10 minutes ago, Archlyte said:

The thing is, this Jabba thing isn't solvable. It breaks down to this: I think the idea of adding super seedy elements to Star Wars sucks.

It blows ****, or inject whatever impolite saying there to indicate I feel it is editing room floor garbage.

I know you are going to run Pulp Fiction Star Wars or Hentai Action Star Wars, and I don't care.

I will never accept that it is better to include these hypersexual or societal woe issues in any strength into the narrative and especially not in the backdrop. To me these are simply faulty design choices and so there is no point in going on about this.

Do you consider genocide to be a societal woe?

2 minutes ago, Degenerate Mind said:

So now I think Star Wars can survive including themes that are already in the OT because I like porn a lot? You're drifting pretty close to ad hominem, Arch.

Unfortunately for your One True PG Star Wars, modern canon has already acknowledged crime, drug addiction, and weird sex. Just in the novel Life Debt alone, there is an Imperial Admiral with a (terminal) spice addiction, a homosexual couple, and a human-zabrak relationship. Even worse, it was well-written to boot. The dreaded adultification that began with ROTJ isn't going anywhere.

Modern canon my ****, it's already there in the first movie. Han and Chewie are drug traffickers working for a crime lord. Han is a straight-up casual murderer. Luke sees the burned corpses of his aunt and uncle. Leia watches her entire people be genocided and is tortured. Luke then kills like a couple million people or whatever when he blows up the Death Star.

Just now, Stan Fresh said:

Modern canon my ****, it's already there in the first movie. Han and Chewie are drug traffickers working for a crime lord. Han is a straight-up casual murderer. Luke sees the burned corpses of his aunt and uncle. Leia watches her entire people be genocided and is tortured. Luke then kills like a couple million people or whatever when he blows up the Death Star.

Yes, but murder isn't seedy and Han was an innocent spice merchant. You wouldn't want people to be left without paprika, would you?

3 minutes ago, Stan Fresh said:

Modern canon my ****, it's already there in the first movie. Han and Chewie are drug traffickers working for a crime lord. Han is a straight-up casual murderer. Luke sees the burned corpses of his aunt and uncle. Leia watches her entire people be genocided and is tortured. Luke then kills like a couple million people or whatever when he blows up the Death Star.

Also, Greedo shot first.

22 minutes ago, Degenerate Mind said:

So now I think Star Wars can survive including themes that are already in the OT because I like porn a lot? You're drifting pretty close to ad hominem, Arch.

Unfortunately for your One True PG Star Wars, modern canon has already acknowledged crime, drug addiction, and weird sex. Just in the novel Life Debt alone, there is an Imperial Admiral with a (terminal) spice addiction, a homosexual couple, and a human-zabrak relationship. Even worse, it was well-written to boot. The dreaded adultification that began with ROTJ isn't going anywhere.

I apologize if that read like I was accusing you of those things, though to be honest I wouldn't judge. I was trying to use that as a possible case not the specific situation. You got me about those novels, and while I don't mind the more correct inclusion of the same gender stuff (it represents family) I didn't buy the second novel because I thought that Chuck didn't capture Star Wars but a few times in that Aftermath novel, and for the most art just did an EU book that passed their muster, which to me says I can probably dismiss all of the new novelizations. I was really hooping I would read something in Aftermath that felt right, but for the most part it wasn't up to snuff. The Mr. Bones character is a good example of why that book is fail, the B-1's were not scary, they are doofy. Putting bones on one, making it kill people, and all that didn't wipe the stupid off it. I guess the kid having made it was a nice touch, and it being his only friend, but of course it went over the top and had to appeal to the wolverine crowd.

I also don't think I am advocating for preschool Star Wars, so that's a bit of a mischaracterization of what I am talking about. I am talking about the attempt to recreate the movie dynamics in backdrop and foreground to fidelity in any new material.

1 minute ago, Archlyte said:

I apologize if that read like I was accusing you of those things, though to be honest I wouldn't judge. I was trying to use that as a possible case not the specific situation. You got me about those novels, and while I don't mind the more correct inclusion of the same gender stuff (it represents family) I didn't buy the second novel because I thought that Chuck didn't capture Star Wars but a few times in that Aftermath novel, and for the most art just did an EU book that passed their muster, which to me says I can probably dismiss all of the new novelizations. I was really hooping I would read something in Aftermath that felt right, but for the most part it wasn't up to snuff. The Mr. Bones character is a good example of why that book is fail, the B-1's were not scary, they are doofy. Putting bones on one, making it kill people, and all that didn't wipe the stupid off it. I guess the kid having made it was a nice touch, and it being his only friend, but of course it went over the top and had to appeal to the wolverine crowd.

I also don't think I am advocating for preschool Star Wars, so that's a bit of a mischaracterization of what I am talking about. I am talking about the attempt to recreate the movie dynamics in backdrop and foreground to fidelity in any new material.

Eh. Mr. Bones struck me as an obviously comical character. A singing, dancing B-1 murder-bot is clearly in the same vein as the Ewoks, if you ask me. If anything, I would say Mr. Bones is a palatable Jar-Jar. "Meesa have a purpose in the overall story now, roger roger! No more bombad poop jokes!"

I still say the book felt perfectly fine in Star Wars - though I refuse to acknowledge that flat, pointless abortion of a character called Eleodie. I swear, that came off as someone else's self insert character.

Was that character in the first book? If so then your point is well taken because I don't remember the character lol

3 minutes ago, Archlyte said:

Was that character in the first book? If so then your point is well taken because I don't remember the character lol

Eleodie was in a single scene of the second book, possibly the third - I haven't read the first or last books yet. Anyway, Eleodie stands out from the rest of an outstanding book for being absolutely awful in every possible way. Eleodie is everything wrong with literature. It was a pirate captain that somehow commanded a stolen Super Star Destroyer, even though it didn't take part in the actual raids and seemed to dislike violence, and went by the super-special-awesome zhe pronoun. The baroque staff it was carrying got more description than Eleodie actually did - the only physical details that were actually given for Eleodie was that it had golden eyes. Fingertips were also mentioned, implying that it had fingers, but not necessarily hands.

An entire chapter was devoted to this pathetic virtue signal.

1 minute ago, Degenerate Mind said:

Eleodie was in a single scene of the second book, possibly the third - I haven't read the first or last books yet. Anyway, Eleodie stands out from the rest of an outstanding book for being absolutely awful in every possible way. Eleodie is everything wrong with literature. It was a pirate captain that somehow commanded a stolen Super Star Destroyer, even though it didn't take part in the actual raids and seemed to dislike violence, and went by the super-special-awesome zhe pronoun. The baroque staff it was carrying got more description than Eleodie actually did - the only physical details that were actually given for Eleodie was that it had golden eyes. Fingertips were also mentioned, implying that it had fingers, but not necessarily hands.

An entire chapter was devoted to this pathetic virtue signal.

Well thank you. I feel even better about not purchasing that second book now. lol

1 hour ago, Archlyte said:

I will never accept that it is better to include these hypersexual or societal woe issues in any strength into the narrative and especially not in the backdrop . To me these are simply faulty design choices and so there is no point in going on about this.

Wait, so having my PCs intervene to keep the peace between Mon Calamari security police and the Quarren Lives Matter protesters is a bad thing. ****, now I have to rewrite that adventure.

1 minute ago, Archlyte said:

Well thank you. I feel even better about not purchasing that second book now. lol

I also noticed that Eleodie was... written differently. It's like someone added it to the book at the last minute, and it wasn't the author who did it. I am utterly convinced Disney decided they needed to look #Woke or something, and decided to stuff some Tumblrina's *** fanfic into Greg's book for literally no reason.

Otherwise a fantastic book that adds a lot (back) to the setting. We've got a crazy Imperial prison, one of Palpatine's favorite Admirals so humg up on elaborate schemes that he's endangering the war effort, Kashyyk's ecosystem, a glimpse at what happened to Tattooine after Jabba's death, and lots of other great stuff. If nothing else, you ought to check it out from your local library.

32 minutes ago, HappyDaze said:

Wait, so having my PCs intervene to keep the peace between Mon Calamari security police and the Quarren Lives Matter protesters is a bad thing. ****, now I have to rewrite that adventure.

Yeah I kind of see that sort of thing as dangerously close to science fiction rather than science fantasy. I don't think it's that big a deal to do some allegory, but if it's blatant then to me it takes me out of the galaxy, messes with my immersion. I did like your example though Happy, lol.

1 hour ago, Archlyte said:

Yeah I kind of see that sort of thing as dangerously close to science fiction rather than science fantasy. I don't think it's that big a deal to do some allegory, but if it's blatant then to me it takes me out of the galaxy, messes with my immersion. I did like your example though Happy, lol.

Considering that the prequels were originally focused upon a trade war and the breakdown of the government because of corporate interests, I think there's plenty of room for banality in Star Wars.

7 hours ago, kaosoe said:

Durdging this discussion point back up again, are we? Excellent. I haven't seen two thread locks in one week since the ErikB days.

How I miss the ErikB days.

Actually, the thread that just got banhammered had some interesting posts early on until it jumped way off into some pretty horrible places.

22 minutes ago, Maelora said:

How I miss the ErikB days.

Actually, the thread that just got banhammered had some interesting posts early on until it jumped way off into some pretty horrible places.

The racism flame war?

2 minutes ago, Degenerate Mind said:

The racism flame war?

I'm not even sure what got it banned in the end. I decided I didn't want to read what it had turned into.

But early on, it had some pretty good exchanges of views.

4 minutes ago, Maelora said:

I'm not even sure what got it banned in the end. I decided I didn't want to read what it had turned into.

But early on, it had some pretty good exchanges of views.

It basically stayed the same towards the end. Hilariously enough, the two or three comments I had on the earlier stuff were approved for being posted shortly after the thread was locked.

I don't know who was to blame. I know it veered off into some pretty grimy areas at the point I stopped looking at it.

The Mods around here are extremely hands-off - it has to be industrial-strength bad for them to lock something.

12 hours ago, Maelora said:

I don't know who was to blame. I know it veered off into some pretty grimy areas at the point I stopped looking at it.

The Mods around here are extremely hands-off - it has to be industrial-strength bad for them to lock something.

Someone derailed my thread Maelora. I was dumb enough to try to respond respectfully at first, but they eventually trolled me in for a few posts before I stopped responding. By then the damage was done though.

37 minutes ago, Archlyte said:

Someone derailed my thread Maelora. I was dumb enough to try to respond respectfully at first, but they eventually trolled me in for a few posts before I stopped responding. By then the damage was done though.

Nonsense. People brought up entirely on topic issues of race, and this set off other posters, because apparently you can't even talk about being a person of color without people going nuts at you.

I'm not blaming you Archlyte. We may not always see eye to eye but I think you're a decent poster who makes salient points. I think it's good to see someone who makes challenging posts or goes beyond the usual orthodoxy. Providing everyone is polite in disagreeing, that kind of thing benefits a forum.

I think, unfortunately, the longer any thread goes on, it will get off-topic (not always a bad thing) and head further down the sewer into bad places. That's when the mods rouse themselves from their torpid hibernation and bring down the banhammer.

3 hours ago, Maelora said:

I'm not blaming you Archlyte. We may not always see eye to eye but I think you're a decent poster who makes salient points. I think it's good to see someone who makes challenging posts or goes beyond the usual orthodoxy. Providing everyone is polite in disagreeing, that kind of thing benefits a forum.

I think, unfortunately, the longer any thread goes on, it will get off-topic (not always a bad thing) and head further down the sewer into bad places. That's when the mods rouse themselves from their torpid hibernation and bring down the banhammer.

New adventure idea. Deep below Jabba's sex dungeon, through the sewage system, sleep the Mods. They are an ancient species that existed long before the twin suns scorched Tattooine into the desert wasteland it is now. But the loud debauchery of the mighty Jabba has woken them from their slumber - and they are hungry. Armed with their banhammers, they loose themselves upon the wicked and unjust.

20 hours ago, Archlyte said:

Yeah I kind of see that sort of thing as dangerously close to science fiction rather than science fantasy. I don't think it's that big a deal to do some allegory, but if it's blatant then to me it takes me out of the galaxy, messes with my immersion. I did like your example though Happy, lol.

I see it as dangerously close to Star Trek as opposed to Star Wars.

If you want to run Trek, run Trek.

12 minutes ago, Vondy said:

I see it as dangerously close to Star Trek as opposed to Star Wars.

If you want to run Trek, run Trek.

Why create these artificial boundaries? Does anyone really care? Half the time the game I'm hosting could be "Heat", or "Blade Runner", or the "Maltese Falcon". That's the beauty of Star Wars, the world-building has such depth, you can really run any kind of genre inside it.

36 minutes ago, whafrog said:

Why create these artificial boundaries?

Why flip out over a quip?