Hi, i have a question, what is your opinion about this situation:

I and my friends have been playing in TI3 with both expansions, and there was a wierd situation:

It was a 5 round,

player1 have 5 points to end game, and secret still non complete
player2 have 6 points to end game
one of the Objectives is "I control 11 planet outside HS"

player2 (is neightbour of player1) is looking into planets of player1, but he have a mess and he is unable to count player`'s1 planets. Player2 ask questions "how many planets outside HS do you have now, please tell me the truth because I can```t't count it you have mixed it with rafinery, tech and I cant do this on my own".
Player1 said: Now I have 9
Player2 is doing some move for himself, non important in that case

Player1 take control on next 2 planets (so he have 11)
Player2 skipped his move by action card.
Player1 said pass
Player2 take one planet from player1 (and he have 10 planets)

Everybody pass, status phase start, and Player1 is claiming objective with 11 planets.

My question - can Player1 do that? Is this ok?

In the status phase the condition "I control 11 planet outside HS" must be true for the player who claim it. If P1 HAD 11 planets is not relevant. P1 must control at list 11 planets outside his HS in the very moment P1 claim that objective.

propably You don`t understand me.

Player1 Had 11 plantes outsite HS in Status Phase, but he lied to Player2 about it when Player2 ask about number. Player2 had multiple possibilities to make his move to take planets from player1 but he didn`t have to after asking.

Can player lie about his influense, resourses, trade goods and planets amount?

Yes, I misunderstood.
I don't remember if there is any rule about that. Anyway I think that every player should pay attention to what others are doing. Maybe P1's move was not fairplay but P1 can tell what he wants untill P1 allow other players to look at his informations for any check.

The planets each player controls are public knowledge. It is just good sportsmanship to keep your play area arranged neatly enough that the other players can accurately judge that public knowledge and to outright lie about that information I would consider basically cheating and probably not play games with that person again.

Since the number of planets owned is public knowledge, player 1 was untruthful if he/she had 10 planets but said 9. I don't think it's against the RAW to lie but one must take into account the trust issues when doing so. Especially when it's about things that are supposed to be public information. Now it IS possible that player 1 in this example simply made a mistake and THOUGHT they had only 9 planets only to discover the tenth planet later but I kinda doubt it... Personally, I would probably avoid dealing with that player following an incident like that.

I know there are no rules about deceit since it's part of the game but in as a whole there are some requirements on all players, one of them is outside of hidden cards, everything is public knowledge and hence lying about it is technically against the rules. If I ask, how many trade goods do you have, there is no option to lie, it's public knowledge, you have to tell the truth doing otherwise is cheating. You could say, go ahead and count them, aka, but again you couldn't hide a trade good so that people count wrong and you whip it out in a gotcha moment.

At our table what you described is straight up cheating. You can't lie about things that are public knowledge, that is a rule as public knowledge means you are obligated to reaveal what you have.

On 9/20/2017 at 8:04 AM, Fnoffen said:

Since the number of planets owned is public knowledge, player 1 was untruthful if he/she had 10 planets but said 9. I don't think it's against the RAW to lie but one must take into account the trust issues when doing so. Especially when it's about things that are supposed to be public information. Now it IS possible that player 1 in this example simply made a mistake and THOUGHT they had only 9 planets only to discover the tenth planet later but I kinda doubt it... Personally, I would probably avoid dealing with that player following an incident like that.

Cheating by accident happens, and that is something we deal with now and again, in general, it's a reasonable thing to happen in a complex game like TI3 but at our table we would always favor the information over reality, another words if he said he had 9 planets when asked about public information at the end of the game we would have ruled it 9 planets even if he had 10 just to ensure the person that made the mistake is punished not everyone else. So even in the case of an accident what that guy did would invalidate his 11th planet.

I would not play games with a cheating player like that

Some things to consider.

Accidents aside, do you want players that you can't trust with info that should be public knowledge? The playing surface can become quite crowded, cards get stacked, pieces get covered, you are sitting far away from the other player etc... Do I have to get up and walk around the table to audit your play area because you cannot be trusted to give an honest accounting?

You may put up with minor shenanigans if you are short on players but you should at least explain that this kind of playing is discouraged in your group. To be fair he should also forget the correct number of planets he has when claiming the objective. Bad feelings and lack of trust are not good but if it was an honest accident he should take the hit.

Bob: Hey Jack how many planets you have outside of your home system.

Jack: uhhh...looks like I have 9.

Tom: Hold up Jack, let me count them for you. After all you are a known liar.

Is this really how you want to play ?