Should Palpatine, Vader, Jabba, Boba Fett, Luke and Han be the most powerful characters in the game? Should the most iconic characters rule the game?

Wouldn't it be horrible if anyone who has seen the movies could guess the all-time meta defining pilots? Would the game be better if the X-wing was as broken as the jumpmaster?

Would the game be better if all ships, but the most iconic ones, and all pilots and crew but the most well-known ones were tier 2 at best?

"You can certainly play the jumpmaster, but in a competitive environment it has no chance against Triple X-Wings and Vader with TIE/ln escort."

I mean, sure, the current state is not ideal, but at least the meta changes a lot and the waves introduce new, interesting elements to the game, almost always shaking up things greatly.

No. If iconic characters were always the best, you'd have the same problems from a competitive stand point as you do now, except "Nym" would be named "Luke". Would it be BETTER if these top tier characters were the most recognizable characters? Sure, but it would never be worth it in a game that thrives most when it is diverse to intentionally make some things better than others.

FFG should do it's very best to make every single component balanced in such a way that it has a use in some way (even if limited or niche) in a competitive setting, or at least in some aspect of the game (but if that aspect is not catered towards the standard format, the consumer should be made aware before being asked to purchase).

Plot Shields don't make for good gameplay.

That would probably be the worst possible state for the game.

Ideally, most/all ships should be viable. If that's not the case,the top of the meta should be continuously changing, to prevent staleness and give people incentives to keep buying new stuff.

Let's say Luke and Vader are the top of the meta, forever. Who buys everything else? Not fluff players because they'd rather play Luke and Vader than some random EU ship and not competitive players, because they'd rather play Luke and Vader rather than anything weaker. If nobody buys new releases, why should FFG keep the game going?

I think the iconic chars were quite well designed and placed until the jumpocalypse happened.

They dont have to be OP, just at least see the table.

Luke has a cool ability, just a crappy ship. Put him in a T70 with autothrusters and he would see table time.

Im happy with most of the movie star pilots other than the x-wingers, and Lando. The others see enough table time to satisfy me. Han,Boba,Chewie,Vader,Poe,Rey, and soon to be Kylo in the Silencer. They have all been pretty relevant in the last year at some major tournies. Not winning major tournies, but making top cuts.

Hopefully a new luke comes with last jedi and we get him in a T-70 or suped up Awing. That would be cool.

I'd rather have Luke & Vader be everywhere than Miranda and Nym. This is supposed to be a Star Wars game; why is it largely ruled by characters who are completely unidentifiable to the majority of Star Wars fandom?

18 minutes ago, Hawkstrike said:

I'd rather have Luke & Vader be everywhere than Miranda and Nym. This is supposed to be a Star Wars game; why is it largely ruled by characters who are completely unidentifiable to the majority of Star Wars fandom?

What incentive would you give people to buy new waves then?

I agree with @Hawkstrike; if we have broken OP ships/pilots anyway then they might as well be the iconic characters.

Of course I would prefer if none was that dominating. But I'd definitely prefer it to be Vader or Luke instead of Nym and Miranda

5 minutes ago, LordBlades said:

What incentive would you give people to buy new waves then?

What incentive did people have to buy new waves since wave 8 in March 2016?

4 minutes ago, LordBlades said:

What incentive would you give people to buy new waves then?

We don't have Leia as a pilot -- what a crying shame! Lobot's more recognizably Star Wars than Miranda or Nym, and he hasn't shown up yet. We're not hurting for recognizable characters, and more generics wouldn't hurt either.

You need a balanced game for sure, but I would much rather have OP icons than what we have now. Rock paper scissors should be something like:

"If you want to kill Wedge you better put Vader in your squad. Yeah but Vader is no match for Han! Dude Han melts to Boba Fett by like turn 3!"

And if you want to sell games remember that for every one of us on these forums, there is probably something like 20 people who have a core and maybe a Falcon and 2 ties that has never even thought to visit the FFG websites but just plays on their kitchen table or looks at cool models on their shelves.

4 minutes ago, Hawkstrike said:

We don't have Leia as a pilot -- what a crying shame! Lobot's more recognizably Star Wars than Miranda or Nym, and he hasn't shown up yet. We're not hurting for recognizable characters, and more generics wouldn't hurt either.

You can't fill 2 waves a year just with iconic ships and pilots. If it was possible, FFG would do it IMO. Occasionally you'll need to put in the occasional obscure ship (especially for Scum).

If a ship is neither iconic, nor competitive, who buys it then?

Even for iconic ships, they sell better if they're also good IMO.

Doesn't matter what it should be, as the OT characters were designed first and therefore not as well (or overpowered) as later ships

If we're getting into dream territory, no one should be so grossly overpowered

Gameplay > fluff, and variety for the sake of player enjoyment should always trump "omglookitsvader"

OT Luke Skywalker should amazing.

He destroyed the Death Star and easily has the most kills of any pilot ever.

Poe blew up a Planet which is good i guess...but it mostly had trees on it anyway. Lost a lot of good owls that day.

Balance is what should be desired, so having even the most recognizable Dtar Wars characters being OP is a bad thing.

Outside of that, while I wouldn't mind see more OT characters on the field, I like that there are "less recognizable" characters out there pulling their weight. Despite the general public not knowing about them, characters like Dash Rendar and Kyle Katarn are just as much a part of Star Wars for me as Luke and Vader. So I'm glad they are in the game and that at least one of them is in top tier.

Plus, this gives a chance for people to be exposed to the larger SW universe. Despite his controversial meta status, Nym's actually a pretty cool character. I love that we have all the big bounty hunters and their ships (even the Jumpmaster). We get to see pirate gangs, Imperial experiments, and Rebel Irregulars.

9 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

OT Luke Skywalker should amazing.

He destroyed the Death Star and easily has the most kills of any pilot ever.

Poe blew up a Planet which is good i guess...but it mostly had trees on it anyway.

You know what, FAQ trees. ??? they suck.

I play luke and Vader anyway, even the crew, but I'm super casual.

It wasn't very long ago that Fat Han ruled the skies. And people hated it. Can't please anybody.

4 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

What incentive did people have to buy new waves since wave 8 in March 2016?

Scum?

The Jumpmaster has been dominating ever since he was released. And yet people bought the new stuff.

So why would people not buy new stuff anymore if Luke instead of Jumps was dominating?

The iconic characters should be at least decent in the game if they're known for their piloting. New players gravitate towards the pilots and ships they know of in the movies.

They should be powerful, yes, but also balanced. Luke should be awesome, but he should be envenly matched against his point equivalent of opposing ships.

It boggles the mind that a game that has a point cost system designed specifically to balance characters of different individual strengths simply cannot get things balanced due to a reluctance to adjusting point values for tournaments.

1 hour ago, takfar said:

They should be powerful, yes, but also balanced. Luke should be awesome, but he should be envenly matched against his point equivalent of opposing ships.

It boggles the mind that a game that has a point cost system designed specifically to balance characters of different individual strengths simply cannot get things balanced due to a reluctance to adjusting point values for tournaments.

But, but the cards...they would be wrong! They would have the wrong numbers! That's...it's...I don't even want to think about it!

4 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

OT Luke Skywalker should amazing.

He destroyed the Death Star and easily has the most kills of any pilot ever.

Poe blew up a Planet which is good i guess...but it mostly had trees on it anyway. Lost a lot of good owls that day.

So, had to spend 5 minutes laughing before I could post.

4 hours ago, SabineKey said:

Balance is what should be desired, so having even the most recognizable Dtar Wars characters being OP is a bad thing.

Outside of that, while I wouldn't mind see more OT characters on the field, I like that there are "less recognizable" characters out there pulling their weight. Despite the general public not knowing about them, characters like Dash Rendar and Kyle Katarn are just as much a part of Star Wars for me as Luke and Vader. So I'm glad they are in the game and that at least one of them is in top tier.

Plus, this gives a chance for people to be exposed to the larger SW universe. Despite his controversial meta status, Nym's actually a pretty cool character. I love that we have all the big bounty hunters and their ships (even the Jumpmaster). We get to see pirate gangs, Imperial experiments, and Rebel Irregulars.

When I used to play the Decipher SWCCG, one of the things I hated was that the "Mains and Toys" deck builds became the only thing worth playing. Stormtroopers were commons, and were absolute crap and a waste of cardstock. If you did not have "Han Solo" + "Solo's DL-44 Blaster" you didn't have a chance. The game no longer felt like it was set in the Star Wars Universe, but more like a brawl in Club S-W where only the Who's Who of the Galaxy got snippy with one another. Not to mention that all the Mains and Toys were rares, so winning decks literally cost hundreds of dollars (maybe even a thousand--Vader was going for $100 alone on the secondary market!).

One of the thing I like about this game was that the lowly Academy Pilot had a role. The game is loosing that because of unique pilots being overly powerful. I don't care if it is Luke, Nym, Han, or Vader, or Dash. I don't want this game to devolve into Mains-only.

OTOH, one lead that XWM could take from Decipher is multiple versions of the same main: we have 2 Poes and 2 Hans, but what about Vader in a V-Wing? Or Lando in the Lady Luck? Or make a version of Luke that fires proton torpedoes without a target lock. Yeah, it wouldn't look classic on the table, but it might give the OT folks new life.

Lastly, my brother flew Luke and Wedge last week in a game of Epic. They are still pilots that given me fits.

31 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

When I used to play the Decipher SWCCG, one of the things I hated was that the "Mains and Toys" deck builds became the only thing worth playing.

Bless you, I loved that game! I never played competively so I still had fun with all sorts of different goofy decks.

32 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

but what about Vader in an ETA-2

Fixed that for ya.

this game has such a small margin between top teir and second or even third. It's often just one aspect of a pilot or ship that works really well with a particular upgrade that allows certain lists to perform consistently. Multiple mods, price point, auto damage, extreme action effeciency, it all comes together in the 'best' pilots. The worst offender is still the Junkmaster, that ship was just a mistake.

thay said, I don't know how to 'fix' the Meta so that Vader, Luke and pals would see more airtime, but maybe there's lots of Sabine fans out there that's are really happy right now.

1 hour ago, GrimmyV said:

But, but the cards...they would be wrong! They would have the wrong numbers! That's...it's...I don't even want to think about it!

Yes, yes. At this point knowledge of the faq is already required to play a tournament. I don't see how a twice-yearly or once-quarterly scheduled price rebalance would be worse than the current situation of having to wait for a faq for nerfing and a "fix" re-release for buffing ships.

Anyone playing 100% casual wouldn't be affected much, and the tournament scene would be much improved for it.