potentially go beyond doubling a TLTs damage output as each of its dice counts for damage and it can give crits. It can one shot a variety of ships with proper luck. Add in its rerolls in arc and you have a healthy competitor for the nerfed TLT without requiring the second shot to be in arc.

TLT is the only useful gun a HWK can take.

Release a HWK Aces pack and only then think about maybe altering TLT slightly.

40 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

You're right. Conclusive proof would be hard. But even that you would be willing to put your money where your mouth is and actually play with what you support is something. And if you play for a bit with the new text and still believ it is worth 6 points, that's still data to support your theory.

Surprisingly enough no I'm not willimg to spend significant time and effort playtesting something to maybe win an internet argument.

requiring a target lock for out of primary arc shots should do the trick. means FCS will be needed to maximise that second shot or they need to use an action to get the target lock.

TLT needs a nerf because it keeps so many ships out of the game.

BUT TLT must be nerfed alongside Bomblet Generator, Biggs, and Advanced Sensors. Preferably alongside 12 other cards. (I can list those if needed). This is because TLT is currently the best way of keeping those styles of list from running 100% rampant.

If you nerf TLT, you also need to nerf the degeneracy that TLT keeps down.

5 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Surprisingly enough no I'm not willimg to spend significant time and effort playtesting something to maybe win an internet argument.

Fair. But that makes me further doubt the validity of the purposal if the proponents of it are unwilling to support their claims.

12 minutes ago, ViscerothSWG said:

TLT is the only useful gun a HWK can take.

Release a HWK Aces pack and only then think about maybe altering TLT slightly.

Or heck, make it HWK only. I'd be satisfied with that. (No, not gonna happen, but it would solve some problems).