Uglies

By Infinite_Maelstrom, in X-Wing

Uglies are mostly just boring and uninspired. Come instead with something originally, fresh new. Mostly uglies are just copy and paste, senseless throwing together iconic parts.

And they make no sense coming in masses, like the comic above. It could be some maybe ONE to THREE single units somewhere. Which still would get annihilated almost instantly, cause even an old Z95 is performing much better than the result of an attempt to cobble together HIGHLY complicated SPACEship parts from different manufacturers which use different philosophies, technics, frames and fittings and software. -Thematically its stupid. If you have enough parts to build a fleet of uglies, you would try to do an Y-wing of all Y-wing parts. And not spread your Y-wing over 5 different scrap heaps.

Maintenance of these scrap heaps is even MORE of a nightmare, ESPECIALLY if you are short on resources. These things should roll a red die every time they do a red maneuver, probably they should roll for malfunction if throwing more than 2 red dice when attacking. And all damage to them is face-up.

If you have so many parts to do a fleet, sell them off as spares, and buy some real fighters for the money. Jakku is not that far off, that they could not sell parts and buy decommisioned fighters instead. I mean Plutt got 2 Quadjumpers to Jakku (yes, right, you can see 2 in the film).

Btw, if you are so short on resources, you are even short on pilots....would you really throw lots of them onto scrap-heaps which disintegrate upon return to the atmosphere?

-Gamewise it's stupid. What role would uglies fill?

Cheaper than 12 pts, 1-2 attack dice? Thats not viable, neither practical. Even if you go for pure casual you still have the problem that having so many cheap worthless units on the board only leads to BUMPERwing and really DRAGS out gameplay when you have to move that many units. A bit like Goblins or Skaven floods of models.

And you are not really saying that these scrap heaps should be better than any of the already existing ship in the game, or are you? Having more random power and attack value output could be a thing, but like e.g. the GW Chaos Dwarf units so much random variance (between the extremes of explode yourself or suddenly being better than units your opponent paid dearly for in points) is purely beer and pretzels. And FFG hopefully will not water down faction identity by producing these abominations.

/rant off :)

15 minutes ago, Managarmr said:

Come instead with something originally, fresh new.

Something like the TIE/fo, TIE/sf, First Order Bomber or T-70 X-Wing you mean?

1 hour ago, LordBlades said:

Something like the TIE/fo, TIE/sf, First Order Bomber or T-70 X-Wing you mean?

Thinking more like the Aggressor and Punisher.

8 hours ago, Managarmr said:

Uglies are mostly just boring and uninspired. Come instead with something originally, fresh new. Mostly uglies are just copy and paste, senseless throwing together iconic parts.

And they make no sense coming in masses, like the comic above. It could be some maybe ONE to THREE single units somewhere. Which still would get annihilated almost instantly, cause even an old Z95 is performing much better than the result of an attempt to cobble together HIGHLY complicated SPACEship parts from different manufacturers which use different philosophies, technics, frames and fittings and software. -Thematically its stupid. If you have enough parts to build a fleet of uglies, you would try to do an Y-wing of all Y-wing parts. And not spread your Y-wing over 5 different scrap heaps.

Maintenance of these scrap heaps is even MORE of a nightmare, ESPECIALLY if you are short on resources. These things should roll a red die every time they do a red maneuver, probably they should roll for malfunction if throwing more than 2 red dice when attacking. And all damage to them is face-up.

If you have so many parts to do a fleet, sell them off as spares, and buy some real fighters for the money. Jakku is not that far off, that they could not sell parts and buy decommisioned fighters instead. I mean Plutt got 2 Quadjumpers to Jakku (yes, right, you can see 2 in the film).

Btw, if you are so short on resources, you are even short on pilots....would you really throw lots of them onto scrap-heaps which disintegrate upon return to the atmosphere?

-Gamewise it's stupid. What role would uglies fill?

Cheaper than 12 pts, 1-2 attack dice? Thats not viable, neither practical. Even if you go for pure casual you still have the problem that having so many cheap worthless units on the board only leads to BUMPERwing and really DRAGS out gameplay when you have to move that many units. A bit like Goblins or Skaven floods of models.

And you are not really saying that these scrap heaps should be better than any of the already existing ship in the game, or are you? Having more random power and attack value output could be a thing, but like e.g. the GW Chaos Dwarf units so much random variance (between the extremes of explode yourself or suddenly being better than units your opponent paid dearly for in points) is purely beer and pretzels. And FFG hopefully will not water down faction identity by producing these abominations.

/rant off :)

I always thought of it as a "we can't find the parts to make a full 'insert fighter here' but I have parts to work with."

Also, I could see some mods Uglies make as a good idea. Like the Y-TIEs ion cannons in the turret being replaced by a TIE's Ls-1 laser cannons. This sort of thing could make it on a merc's Y-Wing.

Considering how many SW ships that get a pass that are derivatives of existing ships it’s a wonder why Uglies have to be a thing. Like this:

Start with a Y-wing, change out the engines for x-wing-ish engines, put some swing wings on it and you’ve got a U-wing!

of shrink a Nebulon B, Put a bunch of K-wing ball turrets on it and the Falcon’s cockpit and you got a Resistence Bomber!

take some left over TIE Interceptor wings and stick em on a Falcon cockpit (again) and it’s TIE Fandom...er, Phantom.

take a TIE Fighter, put the wings of a Bomber/Advanced on it, swing them 180 degrees and make them pointy and evil! Now you have everyone’s favorite ‘give it a pass’ Interceptor!

see, no need to resort to ugly Uglies when Lucasfilm has shown us the true way to make ‘new’ ships.

A few months late to the conversation, but I've theorycrafted how to make Uglies worthwhile (assuming you aren't 100% opposed to their existance to begin with). The Freemaker Adventures are 'canon paraphrase', making it canon 'from a certain point of view', and follows a group of scavengers gathering Rebel/Imperial wrecks and remaking them into functional ships. Rebel/Imperial wrecks, which most relevant Uglies are made out of.

I think the best way to introduce Uglies is as a part of a big CT-900 StarScavenger expansion, where they should be able to afford the cost of interchangeable parts. The construct-your-own style of Uglies would also be the best flavor possible for any ship connected to the Freemaker Adventures, and anything LEGO in general. The semi-cartoonish nature inherent to some of the uglies (the AT-ST uglies especially) also goes hand in hand with it. Plus it'd be fun to see the StarScavenger and cast de-LEGO-ified, and would provide a Battle Droid crew for PT fans.

My theorycrafting is a bit long, I apologize in advance for it.

[MINIATURE PARTS]

2 TIE/ln wings
2 TIE/IN wings
2 X-Wing wings
2 Z-95 wings
2 Y-Wing wings
2 Z'ceptor Wings
1 TIE body
1 Y-Wing body
1 X-Wing/Z-95 body
1 Z'ceptor body
1 AT-ST head (used as ship body)
Up to 5 small bases + pegs

- Besides the Z'ceptor parts and the AT-ST head, all the parts already exist. If packaged together it'd be everything you could ever want for Uglies (minus the Deathraven), including the parts needed for DIETYE-Wings and Death Seeds/Chir'dakis. (Alternatively, it that'd be too much, some of the parts could be saved for a Z'ceptor or other sort of expansion)

[BASE STATS]

2 Attack
2 Agility
3 Hull
0 Shields
Actions: Focus

- At 12 points with 2/2/3/0 and no actions outside of Focus, the Ugly would be vastly outclassed by every other 12 point cost ship. Though its stats are ideal for a completely vanilla trash-tier Ugly, it'd need something big to keep it from being completely unplayable.

[MOVEMENT]

4 - Straight, K-Turn
3 - Straight, Bank, Turn (Red)
2 - Straight (Green), Bank (Green), Turn
1 - Straight (Green), Bank, Turn (Red)

- Basically took a Z-95, adjusted the K-Turn from 3 to 4 to avoid a potential green K-Turn, gave it red 3 Turns to match the Y-Wing and reflect the inferiority of the Ugly, then added the ref 1 Turns to reflect some Uglies being partially made of salvaged Frankenstein'd TIEs.

[PILOTS]

Rebel/Scum Ugly PS1 2/2/3/0 - 12 pt / Focus
Rebel/Scum Ugly PS5 2/2/3/0 - 15 pt / EPT + Focus (cost based on PS5 Kaa'to Leeachos)

- Incomplete list, I used the Z-95 for the cost for the cheapest generic and cheapest EPT pilots available for the Ugly to use for theorycrafting EPT and non-EPT Uglies. Pilots for Uglies like Tal'dira or Zander would ideally be included, but I wanted to focus on the raw stats of the Uglies without focusing on specific Pilots or custom Pilot abilities. Should be Rebel/Scum cross faction.

[TITLE]

Z-Wing - 0 pt
(Ugly Only)

The squad point cost of each of your equipped upgrades is reduced by 1 (to a minimum of 0). You may equip up to 4 Modification upgrades.

- How I'd make the Ugly playable. Unless FFG changes things up, going below 12 point cost is a no-go, so I compensated by implementing a Freemaker flavored Vaksai upgrade to help it catch up with the other 12 point ships. I started it as a direct clone, but later increased the total Modification upgrades from 3 to 4 as 3 simply wasn't quite enough to work with when starting from a blank slate.

[MODIFICATION UPGRADES]

Unstable Shield Generator - 2 pt

Increase your shield value by 1. After any ship executes a maneuver, if you are touching that ship, remove 1 shield token from your ship.


Scavenged Thrusters - 3 pt
(Ugly Only) (Limited)

Agility increased by 1.


2-seat Cockpit - 4 pt
(Ugly Only) (Limited)

Your Upgrade bar gains the Crew upgrade icon.


Oversized Engine - 2 pt
(Ugly Only)

Your action bar gains the Boost action icon. After you perform a Boost action, receive 1 stress token.


*Astromech Socket - 2 pt
(Ugly Only) (Rebel Only)

Your Upgrade bar gains the Astromech upgrade icon.


*Salvaged Astromech Socket - 2 pt
(Ugly Only) (Scum Only)

Your Upgrade bar gains the Salvaged Astromech upgrade icon.


Ordnance Pods - 2 pt
(Ugly Only) (Limited)

Your Upgrade bar gains the Torpedo and Missile upgrade icons.

- Modifications I designed to turn the blank slate Ugly into something resembling a flyable ship. They all take the Z-Wing title into account.
* Unstable Shield Generator gives a little bit of extra health for 1 point cost, making it roughly the equivalent of a naked Z-95, and can be combined with Pulsed Ray Shield and/or regen Astromechs. I left it generic as I doubt a 2 pt Shield Token with the drawback I gave it will be very appealing to most ships when there are much better Modifications upgrades already, but it'd be nice to have a cheaper Shield Upgrade if you really had to have it. The way I've written it, it stacks too. If you have 3 Unstable Shield Generators and bump/cause a bump, you'd lose 3 shields.
* Scavenged Thrusters gives an additional Agility die, making it roughly the equivalent of a naked TIE Fighter for 2 more points. Combos nicely with Proton Rockets.
* 2-seat Cockpit at 3 point cost ensures the Ugly is never a more efficient crew carrier than Sabine's TIE Fighter with Title, and only 1 point cheaper than the Quadjumper as a crew carrier while being weaker, lacking Tech/Illicit/Bomb slots and reverse maneuvers. Combined with Sabine or Cad Bane, you can also turn the Ugly into a cheap bomber.
* Oversized Engine is a cheap way to get Boost for Autothrusters, while also having a drawback that should keep it from being too useful. Besides, I don't think you'd want to sink too many points into this kind of ship.
* Faction Astromech Sockets I'm not 100% I've considered all possibilities and accidentally gave it something broken, but from what I've figured so far they seem perfectly fine, especially after making them "named" so cheap Ugly+Astromech spam is never a concern. After Z-Wing title and Socket costs, Astromechs cost the same as they would on any other ship while being on a 3 Hull deathtrap (with optional shields).
* Ordnance Pods gets you Missiles and Torpedoes for 1 point. For 1 more point, you can put Extra Munitions in the Torpedo slot for 2 missiles. Note that unless you have Proton Rockets or Deadeye, you need to either add Targeting Computer or find another way to give the Ugly Target Locks.

[COMPARISONS WITH EXISTING SHIPS]

Naked Ugly vs. Naked Z-95
Ugly PS1 2/2/3/0 - 12 pt / Focus
Z-95 PS2 2/2/2/2 - 12 pt / Focus + Target Lock + Missile

Wannabe Z-95 Ugly vs. Naked Z-95
Ugly PS1 2/2/3/1 - 14 pt / Focus + Target Lock /w: Z-Wing + Unstable Shield Generator + Targeting Computer
Z-95 PS2 2/2/2/2 - 12 pt / Focus + Target Lock + Missile

Wannabe TIE/fo Ugly vs. Naked TIE/fo
Ugly PS1 2/3/3/1 - 17 pt / Focus + Target Lock + Barrel Roll /w: Z-Wing + Unstable Shield Generator + Scavenged Thrusters + Vectored Thrusters + Targeting Computer
TIE/fo PS1 2/3/3/1 - 15 pt / Focus + Evade + Target Lock + Barrel Roll + Tech

Wannabe A-Wing Ugly vs. Chardaan Refit A-Wing
Ugly PS1 2/3/3/1 - 18 pt / Focus + Target Lock + Barrel Roll /w: Z-Wing + Unstable Shield Generator + Scavenged Thrusters + Vectored Thrusters + Targeting Computer
Ugly PS1 2/3/3/1 - 18 pt / Focus + Barrel Roll + Boost /w: Z-Wing + Unstable Shield Generator + Oversized Engine + Vectored Thrusters + Scavenged Thrusters
A-Wing PS2 2/3/2/2 - 15 pt / Focus + Target Lock + Barrel Roll + Boost + Missile /w: Chardaan Refit

Wannabe Sabine Masterpiece TIE Ugly vs. Sabine Masterpiece TIE
Ugly PS1 2/3/3/0 - 16 pt / Focus + Crew /w: Z-Wing + Scavenged Thrusters + 2-seat Cockpit
Ugly PS1 2/3/3/0 - 17 pt / Focus + Barrel Roll + Crew /w: Z-Wing + Scavenged Thrusters + Vectored Thrusters + 2-seat Cockpit
TIE/ln PS3 2/3/3/0 - 14 pt / Focus + Evade + Barrel Roll + Crew + Illicit/w: Sabine's Masterpiece

Wannabe Quadjumper Ugly vs. Naked Quadjumper
Ugly PS1 2/2/3/0 - 15 pt / Focus + Crew /w: Z-Wing + 2-seat Cockpit
Ugly PS1 2/2/3/1 - 16 pt / Focus + Barrel Roll + Crew /w: Z-Wing + Vectored Thrusters + 2-seat Cockpit + Unstable Shield Generator
Quad PS1 2/2/4/0 - 15 pt / Focus + Barrel Roll + Crew + Illicit + Tech

Harpoon Ugly vs. Harpoon Z-95
Ugly PS1 2/2/3/0 - 17 pt / Focus + Target Lock + Missile + Torpedo /w: Z-Wing + Ordnance Pods + Targeting Computer + Guidance Chips/Munitions Failsafe + Harpoon Missiles
Ugly PS1 2/2/3/0 - 18 pt / Focus + Target Lock + Missile + Torpedo /w: Z-Wing + Ordnance Pods + Targeting Computer + Guidance Chips/Munitions Failsafe + Harpoon Missiles + Extra Munitions
Z-95 PS2 2/2/2/2 - 16 pt / Focus + Target Lock + Missile /w: Harpoon Missiles + Guidance Chips

- I did a few experiments on trying to recreate existing ships with my basic Pilots+Title+Modifications, and usually the Ugly came up short in some way in nearly every instance when trying to directly copy an existing ship as a modular do-it-yourself ship should. As I've designed it, it should either be used as a poor man's replacement for a cheap ship in casual play, or be tailored to fill a specific niche rather than outcompeting an existing ship.

[SOME THEORYCRAFTED EXAMPLES]

Super Focused
Ugly PS1 2/2/3/0 - 13 pt / Focus + Salvaged Astromech /w: Z-Wing + Salvaged Astromech Socket + Overclocked R4
- Basically a Scum-only slightly weaker shieldless Z-95 lacking Target Lock that can effectively have 2 Focus tokens per turn (assuming it always takes green maneuvers).

Ray Shield Regen
Ugly PS1 2/2/3/1 - 14 pt / Focus /w: Z-Wing + Unstable Shield Generator + Pulsed Ray Shield
- Cheapest regen ship ever.

Chopper Regen
Ugly PS1 2/2/3/1 - 14 pt / Focus + Astromech /w: Z-Wing + Unstable Shield Generator + Guidance Chips + Munitions Failsafe + Astromech Socket + Chopper
- Rebel only build for a cheap regen Ugly that doesn't ionize itself. Between the title (going by Boba Fett FAQ, upgrades that only affect upgrades slots/squad points have no effect after the game starts and can be thrown out without any detrimental effect), useless free munition cards, and Astromech Socket, Chopper can give the Ugly 4 regens before becoming useless, though I'd be surprised if it lasted long enough to use it all up. Replacing one of the free munition upgrades with Scavenged Thrusters or another Unstable Shield Generator could make it breathe a little more easily and can still be tossed out in a pinch by Chopper after 3 regens.

Budget Stress Bot
Ugly PS1 2/2/3/0 - 14 pt / Focus + Astromech /w: Z-Wing + Astromech Socket + R3-A2
- Good way to make your opponent blow your Ugly out of the sky first. Adding Scavenged Thrusters would be recommended if there's points to spare.

Cheap Scum Crew
Ugly PS1 2/2/3/0 - 15+ pt / Focus + Crew /w: Z-Wing + 2-seat Cockpit + Crew of Choice
- After Z-Wing cost reduction, a Crew carrier that's slightly cheaper than a Quadjumper for Scum with 1 less Hull and very different upgrade options.

M9-G8 Support
Ugly PS1 2/2/3/0 - 16 pt / Focus + Target Lock + Astromech /w: Z-Wing + Targeting Computer + Astromech Socket + M9-G8
- Cheapest M9-G8 there is. Probably would want to also put Scavenged Thrusters on it if you didn't plan on having it avoid combat.

Max Avoidance
Ugly PS1 2/3(4)/3/0 - 18 pt / Focus /w: Z-Wing + Oversized Engine + Autothruster + Stealth Device + Scavenged Thrusters
- Maximum possible dodging it can have.

x2 Attack Proton Rocket
Ugly PS1 2/3/3/0 - 18 pt / Focus + Missile + Torpedo /w: Z-Wing + Ordnance Pods + Scavenged Thrusters + Guidance Chip + Munitions Failsafe + Proton Rockets + Extra Munitions
- 5 Attack Dice Proton Rockets that can be used twice, pretty powerful as long as it can get into range 1 and doesn't get shot down quick. Scum can replace Munitions Failsafe or Guidance Chip with Salvaged Astromech Socket + Overclocked R4 to be able to spend a Focus on defense, get its Focus back and still fire Proton Rockets.

Tank
Ugly PS5 2/3/3/3 - 20 pt / EPT + Focus /w: Z-Wing + 0-1 cost EPT + Scavenged Thrusters + Unstable Shield Generator (x3)
- Pretty tough as long as you don't bump into anything/get bumped into. You could field 5 of these with free 1-cost EPTS for Crack Shots, Veteran Instincts or Fearlessness (Scum). Alternatively you could drop EPT/PS5 to get 4 PS1 2/3/3/3 Uglies + 2 PS1 2/3/3/2 Uglies.

Deadeye x2 Harpoon
Ugly PS5 2/2/3/0 - 20 pt / EPT + Focus + Missile + Torpedo /w: Z-Wing + Deadeye + Ordnance Pods + Guidance Chips + Harpoon Missiles + Extra Munitions
- Compared to an equivalent Z-95, trades 1 Hull for 1 extra Harpoon, but I feel like it's pretty expensive for a PS5 3 Hull ship. Probably worth eating the 2 point cost and putting Scavenged Thrusters on it for more survivability.

M9-G8 Harpoons
Ugly PS1 2/2/3/0 - 21 pt / Focus + Target Lock + Astromech + Missile + Torpedo /w: Z-Wing + Targeting Computer + Ordnance Pods + Long-Range Scanners + Astromech Socket + M9-G8 + Harpoon Missiles + Extra Munitions
- Lock onto a target, reroll one of their Attack die to prevent them from modifying that die while waiting for your turn to attack (TLT ships are best targets!), then unload Harpoons if the Ugly isn't dead. Pricey for something so frail (especially since there's no room for Scavenged Thrusters) but seems fun.

Edited by Enigami

On 20-9-2017 at 8:56 AM, Vector said:

I'm all for uglies to appear in X-Wing from both Legends and Canon.

I especially want to see the AT-AT S-foil Interceptor that Terex flew in Poe Dameron 8, however because Terex hadn't joined the First Order yet and had just defected from the Empire, would you have it as an Empire, Scum or First Order ship?

images.jpg.2a11b62c216dfb74a5ff9e00803bf

I would go with Scum since he isnt FO yet, and the Empire doesnt exist anymore... also this is THE kind of ship you'd expect with scum... or at least i would.

Edited by Wookiee_Slayer

@Enigami TL;DR?

I can see it now, all of wave 15 are uglies.

Please no.

tl;dr, naked Uglies get to be the worst ship (2/2/3/0 with only Focus) in the game to satisfy those that don't want it out performing other ships that in lore should be completely superior to Uglies, while titled "Z-Wing" Uglies get to use existing+custom Modification upgrades at a discount (Vaksai-style). As written, every instance I tried to straight up copy an existing ship with my "Z-Wing" Ugly resulted in a slightly inferior or expensive ship. You'd have to make an Ugly that fills an unoccupied niche instead of making an existing ship obsolete. A few niches I found it it fills is good synergy with Proton Rockets, cheap Extra Munitions, cheap customizable Astromech/Crew ships, and a cheap ordnance + Long-Range Sensors combo.

I figure it works best as a big 'StarScavenger' (Freemaker Adventures) expansion as opposed to a stand-alone expansion, as the make-your-own Uglies works perfectly with it. Between customizable miniatures and upgrade cards to super customize them, it'd be as close to 'LEGO' as an X-Wing ship can get without making them actually LEGOs, plus there's the whole main characters collecting Rebel/Imperial salvage with their ship and making Uglies with them thing.

1 hour ago, sf1raptor said:

I did create this, plus my Y-TIE: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UJWbrTFCI_0jFX0AfL8-DzeJNNG-R3gHuwS3estTZqA/mobilebasic

(And yes, it’s a Rebel ship. Sue me for being legends canon accurate.)

"Tal'dire"? I thought it was Tal'dira? Looks pretty good though. Chir'dakis being Rebel only is completely fine, only problem is with my idea there'd be nothing stopping you from making a Scum Chir'daki. Optionally there could also be a Rebel-only Chir'daki title that trades Z-Wing flexibility for a more standard ship like what you've made, so a Scum "Chir'daki" would always be inferior to the properly made thing.

16 minutes ago, Boba Rick said:

I can see it now, all of wave 15 are uglies.

Please no.

My concept is a one and done expansion deal including almost every notable Ugly configuration and would be packaged with a non-Ugly (CT-900), would you have a problem with that? Pretty much ensures Uglies taking over a wave would never be a concern after that, unless they leave out parts or really really want to make the Deathraven.

Edited by Enigami

Alternatively, there are a bunch of Uglies on Shapeways.