My friend and I were talking about silly lists and stumbled upon one that might actually be somewhat effective in a real game.

• "Death by a Thousand Cuts" (388 Points)
  • Raider I-class Corvette w/Darth Vader (44 w/36)
  • Gozanti-class Assault Carrier (28)
  • Gozanti-class Assault Carrier (28)
  • Gozanti-class Assault Carrier (28)
  • Gozanti-class Assault Carrier (28)
  • Gozanti-class Assault Carrier (28)
  • Gozanti-class Assault Carrier (28)
  • Gozanti-class Assault Carrier (28)
  • Gozanti-class Assault Carrier (28)
  • Gozanti-class Assault Carrier (28)
  • Gozanti-class Assault Carrier (28)
  • Gozanti-class Assault Carrier (28)
  • Fleet Ambush, Opening Salvo, Solar Corona

First off, the Raider is a 44 point life boat whose job is to fly fast to the emptiest, safest part of the board. Losing Vader hurts too much. If I wasn't worried about losing Vader, I'd probably have dropped a Gozanti and upgraded to a Glad or Arq.

The idea is to just do massed amounts of small, but reliable damage. With a Concentrated Fire dial and Vader's effect, each of the 11 Gozantis rolls 2 re-rollable red dice at long range. Statistically, that's 2 damage per attack. Pick the meanest looking target and focus your attacks on that target. The target's defense tokens won't mean much. Unless you roll 4 damage on the 2 red, a Brace is only saving 1 damage. Redirects still work, but will be redirecting only 2 damage, on average. Contain doesn't help against amount of damage, which is what we're aiming for. Evade is sort of the same as Brace. If you evade one of two dice, any remaining Brace tokens are probably useless on the other die ("I'll brace the 1 down to 1").

At long range and with Vader, it's very likely that you'll roll 2 damage on 2 red dice. Versus an ISD, you'll get the below as Gozantis fire. Massed Assault Carriers come super close to killing an ISD, on average - assuming they all get to fire. With slightly better than average rolling (1 extra damage across 22 dice), they WILL kill an ISD. That ISD will probably not kill even 1 Gozanti back at long range between the Evade and Scatter tokens. If it does kill a Gozanti, the player gets a measly 28 points and you lose 2 red dice going forward. Such is life. This isn't a list that aims for a 400-0 win.

1. 2 damage, brace to 1, redirect to side A
2. 2 damage, burn brace token to brace to 1, burn redirect token to redirect to side B
3. 2 damage, redirect to side A
4. 2 damage, burn redirect token to redirect to side B
5. 2 damage, take it on the front (2 shields left)
6. 2 damage, take it on the front (0 shields left)
7. 2 damage, take it on the front (9 hull left)
8. 2 damage, take it on the front (7 hull left)
9. 2 damage, take it on the front (5 hull left)
10. 2 damage, take it on the front (3 hull left)
11. 2 damage, take it on the front (1 hull left)

Speaking of an ISD... yeah, they're intimidating, but at best, a large ship with amazing shooting is killing 1 (maybe 2) Gozantis a turn. At long range, big ships can't reliably kill a flotilla. Red dice just don't roll enough accuracies. When they do, they're rolling less damage. 4 red dice at long range need either 2 accuracies and 4 damage (1/4096 chance) or 1 accuracy and 6 damage (1/4096 chance). An ISD has a 1/2048 chance, or a 0.05% chance of killing a Gozanti at long range. Now, that number obviously goes up dramatically at short or medium range, but my point is that Assault Gozantis overwhelmingly win the long range game when you have so many Gozantis. Once you hit medium range, the Gozantis go down quicker, but also get a second attack with a blue die. That's a 75% chance for an extra damage that has to be token'd away or taken.

There is a 12 point bid to hope for second player. Opening Salvo is probably pretty self explanatory. Adding in 2 black dice to the first shot of each Gozanti ups the average damage from 2 to 4-5. No sane person gives this list Opening Salvo. Solar Corona gives me deployment advantage and helps to eliminate those Scatter killing accuracies from my opponent's shots. I'm not sure about Fleet Ambush, but felt like it would force the opponent to split his fleet and let me shoot at the 'sacrificial' ships before the others come in to shoot back. I'm not a huge fan of any of the yellow objectives for this list.

Squadrons... I'm actually not sure how this list does against squadrons. The Gozantis fire a blue die against squadrons... and there are a lot of Gozantis. Flying them in fairly close formation means any squadrons close enough to attack will probably be eating 3-4 blue dice of flak per turn. This flak doesn't take away from the Gozantis front arc shooting either. Plus, I'd just eat the first 3 points of damage and then use and burn the Scatter token on the next 2. That means it would take 6 points of damage from average squadrons to kill a Gozanti. That will absolutely happen, but it'll take time and a full turn to do so.

By no means a take all comers list and I'm not expecting to see massed Gozantis with no upgrade cards in the entire fleet dominating the meta anytime soon, but what do you think? Is this viable? I can see it being extraordinarily frustrating to play against. I'm looking for genuine feedback. The plan is to tweak the idea this week and then try it against my buddy this weekend. He's a solid player (multiple store championships plus highly placed at both the NA and National Championships this year), so I think it'll be a good test.

Thoughts?!?!

I don't think its viable. The problem is this - once the shot from Gozanti is obstructed, it can't shoot and it would be impossible to fly them all and to have unobstructed shots from more than 3-5 at a time ( I don't even mention a possibility of encountering Cracken or Montferrat).

The mere existence of Cracken makes this list a no-go.

3 minutes ago, PT106 said:

I don't think its viable. The problem is this - once the shot from Gozanti is obstructed, it can't shoot and it would be impossible to fly them all and to have unobstructed shots from more than 3-5 at a time ( I don't even mention a possibility of encountering Cracken or Montferrat).

You'd be surprised. Don't fly them in a ball. Fly them in a long row, curving in towards the center/one side as needed. Also, Montferrat is potentially easy to get rid of if I gum up the battlefield and force a ram. Hard, but very possible. Cracken could be an issue.

2 minutes ago, KrisWall said:

You'd be surprised. Don't fly them in a ball. Fly them in a long row, curving in towards the center/one side as needed. Also, Montferrat is potentially easy to get rid of if I gum up the battlefield and force a ram. Hard, but very possible. Cracken could be an issue.

One word - asteroids. A good player should be able to use them as an advantage to deny you those shots. (And I did fly 2 Assualt Gozantis with Vader in one of my lists so I'm aware of their strengths and limitations).

2 minutes ago, Green Knight said:

The mere existence of Cracken makes this list a no-go.

Agreed... versus Cracken lists. I can't remember the last time I played against a Cracken list. Even as the second player, it might be possible to take your time, run away consistently and still win by default with a 6-5 if none of my Gozantis die. The game would definitely go to time if I take my time and debate on where to move all 12 of my ships. Tough... maybe too tough, but theoretically possible. The Cracken player gets a 6-5 for killing 1-2 Gozantis. They get a 7-4 for killing 3-4 Gozantis. They might win, but it'll be a garbage win and drops them down the event standings.

2 minutes ago, PT106 said:

One word - asteroids. A good player should be able to use them as an advantage to deny you those shots. (And I did fly 2 Assualt Gozantis with Vader in one of my lists so I'm aware of their strengths and limitations).

I considered this. I agree that a savvy player will block some of the shots with intervening obstacles, but they're not blocking all 11. Also, if they pick Solar Corona, they're probably not blocking many at all.

Just now, KrisWall said:

I considered this. I agree that a savvy player will block some of the shots with intervening obstacles, but they're not blocking all 11. Also, if they pick Solar Corona, they're probably not blocking many at all.

Did you actually try to navigate this list to lets say round 3? I'm genuinely curious as I think it'll be next to impossible to keep all 11 in formation and in arc (I didn't try it though).

5 minutes ago, KrisWall said:

Agreed... versus Cracken lists. I can't remember the last time I played against a Cracken list. Even as the second player, it might be possible to take your time, run away consistently and still win by default with a 6-5 if none of my Gozantis die. The game would definitely go to time if I take my time and debate on where to move all 12 of my ships. Tough... maybe too tough, but theoretically possible. The Cracken player gets a 6-5 for killing 1-2 Gozantis. They get a 7-4 for killing 3-4 Gozantis. They might win, but it'll be a garbage win and drops them down the event standings.

I expect you to lose at least 8-3. Cracken players usually bring a strong set of rogues, so they'll be able to eat a Gozanti per round with squadrons alone.

I'll be trying the list out this weekend. I haven't actually tried it yet. It's still a thought exercise.

As stated before the fleet is hard countered by good asteroid positioning and Cracken (while he is a rare commander choice) but I like the idea behind the list a lot! You can do something similiar with the rebels faction and just spam hammerheads (no upgrades). You can fit 10 torpedo hammerheads + commander or 9 scout hammerheads + commander in your fleet. (if you go for the scout version then you can always fire out your front arch (obstructed or not) and you have the added benefit of being able to mass ram your opponent's fleet.

I think Tagge would be a better commander for this fleet. An oddball commander and an odd fleet!

Not the first time something like this came up:

vader-13-gozantis
And here again a few month later

There was as well the idea to use Screed instead of Vader. With Concentrate Fire you will have one crit for sure with each attack.

But as said, it is not stabile enough. And One single card can kill the whole list (Cracken and Montferrat). There is no doubt that it "might" work. But a 100% counter card make this list a no go (for tournaments).

The second problem is the flying. You can end up in a cluster mess really fast, and start to ram your own Gozanti over and over.

4 minutes ago, anonymousguy said:

I think Tagge would be a better commander for this fleet. An oddball commander and an odd fleet!

I considered Tagge actually. Vader seems better due to the re-rolls. Tagge would definitely help out with recouping those Scatters, though. I considered two waves of 5 Gozantis with Tagge. The back 5 would have Comms Net and would feed CF tokens forward to go with a CF dial. Then, you're re-rolling one and not two, which is probably ok for red dice.

That would become...

• Raider I-class Corvetter w/General Tagge
• Gozanti-class Assault Carrier w/Comms Net
• Gozanti-class Assault Carrier w/Comms Net
• Gozanti-class Assault Carrier w/Comms Net
• Gozanti-class Assault Carrier w/Comms Net
• Gozanti-class Assault Carrier w/Comms Net
• Gozanti-class Assault Carrier
• Gozanti-class Assault Carrier
• Gozanti-class Assault Carrier
• Gozanti-class Assault Carrier
• Gozanti-class Assault Carrier
• Gozanti-class Assault Carrier
• 387 points

Same objectives as above. Feed CF tokens forward with the back row and then activate the front row, rolling two red and re-rolling one. Reclaim spent Scatter tokens at the start of the 3rd and 5th rounds. Doing so will probably keep several Gozantis alive throughout the course of the game.

2 minutes ago, Tokra said:

Not the first time something like this came up:

vader-13-gozantis

There was as well the idea to use Screed instead of Vader. With Concentrate Fire you will have one crit for sure with each attack.

But as said, it is not stabile enough. And One single card can kill the whole list (Cracken and Montferrat). There is no doubt that it "might" work. But a 100% counter card make this list a no go (for tournaments).

The second problem is the flying. You can end up in a cluster mess really fast, and start to ram your own Gozanti over and over.

The ramming issue is a player skill issue and can be mitigated with more practiced flying. Montferrat can be mitigated by forcing a ram. Cracken can be mitigated by refusing to engage and slow playing. It's a d-bag move, but it's literally the only strategy you have.

Having said that... Cracken is rarely seen these days, so it's very likely you'd go to a tournament and play versus ZERO Cracken lists. Same with Montferrat. If you play versus a Montferrat player, target everyone else and then run. Either that, or try to force a ram and then start firing. Trying to force a ram with umpteen flotillas versus one speed 3 ship should be pretty easy.

In other words, it's theoretically a no go with a hard counter list. In practice, you'll rarely if ever play against that hard counter list in today's meta.

The second problem that you will have are squadrons. A heavy squadron list will dismantle these Gozanti one by one. not all, for sure not. But you will not kill so many of them as well.

And i flew MSU swarms for a while. And i have even tested out the 13 Gozanti with Screed. The maneuvering is a problem. It was already a pain with 7-8 when i tried to keep them in range and formation. But with 12-13 it is (and will be) a really mess .

Yes, this list will work. And it will be fun. But it will not be constant or effective enough for tournament level. But for fun games for sure.

You wouldn't fly the 11 Gozantis in formation. You'd separate them and fly them in packs of 2 and 3. Maneuvering 3 together while ensuring all 3 have a shot is relatively easy. Maneuvering 11 together would obviously be a total nightmare.

Just to get it out there, Tokra won the German nationals flying a Gozanti + squadrons swarm. He knows what he's talking about.

Let us know how it works out KrisWall!

5 hours ago, Maturin said:

Just to get it out there, Tokra won the German nationals flying a Gozanti + squadrons swarm. He knows what he's talking about.

You said everything with "+ squadrons", which totally changes that list, making it much more impactful imo.

I don't know what would impress me the most. The fact of facing 11 flotillas, or the fact that you own 11 flotillas

Good luck with the list anyway, and looking forward for the BR

I would love to see the BR for this. Sounds super fun if nothing else.