I understand that Ratskins may be a Necromunda specific tribal society, but it stands to reason that similar tribes could spring up in any underhive society or environment. Be they worshippers of snakes, sludge, rats, mutants, or other abstract ideas.

Using the Ratskins as a basic template for Underhive Natives, or Feral Hive Worlders, what origin fits best for them? Feral Worlder? Hiver Worlder? Pick and mix both?

Dont get me wrong, I have something I am working on so it isnt that I dont have a clue or notion to go on here, but Im just trying to pick the hive mind collective brain here before I start typing.

I think a background or alternate starting package for a Feral Worlder would be the way to go.

From what little I know the idea of them is that they are very far removed from hive life.

Maybe give them Literacy and Tech Use as untrained basic skills, maybe access to Trade: Technomat.

ItsUncertainWho said:

Er... so the feral hivers would be able to read better then the actual hivers and be more accustomed to factory work as well? ;-p

I'd second the idea of a slight tweak package to Feral Worlder... if it's even needed. Heck, a strait Feral World background could work just as well unmodified. If you were to modify it, the only thing you might want to change is the name of Wilderness savvy and exchange Surface Navigation being basic for Tech-Use being basic (though the -10 to all tech-use tests due to their primitive nature would still apply ;-) )

Graver said:

Yeah, why not? They aren't a part of Imperial society. They don't live with the restrictions placed on normal hivers or workers. They must survive in a techno-wilderness and they revere archaeotech. I don't see why some of them wouldn't have learned to do basic tech repairs and heretek modifications to items for survival. They would most certainly understand some of the warning and danger signs in the underhive as it would be necessary for survival, as well as knowing what indicates a sewer line, fresh water line, gas line, etc as all of these would be vital to survival.

I also understood Trade: Technomat to be more of a handyman skill than a factory worker. In my mind most factory workers would know how to screw in the one screw that they are assigned to screw in and not much more.

Also, I would put a restriction on the Wilderness Savvy and Survival skills to be applicable only in technologically advanced areas, hives, ships, large cities or industrial complexes as there are no water pipes in the woods.

ItsUncertainWho said:

Good point on the fact of them not being a part of Imperial society as much as regular Hivers which could lead them to be less prone to the whole Ignorance is a Virtue mindset... but I don't think, generally speaking, that the lowest of the low in a hive, those that have to fight to the death in sump-pits to eat for a day are going to be more literate then the manufactorium workers and scum above their heads. If it's to avoid dangerous areas by reading danger signs, I'd think the basic factory worker and hiver would be able to do the same to avoid dangerous areas higher up. Literacy as a basic really dose not fir the primitive idea and if a Hiver doesn't get it, I can't see primitive hive tribes would (barring a primitive tribe of librarians who guard the fallen and lost Librarium of the Cascades which had fallen and been buried for 500 years now).

As for the handy-man aspect, that would actually be Tech-Use, not technomat. By the RAW, technomat is essentially the skill of factory workers. You don't know jack about tech, but you know that putting the cog in position 2 and pulling lever three 2 seconds latter will result in the second assemblage of toaster-oven 26 being assembled, etc. Essentialy, what you describe factory workers doing is what technomat is. Tech-Use tends to be the more generalized jury-rigging skill as it involves some form of understanding (and thus ability to go outside the strict proscribed steps of doing something) then technomat. To be honest, though, I have no clue why Trade (technomat) exists save to give a skill for working in a factory or knowing how to lube engine part #967 (which doesn't really seem like it needs to be a skill and only adds to the skill-bloat of the system). I've alerted what it means and dose in my game as well to actually give it some purpose for existing in regards to the PCs and independent from tech-use, but when helping anouther with questions regarding the system, you kind of have to stick to the RAW. It's the only thing any of us have as common ground for discussion.

Either way, if some of them would learn the rough basics of maintianing machines and mindlessly assembling parts or learn enough to read at a rudementary level because of warning signs, not all would (hell, they might know what the sum whole of a warning sign means, but not it's indavidual parts and, as such, woudln't figure out how to read from it -they would just know that the inverted yellow triangle with the anchent runes and a pictogram of a man being hit on the head by a black line means that head injury might happen in that area... most danger signs rely on shape, color, and simple pictograms, not words after all ;-) ). That would be reflected by career and skill choice (such as reclemator) and not Home World. The Home World Origin is supposed to represent what would be common to everyone of a particular background, not just some from that background -that comes latter from career and skill/talent choices. Literacy as a basic doesn't fit what every feral hiver would have nor dose technomat.

I can see an argument for the survival skills only applying inside a hive, but in this case, i'd argue against it. If I recall correctly, the Ratskins also existed outside the hives in the ash waists as well. If it is to be a general feral hiver template, the it should also cover those feral tribesmen that live outside the hives as well in the deepest parts of them. And in those deep parts, a water pipe would be a hell of a lot like a stream... just contained in a pipe... maybe. Hell, that's assuming pipes still hold water in those areas and it's not just a wilderness of black caves of ceramacrete and plassteel with no power and actual water supplies flowing further up or in more guarded sectors. It'd be just like any natural cave system except for what it was initially constructed out of. In all, i think the Primitive trait fits them better as opposed to Hive Bound, and limiting the places/times that they could use their bonus basic skills (or the skills once they are trained up) would give them a second negative. All home world origins have, I believe, only one negative.

Edit: On further reflection, actually the negatives to Survival outside of a hive could work. Chance Primitive to Techno-Barbarian. Keep it the same, except exchange the -10 to Tech-Use for -10 to Survival skills outside of a hive and -5 to all Int checks while outside of a hive and that should balance it with the other Origins.

I dont really get the vibe that Ratskins are tech saavy. Perhaps some part of their culture is, like old Wise Women or something. But as far as Braves, Ratskin Warriors, Totem Warriors and what not, I wouldnt see them as such.

I would say Iron Stomach and Primitive from Feral Worlder and Wary and Hive Bound from Hive Worlder.

Characteristics are kind of bugging me. I think they would have decent Agility and Perception, but low Fellowship and either Intelligence or Willpower.

I see the careers as being Scum, Assassin, Cleric (Non-Imperial variety) and Guardsman, with alternate ranks being Brave (1), Scout (2), Ratskin Renegade (2), Badskin (2), Chief (4), Totem Warrior (4) and Spirit Shaman (5).

My initial thought for Ratskin Stats:

High(cheap): Perception, Agility, Toughness

Med: WS, Strength, Intelligence

Low: BS, Willpower, Fellowship

They would be more prone to run and hide than try to fight in most cases and would not have much in the way of ranged weapons, except what they can scavenge.

I would say you would need a separate package for a feral out-hive dweller. The out-hiver is going to be accustomed to nature, such that remains outside a hive, and maybe less tech savvy, to an extent, than a Ratskin. An out-hiver certainly wouldn't have many of the hive worlder bonuses.

There are two physical traits and one psychological trait I can think of that th ratskins exhibit. These follow the rules as given for the gang in necromunda:

www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1330058_Nec_Ratskins.pdf

Resilient

This meant they were harder to kill from serious injuries. Which I think would equate to having T25+2D10 and maybe true grit as a starting trait (and the iron stomach trait). With 15+2D10 WP (due to superstition).

Native

So accustomed to the underhive that they are immune to the effects of Treacherous Conditions. Which I think would equate to Per25+2D10 and maybe a +10 to any test required to travel through treacherous hive areas (only). With 15+2D10 Fel (not friendly people).

Spirit worship

Ignorant of the imperial cult. Worship 'hive' spirits. Certain areas of the hive are holy. -10 to interaction tests with the eccelsiarchy (maybe even make the ecclesiarchy an enemy as they aren't following a 'legal' religious denomonation). Grants one additional unburnable Fate Point to be used only in hives so long as the character has payed obeiscence to the hive spirits. However if they anger the hive spirits (GM discretion but maybe they didn't stop a sacred place getting defiled, didn't honour the spirits of dead animals they killed etc) they are wracked with guilt and must reroll one successful test each session (an anti fate point effectively) until they redeem themselves (GM discretion but should be something more than just praying for forgiveness - the spirits only see actions).

Something like that. Certainly I feel that they should be resilient and perceptive if nothing else.

Hellebore

Hive Mutant from the Radical's Handbook is not a bad starting point for Ratskins. Consider that ratskin gangs in Necromunda could include big hulking muties with harpoon launchers, not as mercenaries, but as gang members. Most mutants are fairly low-key as far as monsterously obvious changes that are impossible to hide at 200 meters are concerned (yes, Slaneeshi tentacle monsters and Khornite razor-porcupines are uncommon).

Edit: Err... I was thinking Skavies for the big harpoon chucking muties. The rest of the point stands.