So, my friend has become adamant that the Rebels are"overpowered". This is due to the many defeats he has suffered because of "better ships, upgrades, commanders" etc. I have tried to convince him otherwise, but I've run out of an argument.

Tell him to run sloane with a full fighter compliment alongside an isd, a quaser, and a gozanti. rebels were generally perceived to have an edge but there's give and take on both sides.

Just now, dominosfleet said:

Tell him to run sloane with a full fighter compliment alongside an isd, a quaser, and a gozanti. rebels were generally perceived to have an edge but there's give and take on both sides.

I will be sure to do that.

I actually do think that rebels are marginally superior due to their better Admirals and better medium ships but I also think that the difference in strength between the two factions is marginal and has very little effect on the game. If you want to see unbalanced and overpowered, check out Scum and Villainy in X Wing. We are very lucky with Armada IMO.

I suppose what I really should ask is this: What are some things the Empire has over the Rebels, and/or what can they do better than the Rebels?

17 minutes ago, schmidty1701 said:

I suppose what I really should ask is this: What are some things the Empire has over the Rebels, and/or what can they do better than the Rebels?

ISDs. Alpha strike with squadrons. Demolisher. Quasar.

A lot of things synergies with Imperials in general.

Valen. *******. Rudor.

With decimators.

I mean, how do you really answer that question?

I feel both sides have wonderful options, tactics, and ways to fly.

I could list 15 things the empire has thats awesome, but wouldn't say it has an "edge". Well, other than Demo. But that has counters like anything.

Its not a matter, i feel, of whom is better. But playing both sides to understand both sides strengths and weaknesses in order to anticipate more about what your opponent will do, and counter his plays.

Anytime I've lost big, it's because i got blindsided by a fleet build I've never encountered, or i got baited into engagements i believed i could win and utterly got smashed.

2 minutes ago, TallGiraffe said:

ISDs. Alpha strike with squadrons. Demolisher. Quasar.

A lot of things synergies with Imperials in general.

Valen. *******. Rudor.

With decimators.

Jesus. On my list of 15 things i said exactly the same ****. Even down to "Valen ******* Rudor"

1 hour ago, Bolshevik65 said:

I actually do think that rebels are marginally superior due to their better Admirals and better medium ships but I also think that the difference in strength between the two factions is marginal and has very little effect on the game. If you want to see unbalanced and overpowered, check out Scum and Villainy in X Wing. We are very lucky with Armada IMO.

Color me confused here;

-The Rebels only have one medium ship, the Assault Frigate, which suffers from being a generalist in a game that of late is trending toward specialization. The Empire has the very min-maxed quasar and the newly empowered long range firepower of the Victory (Granted, both of those are new developments), although the Interdictor has ended up relegated to campaign play. Unless you're including any non-large ship in a $30 blister, but MC30 vs Gladiator is an apples to oranges thing, and the Pelta has its share of flaws. If anything, I'd say it's the command 1 ships that push rebels ahead; The Gozanti pays a lot for those attack dice, and the CR90 is a lot more straightforward than the raider (although expanded racks has helped the latter a lot).

-The admirals thing is something I've heard before, and it's always kind of... baffled me. The empire has cheaper, more versatile commanders in Motti, Screed, and Jerjerod (Sloane and Vader are more specialized, but still good). Rebels pay more points for commanders that demand you build a list around them. Except Dodonna, but if you don't build around crits he's pretty situational. Granted, the empire does have the two worst commanders (Tagge and Konstantine), and they're kind of glaringly bad.

I'm not necessarily saying Rebels don't have a slight competitive edge at the moment (Tournament results seem to suggest as much), but I don't think better commanders or medium ships are the reason.

Defender-Interceptor alphastrike!

Also Empire is just nasty ad all get-out in short-range engagements. You can build lists with a respectable diversity of ships that all hit hard close-in.

29 minutes ago, Karneck said:

Jesus. On my list of 15 things i said exactly the same ****. Even down to "Valen ******* Rudor"

Valen with Dengar and 4 Decimators. Bring no intel at your own peril.

The thing about armada which your friend will probably take offence too but it is more about the player than the ships etc. Yes of course ships and commanders do affect it but I think the player is the biggest part. Put a 2 ISD build in the hands of somebody that does not know what they are doing and they get blown away. Put that same list is somebody that is good and it will blow everyone away. I have to admit I am a sub part player. When I first started I played a few friends that played the games a couple of time so a year with my ships. I have now engaged with the group in my area started to play against people that at better players and the fleets that I dominated with before are getting crushed with players that are better.

So tell your friend to keep playing try new lists, watch batreps on you tube try to find same games in vassal all those things are helping me to get better and giving me better fleet ideas for both rebels and Empire

7 minutes ago, Payens said:

The thing about armada which your friend will probably take offence too but it is more about the player than the ships etc. Yes of course ships and commanders do affect it but I think the player is the biggest part. Put a 2 ISD build in the hands of somebody that does not know what they are doing and they get blown away. Put that same list is somebody that is good and it will blow everyone away. I have to admit I am a sub part player. When I first started I played a few friends that played the games a couple of time so a year with my ships. I have now engaged with the group in my area started to play against people that at better players and the fleets that I dominated with before are getting crushed with players that are better.

So tell your friend to keep playing try new lists, watch batreps on you tube try to find same games in vassal all those things are helping me to get better and giving me better fleet ideas for both rebels and Empire

I've actually Have had to stop myself from saying "have you considered it's you?" Or worse, "have you considered I'm better?" I have never outright said those, but I constantly think them, as even during our games I'm constantly thinking of simple ways he could counter my moves. He also doesn't take critisism very well.

Just now, schmidty1701 said:

I've actually Have had to stop myself from saying "have you considered it's you?" Or worse, "have you considered I'm better?" I have never outright said those, but I constantly think them, as even during our games I'm constantly thinking of simple ways he could counter my moves. He also doesn't take critisism very well.

I feel I should say I have tried to help him as much as I can, short of telling him how to kill me.

Schmidty,

Your one of better players I've had a chance to meet and watch play. You are also extremely helpful.

It may sound childish, but sounds like your friend has some character flaws he needs to get over.

It's not you, it's him.

Seems like he has preconceived notions of grandeur and likely thinks the empire is played blasting dead ahead at the rebels.

I haven't been playing even a year and I've gotten my *** beat at any tournament I've entered. But i continue to come away with lessons learned and continue to refine. You don't catch up to two year veterans by only playing once a month.

1 minute ago, Karneck said:

Schmidty,

Your one of better players I've had a chance to meet and watch play. You are also extremely helpful.

It may sound childish, but sounds like your friend has some character flaws he needs to get over.

It's not you, it's him.

Seems like he has preconceived notions of grandeur and likely thinks the empire is played blasting dead ahead at the rebels.

I haven't been playing even a year and I've gotten my *** beat at any tournament I've entered. But i continue to come away with lessons learned and continue to refine. You don't catch up to two year veterans by only playing once a month.

He does have flaws. I try to ignore when he has fits of rage when the dice suck.

If he's complaining Rebels are overpowered, he's obviously flying Imperial. Tell him to switch sides and see if they're still overpowered when he's using them. I have a feeling the Imperials will suddenly be overpowered.

It does sound like he's either making major mistakes in list building (which can be both daunting and tricky for newer players), or making major mistakes in how he flies the fleet. Perhaps both. A critique of his list building and a post-game review might be in order, if he wants to learn what's going wrong. That said, if he has a propensity toward rage outs, maybe he won't take kindly to that either; in which case, let him rage.

Yup, bad dice rolls suck. Thats the random elements of the game. Thats not anything to do about balance.

At NOVA open, i was alpha strikng with three interceptors and howlrunner with flight controllers on one target. Out of 22 blue dice with 3 rerolls, i rolled a total of 4 damage one round.

Super frustrating. But if that's what he's hung on, there's nothing you can do.

Suggest another game i guess?

16 minutes ago, NakedDex said:

If he's complaining Rebels are overpowered, he's obviously flying Imperial. Tell him to switch sides and see if they're still overpowered when he's using them. I have a feeling the Imperials will suddenly be overpowered.

It does sound like he's either making major mistakes in list building (which can be both daunting and tricky for newer players), or making major mistakes in how he flies the fleet. Perhaps both. A critique of his list building and a post-game review might be in order, if he wants to learn what's going wrong. That said, if he has a propensity toward rage outs, maybe he won't take kindly to that either; in which case, let him rage.

He's not a new player, so it's how he flies the fleet.

It sounds like he's not one for taking critique? Are his lists solid and the execution just... lacking?

12 minutes ago, NakedDex said:

It sounds like he's not one for taking critique? Are his lists solid and the execution just... lacking?

He will take some critique, but I stay away from telling about his skill, or, possible lack thereof. He can make solid lists. It should be noted he doesn't lose all the time, but he has been recently. A lot of the time he makes his fleets after I do. I use Warlords so I just get out what I need. He has the advantage of being able to look at my fleet (I allow him to) but he can't capitalize on it.

I'm gonna second the "have him play the other side" suggestion. Call it cross-training.

Just now, Church14 said:

I'm gonna second the "have him play the other side" suggestion. Call it cross-training.

We've actually begun that.

5 hours ago, Squark said:

Color me confused here;

-The Rebels only have one medium ship, the Assault Frigate, which suffers from being a generalist in a game that of late is trending toward specialization. The Empire has the very min-maxed quasar and the newly empowered long range firepower of the Victory (Granted, both of those are new developments), although the Interdictor has ended up relegated to campaign play. Unless you're including any non-large ship in a $30 blister, but MC30 vs Gladiator is an apples to oranges thing, and the Pelta has its share of flaws. If anything, I'd say it's the command 1 ships that push rebels ahead; The Gozanti pays a lot for those attack dice, and the CR90 is a lot more straightforward than the raider (although expanded racks has helped the latter a lot).

-The admirals thing is something I've heard before, and it's always kind of... baffled me. The empire has cheaper, more versatile commanders in Motti, Screed, and Jerjerod (Sloane and Vader are more specialized, but still good). Rebels pay more points for commanders that demand you build a list around them. Except Dodonna, but if you don't build around crits he's pretty situational. Granted, the empire does have the two worst commanders (Tagge and Konstantine), and they're kind of glaringly bad.

I'm not necessarily saying Rebels don't have a slight competitive edge at the moment (Tournament results seem to suggest as much), but I don't think better commanders or medium ships are the reason.

I was thinking of the overall abilities and characteristics of Nebulon Bs, Peltas and Assault Frigates. It's all subjective of course but I just think they are marginally better than Victories and Interdictors. With the advent of Disposable Capacitors Victories are much improved but they are rather tied to Moff Jerjerrod who you might not always want to take.

Quasars I'm not sure about. Personally I think they are great carriers but expensive to kit out and vulnerable. I'm not saying that's wrong, far from it.

Ironically I got to the top table in a store tournament with a dual Interdictor and Konstantine build. I just sat with them near the space station in Contested Outpost and used him with tractor beams and Titus. Came unstuck against Mad Cat in the last game but it was a decent effort I thought. IMO that was a one off though and Interdictors aren't great (though far from being useless) and Konstantine is very situational.

Very simple solution. Play Imperials yourself and let him play Rebels.

Variety is more fun anyway.