1 hour ago, sf1raptor said:

Well, the Chir'Daki is a bit more of a Rebel vessel.

The Chir'Daki aren't real Uglies. They were build (Most probably by a real Starship engineer) with the mindset: "Lets See. We have these parts. How can we make a workin Fighter from it?"

"Real" Uglies are build by less competent personel: "We have these parts. Lets build Something Out of it!" Follows by mindless cobbeling together scrap.

38 minutes ago, RogueLeader42 said:

The Chir'Daki aren't real Uglies. They were build (Most probably by a real Starship engineer) with the mindset: "Lets See. We have these parts. How can we make a workin Fighter from it?"

"Real" Uglies are build by less competent personel: "We have these parts. Lets build Something Out of it!" Follows by mindless cobbeling together scrap.

I see your point. Would this apply to other Ugly types, say a Y-TIE, that becomes someone's favorite ship for some reason and they take time to make it worth while? Basically, if an engineer got a hold of a Y-TIE.

On 9/18/2017 at 10:10 PM, LordBlades said:

They can be bad ships, as long as they'd costed appropriately they will be playable.

^this.

The Z-95 is a much worse X-Wing, but it's playable because they made it cheap. Uglies would also be very cheap, because they're made from scrap! It would be nice to have a ship that costs less than 12...

1 hour ago, Kieransi said:

^this.

The Z-95 is a much worse X-Wing, but it's playable because they made it cheap. Uglies would also be very cheap, because they're made from scrap! It would be nice to have a ship that costs less than 12...

NO. More than 8 ships in a 100 point squad is asking for trouble.

Z-95s were good basic ships that can be swarmed or loaded for alpha strikes or just as a blocker. They weren't 'worse x-wings' because they predates the X-wing and was the basis for later designs such as the ARC 170 and T-65, T-70 and T-85. The Headhunter deserves better than being lumped together with Uglies as the 'more expensive option.

5 hours ago, RogueLeader42 said:

The Chir'Daki aren't real Uglies. They were build (Most probably by a real Starship engineer) with the mindset: "Lets See. We have these parts. How can we make a workin Fighter from it?"

"Real" Uglies are build by less competent personel: "We have these parts. Lets build Something Out of it!" Follows by mindless cobbeling together scrap.

technically they are Uglies. Wedge even calls them that at one point. they were just built to a more standardized design than most groups making Uglies.

there are basically two forms of uglies in the star wars setting.

there are the "we have a box of scrap, lets see what we can make from it" uglies, like the Red Feathers pirate group in X-Wing: Wraith Squadron, or the corellian government used for intrigue purposes in Ambush at Selonia.

then you have uglies which appear to be made to standardized designs, just using parts from different fighters. this is the Chir'Daki, the Clutch, and the TYE-wing, which are always the same when they appear, and appear in groups. (and in the case of the TYE-wing, occur in fairly large numbers across the galaxy, in the hands of many different groups.)

the Gand Starfighter may or may not fall into the 2nd type. (if it does, it would be largely due to internal components)

I feel like Uglies could work best as very low cost Starfighters due to how inferior they are. Despite their inferiority to other fighters, the more there are focusing on one ship could overwhelm it. I'm interested to see the strategies that bunch of unglies could pull-off.

The more prominent uglies that come to mind which I would consider releasing first are the TYE-wing and Z-'ceptor, but maybe perhaps more preferably any of Terex's from the Poe Dameron comics.

2 hours ago, Vector said:

Z-'ceptor

I remember that one even making it into the 'official' book of Star Wars vehicles with a 3-up technical drawing at one point.

Weird when you think about it; interceptors were less common, so you'd think interceptor components would be much less available than standard TIEs.

The TYE-wing sort of makes sense; Y-wing engines had been around for decades in vast numbers and produced enough juice to run a heavy fighter, and TIE fighters were a dime a dozen, so it's easily understandable you might have those two bits, and swapping the 'proper' TIE panels and engines for big, chunky Y-wing engines gives you more power at a cost of more temperamental maintenance.

Sf1raptor: would you be able to post your uglies cards,etc. on this forum? I can't print because they are read only and am having problems with my computer. Also on the google doc. the wording is blurry. Thanks.

47 minutes ago, 414taylor said:

Sf1raptor: would you be able to post your uglies cards,etc. on this forum? I can't print because they are read only and am having problems with my computer. Also on the google doc. the wording is blurry. Thanks.

I honestly don't know how. Cue people who know what they're doing.

Uglies are stupid. Not only are they dumb looking, but they make no sense. They are the epitome of dumb Star Wars. Anyone who likes uglies is clueless.

Am I clear?

27 minutes ago, Lord Ashram said:

Uglies are stupid. Not only are they dumb looking, but they make no sense. They are the epitome of dumb Star Wars. Anyone who likes uglies is clueless.

Am I clear?

Am I more clueless for liking prequels ships too? Just because you like something doesn't mean you're dumb. The I see it, Uglies are like old rat rods. Starships are common place in Star Wars, so more people would know at least enough to throw together a semi-functional starship with part, like what you can do with a car.

32 minutes ago, Lord Ashram said:

Uglies are stupid. Not only are they dumb looking, but they make no sense. They are the epitome of dumb Star Wars. Anyone who likes uglies is clueless.

Am I clear?

Could you elaborate on this?

2 minutes ago, Hannes Solo said:

Could you elaborate on this?

Using parts from multiple ships to repair other ships isn’t stretching believability, but taking a TIE cockpit and throwing Y-wing engines on it doesn’t seem to be...kosher. Are there a bunch of old TIEs running around without wings? Do engines just happen to fall off Y-wings and survive the crash? There’s gotta be a reason why those specific parts are lying around.

My vetsion of Uglies would be adding X-wing guns on a TIE, or a turret from a Y-wing to a B-wing. If you had a mostly complete ship but the Engines were shot (maybe literally) then I could see replacing them with whatever, like an x-wing with B-wing engines strapped to the back or A-wing engines on an Interceptor where it’s normal engines would be.

dont just mash up parts just Willy nilly, it’s gotta make sense. It’s got to mostly be one ship or another with just a few added parts. The Falcon didn’t look like a bunch of ships cobbled together, and it had been modified and rebuilt numerous times.

1 hour ago, GrimmyV said:

Using parts from multiple ships to repair other ships isn’t stretching believability, but taking a TIE cockpit and throwing Y-wing engines on it doesn’t seem to be...kosher. Are there a bunch of old TIEs running around without wings? Do engines just happen to fall off Y-wings and survive the crash? There’s gotta be a reason why those specific parts are lying around.

Sometimes downed fighters have just one part of them damaged. Blowing of one wing from a TIE is an almost guaranteed mission kill. Ships also brake down after a while if you don't maintain them enough. One engine of your Y-Wing isn't working? Salvage the rest and see what you can make out of it.

It's comparable with how some tank versions got "developed" by the Red Army and the Wehrmacht. Panthers which received turret hits were taken to a repair sho, the turret removed and used as workshop and repair vehicle. Same goes for the T-34.

7 minutes ago, GrimmyV said:

Using parts from multiple ships to repair other ships isn’t stretching believability, but taking a TIE cockpit and throwing Y-wing engines on it doesn’t seem to be...kosher. Are there a bunch of old TIEs running around without wings? Do engines just happen to fall off Y-wings and survive the crash? There’s gotta be a reason why those specific parts are lying around.

Guess not all scrap comes from things that exploded and crashed. There might be Y-Wings rotting away in an abandoned Bunker on Hoth or your pirate friends 'found' a container full of TIE-Cockpits lying around? And when there is so much stuff flying around this moon that there might be some intact TIE-Solar Panels you could use to power the engines of these Z-Wings you do not have proper fuel for...

42 minutes ago, sf1raptor said:

Am I more clueless for liking prequels ships too? Just because you like something doesn't mean you're dumb. The I see it, Uglies are like old rat rods. Starships are common place in Star Wars, so more people would know at least enough to throw together a semi-functional starship with part, like what you can do with a car.

Slightly. And I am sort of kidding. But only sort of;)

Uglies are not just dumb looking, which they are... literally taking one piece of a design and putting it on another? Can you imagine taking the back half of the falcon and adding the front half of a star destroyer? No, it would look dumb. Well, so do uglies. Inexcusably, lack of taste dumb.

But they also make no sense.

People don't really take pieces of one car and rivet it to parts of another. People don't take the interior of a corvette and put it in a jeep. People don't take the back half of a VW Beetle and attach it to the front half of a Hummer. It's hard to even take a chevy engine and put it in a Ford, and that's just an engine, not an entire engine or cockpit with all of the ancillary bodywork and the rest. That doesn't really work, unless you are nuts and spend a TON of money, and even then they don't really function.

So no, it makes no sense at all that these poor junkers would be successfully grafting ENTIRE pieces of ships that share no commonalities at all together, and on top of that they are ugly enough to be relegated to the junk heap of dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb alt Star Wars stuff, along with a heap of other just mindless dumb Star Wars stuff.

43 minutes ago, Lord Ashram said:

Slightly. And I am sort of kidding. But only sort of;)

Uglies are not just dumb looking, which they are... literally taking one piece of a design and putting it on another? Can you imagine taking the back half of the falcon and adding the front half of a star destroyer? No, it would look dumb. Well, so do uglies. Inexcusably, lack of taste dumb.

But they also make no sense.

People don't really take pieces of one car and rivet it to parts of another. People don't take the interior of a corvette and put it in a jeep. People don't take the back half of a VW Beetle and attach it to the front half of a Hummer. It's hard to even take a chevy engine and put it in a Ford, and that's just an engine, not an entire engine or cockpit with all of the ancillary bodywork and the rest. That doesn't really work, unless you are nuts and spend a TON of money, and even then they don't really function.

So no, it makes no sense at all that these poor junkers would be successfully grafting ENTIRE pieces of ships that share no commonalities at all together, and on top of that they are ugly enough to be relegated to the junk heap of dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb alt Star Wars stuff, along with a heap of other just mindless dumb Star Wars stuff.

WW2 want to have a word with you

and don't let me start with the post war period.

1 hour ago, Lord Ashram said:

People don't really take pieces of one car and rivet it to parts of another. People don't take the interior of a corvette and put it in a jeep. People don't take the back half of a VW Beetle and attach it to the front half of a Hummer. It's hard to even take a chevy engine and put it in a Ford, and that's just an engine, not an entire engine or cockpit with all of the ancillary bodywork and the rest. That doesn't really work, unless you are nuts and spend a TON of money, and even then they don't really function.

You mean that in countries with ready access to replacement parts for wide varieties of vehicles that doesn't happen. From what I've heard from talking to missionaries to smaller, less developed countries, you get exactly that sort of thing. The engine on your car broke down and we don't have and can't easily get a matching one? Just take the engine out of this van over here and strap it into place (and remove the hood, because it couldn't close over the differently-shaped/sized engine, anyway). The door on your car was knocked off? Add this completely different-sized one, and drill a couple new holes and add some brackets so that it can still latch.

So yes, it wouldn't really make sense for the Empire, or even the Rebellion (backed by several world governments) to use uglies (at least not in large quantities). But small, privately-run companies or pirate groups without massive resources? "Take what you can get," I say!

42 minutes ago, RogueLeader42 said:

WW2 want to have a word with you

and don't let me start with the post war period.

I'm afraid I don't know those vehicles. Are they vehicles made out of parts of different vehicles from different manufacturers?

And it isn't just practical.

look at this:

Thats dumb looking. I know people may say "Oh, that's an opinion!" but come now... that's just dumb.

I think Uglies might be the absolute lowest Star Wars moment in history. Yes, even below Jar Jar.

Just now, Lord Ashram said:

And it isn't just practical.

look at this:

Thats dumb looking. I know people may say "Oh, that's an opinion!" but come now... that's just dumb.

Hm...I wonder if there's any connection between being rather dumb-looking and being called "uglies"?

Again, it's not generally about, "This ship would look awesome and/or perform splendidly!" It's about having to make do with what you have on hand or can readily salvage.

10 minutes ago, Lord Ashram said:

I'm afraid I don't know those vehicles. Are they vehicles made out of parts of different vehicles from different manufacturers?

Yes they are.
- French Renault R35 tank captured by Germany and outfitted with the turret of a russian T-26

- French armoured Lorraine tractor outfitted with a german field howitzer.

- British Matilda tank equipped with a german anti tank gun

- Russian "Odessa Tank". Improvised chassis with a T-26 turret

- Spanish MC-36 truck with russian T-26 turret

- American "Super Pershing". Basically a stock M26 Pershing up armoured with parts from a destroyed german Panther.

And as JJ48 said: There have to be ugly ships. Why should everey ship in Star Wars be visually appealling?

1 minute ago, JJ48 said:

Hm...I wonder if there's any connection between being rather dumb-looking and being called "uglies"?

Again, it's not generally about, "This ship would look awesome and/or perform splendidly!" It's about having to make do with what you have on hand or can readily salvage.

Sure, but ugly dumb and illogical and impractical and annoying, not ugly looks rough.

I have no patience for uglies. I'm sorry. I think I hate them more than anything. They are literally the result of imagination-less hangers-on who saw great Star Wars designs and needed something to sell the 107th post Star Wars book, and just cobbled together ridiculousness from good Star Wars designs. My hate for them is complete and overwhelming, and I want them to....

4 minutes ago, RogueLeader42 said:

Yes they are.
- French Renault R35 tank captured by germany and outfitted with the turret of a russian T-26

- French armoured Lorraine tractor outfitted with a german field howitzer.

- British Matilda tank equipped with a german anti tank gun

- Russian "Odessa Tank". Improvised chassis with a T-26 turret

- Spanish MC-36 truck with russian T-26 turret

- American "Super Pershing". Basically a stock M26 Pershing up armoured with parts from a destroyed german Panther.

And all look better, and likely use more common technology, than any of these ridiculous "TIE fighter with completely original x wing engines stuck on."

btw, not seeing much on these online. Are these basically one or two offs?

3 minutes ago, Lord Ashram said:

Sure, but ugly dumb and illogical and impractical and annoying, not ugly looks rough.

I have no patience for uglies. I'm sorry. I think I hate them more than anything. They are literally the result of imagination-less hangers-on who saw great Star Wars designs and needed something to sell the 107th post Star Wars book, and just cobbled together ridiculousness from good Star Wars designs. My hate for them is complete and overwhelming, and I want them to....

I'll agree that they're ugly and unwieldy, but again, that's exactly the point. There are plenty of Star Wars books I haven't read so perhaps I'm missing something, but generally, when uglies are encountered, they're in the hands of groups that wouldn't be expected to have access to a wealth of resources and have to make do with what they have. ...and it usually shows by how horribly the uglies perform compared to the standard ships.

Personally, I'd find it much less imaginative if every single pirate group encountered were equipped with impeccably maintained TIEs that they somehow acquired and keep perfectly serviced despite barely keeping their base from falling apart, but that's just me.