1 hour ago, Daeglan said:

Umm actually chopper was.connected to the imperial network.

I meant connected in the sense of physically. Sure there's the holonet but that requires beacons to be nearby, which didn't factor into the episode at all. They basically had the ability to hack across an unknown amount of space "because reasons".

How do you know? The empire controls the Holonet. Just because they did not show the beacons does not mean they are not their. Also as you said unknown distance.

Good stuff guys. I also found that episode to be cringe worthy, especially the part where Hera (whom I love) one-shot's that imperial ship. This is kind of my point that even within canon there are things that are good, and things that are not so good. I would not allow players to detonate an Imperial Cyber Warfare ship with a remote signal from across the galaxy. You can figure that if there is technology good enough to do it, then there is technology good enough to prevent it. I know it was done as part of the story and the show doesn't have to worry about precedent and balance on the same level as the Game, but this was a bit much imo.

On ‎9‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 8:28 AM, GroggyGolem said:

Next group I'm going to start will be set in the Old Republic era and my intent is to maybe borrow some themes and ideas from Legends but not be beholden to it. All that is really known in canon is the Jedi went to war with the Sith, there was a massacre on Malachor of both Jedi & Sith, the Rule of Two was created by Bane before Yoda was born, Mandalorians went to war with the Jedi & lost & at some point a Mandalorian became a Jedi and created the Darksaber that was later stolen from the temple and used as a ruler's scepter in leading the Mandalorian clans.

I think that is an awesome idea, and it really does skirt a lot of potential problems that I face in running a contemporary era game. Old Republic era gives you so much freedom from most of the specific tropes and details. I always treat technology as having plateaued but with the notion that there have also been dozens of dark ages or regressions because of trends, events, resource wars, etc. I feel that Star Wars really benefits from that long history unspecified or no. This last Friday, the players in my game came to an old Sith Temple on a lost world. In the center of a large ominous room was a reverse dais sunk into the black stone floor, with what looked like a hideous bronze carving as the bottom. The players stepped on one of the trigger stones, and the center of the dais began to light up as the carbonite began to unfreeze and released a mutated Massassi Temple Guardian, who proceeded to try and tear the party limb from limb.

The more exaggerated and mystical past can be brought in without changing the current situation much, which I think is great. I really like that idea of the past being a source of hidden & greater magic and technology.

On 2017-09-17 at 10:41 PM, P-Dub663 said:

Personally, what really grinds my gears is people using the F-Bomb in game. At no point in any of the movies, shows or books does anyone ever use the F-Word. In one group, the non-iconic swearing got so bad that I started flipping destiny points to the dark side.

Star Wars is a rich, well developed universe. There's no reason why folks can't use Sith-spit and bantha poo-doo in lieu of more "terrestrial" swearing.

Anyone using Stackpoleisms like "sithspit" or "lightfight" at my table gets on my poo-doo list.

5 hours ago, penpenpen said:

Anyone using Stackpoleisms like "sithspit" or "lightfight" at my table gets on my poo-doo list.

They aren't optimal, but I just assumed those would be a necessary evil. I did have to get on my players last game because they were cussing like sailors in character. I looked up some Star Wars bad words and the Stackpoleisms are definitely listed there. I did find a few that are basically just replacement words that give the same sort of mouth feel as real world bad words like Fark or Vape. Then there is the one they use on Rebels a lot, Kerabast. Of course Han Solo did say I'll see you in ****, but I think that was because that was PG ish.

So what I guess is optimal are soft bad words, and also expletives in Huttese or some other language. That sound right to you penpenpen?

I (as a player) and my group (as a GM) just raid Firefly and BSG for substitute expletives—

ruttin’

gorram

frak

(and variations)

I like to keep my games fairly "Star Warsy." However, the movies, comics, and novels all have different paces, themes, depths of detail, and maturity levels. This is, to a certain extent, due to the opportunities these different story telling mediums offer. Also, keep in mind, Lucas has always been very conscientious of being kid friendly in the movies and censored-edited his own material in order to ensure they received a PG or PG-13 rating. There is nothing wrong with that and someone who want to emulate that sensibility is well within their rights to do that. In TV terms I'd liken it to writing for "network television." However, I think there is room to run a "cable version" / R-Rated version of Star Wars and still have it vibe "Star Wars." I think its perfectly acceptable to include more intensely romantic / erotic themes than the movies had, or have a noirish exploration of the underworld, or have an arc with the theme "war is ****" insofar as everyone at the table has bought-in and are enjoying themselves. Rogue One certainly had a downer "everybody dies" ending. Some things like graphic description of gore, porno-style sex, real world swear words (use sci-fi ones), and juvenile body humor do interrupt the suspension of disbelief and ruin the feel, in my opinion, but the themes can be broader than what appeared in the movies. Heck, even the comic books - without bothering to delve into the novels - went farther than the movies did. Ayala Secura's romantic life was richer than Han, Luke, and Leia's! While I am resistant (as a GM) to imposing a "style-guide" on my players I do think tables have to have a shared understanding not only of the genre, tropes, and style they are seeking to implement, but of one another's comfort zones as well. Respect and communication are key.

And, you know, running games with/for kids is a great way to bring people into this hobby. You can absolutely do something similar in tone to the droid or Jar Jar episodes from The Clone Wars, but you can also run a fairly mature game full of tragedy and mayhem. Star Wars can handle a broad spectrum of storytelling modes.

I've always been amused at how Lucas claims his movies are "kid friendly". Why? Because they have a bit of light comedy and the odd fart joke?

They also contain: incest overtones, sexual slavery overtones, multiple graphic amputations & dismemberment, a man being graphically immolated, beloved characters dying, and the enslavement of sapient beings.

I love them - but if you think about it, they're not "kid friendlY' just because they have no swearing of "Game of Thrones"-esque sex scenes...

2 hours ago, Daronil said:

I've always been amused at how Lucas claims his movies are "kid friendly". Why? Because they have a bit of light comedy and the odd fart joke?

They also contain: incest overtones, sexual slavery overtones, multiple graphic amputations & dismemberment, a man being graphically immolated, beloved characters dying, and the enslavement of sapient beings.

I love them - but if you think about it, they're not "kid friendlY' just because they have no swearing of "Game of Thrones"-esque sex scenes...

Look at fairly tales. Look at young adult fiction that actually sells. That sort of stuff *is* part of kid-friendly media.

29 minutes ago, Stan Fresh said:

Look at fairly tales. Look at young adult fiction that actually sells. That sort of stuff *is* part of kid-friendly media.

Yeah, you're probably right. Scary, really...

9 minutes ago, Daronil said:

Yeah, you're probably right. Scary, really...

I don't think it is. Imagine if kids only.ever read or watched entirely sanitized media.

Just now, Stan Fresh said:

I don't think it is. Imagine if kids only.ever read or watched entirely sanitized media.

I think there are a lot of shades in between, though. One doesn't have to have "Game of Thrones" / sanitised.

Just now, Daronil said:

I think there are a lot of shades in between, though. One doesn't have to have "Game of Thrones" / sanitised.

And Star Wars is one of those in-between shades.

We've gone overboard in the name of "protecting the kids" to the point they can't handle real life and think colleges should be safe spaces. There's nothing wrong with Star Wars with regards to kids.

Now that @Maelora is back in town, perhaps we can persuade her to give up some stories from some of those forbidden, uncanon, unStar Wars-like Super Sexy Time Star Wars games.

@MrPenguin

Did I just get 'summoned'?

Actually, I guess this thread is full off good points. Play to your table and get everyone on board, make sure you set expectations and respect everyone's limits.

After all, our world was bespoke-built for us . If was Disney, I'd do what Disney did. As I'm not, I did what my players wanted me to do.

The 'sexy time' is probably overstated, though I understand entirely why people on the outside see it that way. The fanservice and Rule34 stuff really is something that's mostly outside of the games. If you want a 'tone' of the MarcyVerse, it's Dragon Age or Mass Effect. Sex sometimes happens on screen, where it's appropriate, but it's not the entirety of the experience. A lot of my guys like Game of Thrones (which I've never watched) or The Witcher (which I've never played), so these elements creep in, and I often don't recognise where they are getting their inspirations from until they straight-up tell me.

I don't see it as my job to police their fantasies or tell them they're 'doing it wrong'. I'm here to provide a great experience for everyone involved, and that means reining some things in during table time. If they want to explore stuff in email or one to ones, that's fine, I can do that. I only ask that they don't upset other players (pretty much the golden rule right there) and try to make a **** good effort at characterisation and role-playing. I usually find that we can find a balance between their fantasies and the experience I want to offer in the game.

1 hour ago, Desslok said:

Now that @Maelora is back in town, perhaps we can persuade her to give up some stories from some of those forbidden, uncanon, unStar Wars-like Super Sexy Time Star Wars games.

Well, if you want that, there's my DeviantArt page But it's usually part of an ongoing story.

As an example... we have two female lovers, played by male players. There's a good deal of banter during the game and involving their friend (a female droid played by a female player). The players have no problems describing the character's affection or talking about their relationship. But they make an effort to portray an actual relationship with arguments and differences of opinion. At one time, the independent space captain actually spent a great deal of her smuggling haul on cosmetic surgery for her lekku. We'd been discussing this topic and body-image in general in other things, and the player picked up that even a strong woman can have insecurities and her upbringing as 'dowry fodder' might leave some emotional scars. The two PCs actually had an in-game, in-character argument over that. The twi'lek won out, her partner gave in, but it hurt the latter that the strongest person she'd ever met could be so insecure and harbour such poor self-image. 'You can take the girl out of Ryloth but you can't take Ryloth out of the girl'. I liked that the player had considered his character's species and gender and come up with something that felt interesting in terms of character development.

Another example - another couple (mixed gender players) are a mixed-species relationship. One is Sensitive and one isn't, and both come from different species and different factions. Yes, they have 'sexy time', but they talk about their relationship, their hopes and fears, and how they live their lives in the shadow of the Galactic Civil War and how it affects their love. They also came up with their own wedding vows.

Another example; one couple is a tad Chaotic Evil on both sides. While they are twisted and unsympathetic people, their relationship is oddly sweet and caring. I was afraid the player wanted to go full Harley Quinn but he's a better role-player than that. Heck, another couple of PCs are involved in an incestuous relationship (parents and daughter) that's bizarrely the most normal and stable thing about their lives.

Sometime sex rears its head in odd ways. At one point, the seductive employer of the 'scum and villainy' group asked one of the PCs - a techy type in her late thirties, not someone used to a sexual lifestyle - to 'entertain' some of her criminal friends in return for lots and lots of tech goodies. After some thought, she agreed; we wrote it by email and it was very offbeat. As a neat side-quest, her giant bodyguard robot has started murdering all the guys involved in that night's sordid activities, because the hulking thing has a weird, murderous crush on its creator. Now the player certainly knows what's going, but the character is completely baffled by it.

One last one; a male Jedi (male player) has fallen in love with a female droid (female player), even though his faction considers robots to be soulless tools that shouldn't be accorded human rights. And the whole thing has a genuinely 'forbidden love' element to it.

I guess that's enough for now.

4 hours ago, whafrog said:

We've gone overboard in the name of "protecting the kids" to the point they can't handle real life and think colleges should be safe spaces. There's nothing wrong with Star Wars with regards to kids.

I actually loved that the original film isn't Bowlderized. It's not Game of Thrones level of graphic, but Luke has his foster parents killed, his mentor killed and his boyhood pal killed all in one film. An entire planet is blown to smithereens.

I was seven when I saw it, and didn't understand all the ramifications, but I understood Bad Things happened. Like ET, it was a kid's film that didn't patronise or talk down to its audience.

On ‎26‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 0:50 AM, Nytwyng said:

I (as a player) and my group (as a GM) just raid Firefly and BSG for substitute expletives—

ruttin’

gorram

frak

(and variations)

Swearing is... it's one of those things that's tough to call. It's interesting that the game Shadowrun started with its own in-game euphemisms, but later editions switched to real-world swear-words.

One PC uses 'kriffing' a lot, and there are quite a few 'Star Wars-y' sayings, but other PCs use real-world swear-words.

Call it 'Deadwood Syndrome'. When making the Wild West drama, the producers started off using the contemporary curses of the day, which included a lot of blaspheming. However, this just made them sound like Foghorn Leghorn or Yosemite Sam, and they felt the real terms didn't carry the level of explicitness and depravity that they felt the town of Deadwood would have. So they went with the f-word and c-word and everything else, because these things would have more of an impact on a modern audience.

One of the players whose character curses a lot pointed out that almost every human culture in history develops sexual swear words, and it would feel odd if that wasn't the case in a galaxy far, far away. I couldn't really argue with that.

All I ask is that it's in character (if it makes sense for the character to speak that way; most character's don't). Out-of-world references are pretty much banned at the table. Show me your Monty Python impressions in the pub afterwards, if you absolutely must.

4 hours ago, whafrog said:

We've gone overboard in the name of "protecting the kids" to the point they can't handle real life and think colleges should be safe spaces. There's nothing wrong with Star Wars with regards to kids.

Fixed that for ya............

WARNING: I get a little diverted here

Going to run out of likes for Marcy. Yeah I think we are about the same Age and have some similar ideas, but to be a rebel I have recently decided to purposely go against RPG wisdom and actually interfere. This is far different from the way you describe your game where you basically have a writer's room full of people who can contribute very good stuff. I don't have that with my current groups, and as they have been willing to follow, I am choosing to lead. I dutifully have followed the rules for years and have allowed Player Agency the ability to run roughshod over my sensibilities.

But now I'm an F'in tyrant. My time is too precious, and I don't give a crap. Beer & Pretzels can take a leap for the near future as far as I am concerned. Want to cuntpunt ewoks and play a Cyberdyne Model 800? Take it somewhere else. Lawn Forbidden to foot traffic!

I am a nice guy in real life, and as a matter of fact I am a Mental Health Behavioral Specialist, so I help children and families for a living. But this is my Rubicon. My current batch of players in one group are younger than me, eager to learn and play, and have a great attitude. But they come from anarchist games where it was survival of the most outrageous and open, real conflict between players was a thing. I punted their worst player out of my house and the rest of them stayed behind once I had slain the dragon for them. My table is friendly, helpful, and we respect each other enough that everyone (including me) gets feedback. One player the other day sent me a message thanking me for everything I do for the players, and saying how he is glad he found my game. So unless it's all mendacity for the sake of it they are happy enough.

Anyway, I just feel like there is a dogma now in place for how to interact in these games, and that has become a cultural model reinforced by shows like Critical Role. How does the average player stack up to beautiful voice and film actors who still do cool kid joking and smoking in the session in between professional level drama? Is it cool that they have that show? Yes. But I don't like the idea that that is the breadth of variety.

I have been playing these games since I was junior high age, and now I'm in my mid forties, so I'm not tinkering with stuff I don't know about. I accept that some of the wisdom is valid, but I accept those premises on their own and as I have seen them work, but not everything they tell you to do is the end-all one answer. I am testing my hypothesis and so far I have not had any reason to conclude I am wrong.

Tangent: In terms of swearing, my group mostly uses Star Wars slang supplemented by intergalactic loan words from breadth of science fiction for expletives. The only real world term that gets dropped in on occasion is d-a-m-n.

49 minutes ago, Archlyte said:

WARNING: I get a little diverted here

Going to run out of likes for Marcy. Yeah I think we are about the same Age and have some similar ideas, but to be a rebel I have recently decided to purposely go against RPG wisdom and actually interfere. This is far different from the way you describe your game where you basically have a writer's room full of people who can contribute very good stuff. I don't have that with my current groups, and as they have been willing to follow, I am choosing to lead. I dutifully have followed the rules for years and have allowed Player Agency the ability to run roughshod over my sensibilities.

But now I'm an F'in tyrant. My time is too precious, and I don't give a crap. Beer & Pretzels can take a leap for the near future as far as I am concerned. Want to cuntpunt ewoks and play a Cyberdyne Model 800? Take it somewhere else. Lawn Forbidden to foot traffic!

I am a nice guy in real life, and as a matter of fact I am a Mental Health Behavioral Specialist, so I help children and families for a living. But this is my Rubicon. My current batch of players in one group are younger than me, eager to learn and play, and have a great attitude. But they come from anarchist games where it was survival of the most outrageous and open, real conflict between players was a thing. I punted their worst player out of my house and the rest of them stayed behind once I had slain the dragon for them. My table is friendly, helpful, and we respect each other enough that everyone (including me) gets feedback. One player the other day sent me a message thanking me for everything I do for the players, and saying how he is glad he found my game. So unless it's all mendacity for the sake of it they are happy enough.

Anyway, I just feel like there is a dogma now in place for how to interact in these games, and that has become a cultural model reinforced by shows like Critical Role. How does the average player stack up to beautiful voice and film actors who still do cool kid joking and smoking in the session in between professional level drama? Is it cool that they have that show? Yes. But I don't like the idea that that is the breadth of variety.

I have been playing these games since I was junior high age, and now I'm in my mid forties, so I'm not tinkering with stuff I don't know about. I accept that some of the wisdom is valid, but I accept those premises on their own and as I have seen them work, but not everything they tell you to do is the end-all one answer. I am testing my hypothesis and so far I have not had any reason to conclude I am wrong.

Are people saying you are "doing it wrong" or are they just saying they're own style and sensibility is different than yours? After all, you did ask, didn't you? Personally, if what you are doing works for you and your players then you are doing it right. It may well produce great games and hours of fun for you and yours. I do think attention to the source material and genre are important, and playing to the genre tropes makes for better games, overall. If the players are constantly bringing in elements, references, or a tone or tenor that runs counter to the genre, they need to be counseled or ejected. I just happen to feel you can still get the "Star Warsy" feel without a style-guide style informed orthodoxy, or nixing more mature elements insofar as everyone is comfortable with those being included in play. A story starring a charming thief who seduces her way into scores will be different one starring a jedi fighting for justice on the fringe or a ruthless bounty hunter who is willing to cross the line into being a mercenary or assassin. And yet, all of those characters and stories can exist in the SW galaxy. You should certainly talk to your players about the kind of game you want to run and establish what your - and their - preferences and comfort levels are. That is the first rule of gaming. I just think that the story you want to run isn't the only story that can be run. Your definition of what is and isn't "star warsy" isn't exclusive. Finito.

1 minute ago, Vondy said:

Are people saying you are "doing it wrong" or are they just saying they're own style and sensibility is different than yours? After all, you did ask, didn't you? Personally, if what you are doing works for you and your players then you are doing it right. It may well produce great games and hours of fun for you and yours. I do think attention to the source material and genre are important, and playing to the genre tropes makes for better games, overall. If the players are constantly bringing in elements, references, or a tone or tenor that runs counter to the genre, they need to be counseled or ejected. I just happen to feel you can still get the "Star Warsy" feel without a style-guide style informed orthodoxy, or nixing more mature elements insofar as everyone is comfortable with those being included in play. A story starring a charming thief who seduces her way into scores will be different one starring a jedi fighting for justice on the fringe or a ruthless bounty hunter who is willing to cross the line into being a mercenary or assassin. And yet, all of those characters and stories can exist in the SW galaxy. You should certainly talk to your players about the kind of game you want to run and establish what your - and their - preferences and comfort levels are. That is the first rule of gaming. I just think that the story you want to run isn't the only story that can be run. Your definition of what is and isn't "star warsy" isn't exclusive. Finito.

Great post Vondy! No I asked for the stuff in the thread so I'm not saying that I asked a question and now I don't like the answer.

But I am also saying **** the first rule of gaming, and the rest. I have come to believe in what I call the Tao of RPG. Each thing is right when it is right, and not because of a rule. They told me not to interfere with player agency, so I did it just to see what would happen. The conventional wisdom said to ask them what they want to do, so I didn't. I found that these rules are just there to guide you, especially in the early years of gaming, but they are not absolute truths. I have broken almost every rule (that isn't just being petty or hateful, I'm talking about the rules for Role-Playing every game has usually in it's Running the Game section) that I could think of, and guess what, the games did not go down in flames. I'm sure there would be circumstances where a wrong move could have done that, but these things--these rules of RPGs--are not physics.