2 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

The big big difference is Poe tries to keep himself on the table - both with his pilot ability and regen, and these days with Comm Relay/Intensity as well. The more you invest points in something the more you need it to be 1) keeping itself alive, or 2) compressing it's damage output into the early game so it doesn't matter than it dies. Kylo does neither.

Soontir turtled up to stay on the table, Miranda regenerates to stay on the table, Corran regenerates to stay on the table, Poe Dameron regenerates to stay on the table, Norra regenerates to stay on the table, Whisper cloaks and double-focuses to stay on the table. Kylo sits there and takes it, and if he takes it for a couple of turns he's going to die.

No evade. No regen. One focus token his best defense. Dead meat.

Yes.
Unless that hidden Tech upgrade is a veritable meta-defining mechanic the Silencer is slotted to Tier 2.

8 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Both ships have PTL, Autothrusters, 3 green dice, and an additional bit of action economy (FCS vs free Evade). You're paying 11 points for +2 hull (immediately negated by the Inquisitor's Evade tokens), +1 Pilot Skill, +1 red dice at R1.

Again: when you load up Kylo Ren as an ace you get a good ship, nobody is arguing with that. But you paid way too much for it, especially considering how bad it is at defending itself.

I think EPT + system + tech is where it gets funky for this ship. Advanced Sensors and PTL. FCS and Targeting Synchronizer. Evade action EPT and Comm Relay. I think that's where this ships is really going to shine (if it shines).

16 hours ago, The Inquisitor said:

Yeah... but remember this?

Poe's stolen Tie S/F had a Pattern Analyzer

5 hours ago, Mward1984 said:

People are NOT going to avoid attacking Kylo just because they might get ISYTDS like they did with Rebel Captive, because in these circumstances they could easily have a WHOLE activation phase to either get out of arcs, SLAMM or otherwise turtle up.

This is my main frustration with the Silencer. Its very clearly meant to be an "Ace Arc Dogdger" type of ship that doesn't want to get hit, yet Kylo's condition makes it so that he WANTS TO BE HIT.

A good ship can't have it both ways FFG.

17 minutes ago, The Inquisitor said:

I think EPT + system + tech is where it gets funky for this ship. Advanced Sensors and PTL. FCS and Targeting Synchronizer. Evade action EPT and Comm Relay. I think that's where this ships is really going to shine (if it shines).

Except it cant take an evade action... it's like they really really wanted this thip to be bad.

9 minutes ago, Thormind said:

Except it cant take an evade action... it's like they really really wanted this thip to be bad.

I think they didn't want to give it more than 4 actions. It has boost, BR, focus, TL. I don't think there's a ship in the game with more than 4? Seems like a "space on the cardboard" limitation. I suspect the title for the tie advanced prototype gave it the evades for the same reason. Here I guess the title or the EPT are meant to fulfill that role. Or just more HP.

57 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

The big big difference is Poe tries to keep himself on the table - both with his pilot ability and regen, and these days with Comm Relay/Intensity as well. The more you invest points in something the more you need it to be 1) keeping itself alive, or 2) compressing it's damage output into the early game so it doesn't matter than it dies. Kylo does neither.

Soontir turtled up to stay on the table, Miranda regenerates to stay on the table, Corran regenerates to stay on the table, Poe Dameron regenerates to stay on the table, Norra regenerates to stay on the table, Whisper cloaks and double-focuses to stay on the table. Kylo sits there and takes it, and if he takes it for a couple of turns he's going to die.

No evade. No regen. One focus token his best defense. Dead meat.

His ability, PS9, Advance Sensors, Autothrusters, 6 Health, and the title will keep him alive much longer than you think.

2 hours ago, Thormind said:

Because that tech + system slot compensate for the pilot ability... Kylo's ability + tech + system is still inferior to Fenn's ability. Also he might not have those 2 slots but he has access to mindlink wich basically gives him a PTL without the stress and almost garantee him a focus every round no matter what he does (blocked, stressed, overlapped obstacle... no problem).

It's true the Silencer has access to those upgrades but it cost points to add them. If you want to include them, you have to add the points to the ship's cost, which make the difference between the 2 even more ridiculous.

Lastly there are ways to disagree with someone without being disrespectful. "you don't know what youre talking about" is not an argument and does not add anything meaningful to your post outside of showing a propensity for rudeness...

I'm not really someone prone to making bombastic proclamations about stuff. I think my posting history backs that up. When I said "you don't know what you're talking about", I said it because I don't think you understand how different the system and tech slots make the Silencer compared to the protectorate. Yes, you pay points to use those upgrades, but it's a whole different kind of ship.

If you intend not to make use of those slots, them yes, the Silencer is hot garbage for the points, but I'm not blazing any theoretical trails by saying that combining good upgrades is how you make the most out of your points.

43 minutes ago, AngryAlbatross said:

Poe's stolen Tie S/F had a Pattern Analyzer

This is my main frustration with the Silencer. Its very clearly meant to be an "Ace Arc Dogdger" type of ship that doesn't want to get hit, yet Kylo's condition makes it so that he WANTS TO BE HIT.

A good ship can't have it both ways FFG.

It's an arc dodger that doesn't want to be hit. It also has a condition that triggers on being hit. That's not a weakness, it's multiple types of defense. Going all-in on one thing is why Fel has seen reduced use. Killing an arc dodger is like climbing a mountain. Killing Kylo is like climbing a taller, but more gently sloping mountain, with swarms of bees at all the campsites.

15 minutes ago, Tbetts94 said:

His ability, PS9, Advance Sensors, Autothrusters, 6 Health, and the title will keep him alive much longer than you think.

His ability: which does nothing until he gets hit then still does nothing until you synergise with something else and get lucky.

PS9: which is lower than the key threats in the meta at the moment

Autothrusters: which don't help against a lot of the key threats in the meta at the moment

6 health: which is lower than most other ships able to survive in the meta at the moment

Title: which may be worth a hitpoint or two if you're lucky

55 minutes ago, AngryAlbatross said:

Poe's stolen Tie S/F had a Pattern Analyzer

This is my main frustration with the Silencer. Its very clearly meant to be an "Ace Arc Dogdger" type of ship that doesn't want to get hit, yet Kylo's condition makes it so that he WANTS TO BE HIT.

A good ship can't have it both ways FFG.

Have you played Kylo Shuttle before? People straight up refuse to shoot at it unless multiple ships have a shot at it and guarantees to negate the ability as much as possible. Kylo as an Ace makes the platform perfect because only 1 Ship is ever going to have Arc on the guy and it causes a huge downside if he does get a hit through.

Just now, Stay On The Leader said:

His ability: which does nothing until he gets hit then still does nothing until you synergise with something else and get lucky.

PS9: which is lower than the key threats in the meta at the moment

Autothrusters: which don't help against a lot of the key threats in the meta at the moment

6 health: which is lower than most other ships able to survive in the meta at the moment

Title: which may be worth a hitpoint or two if you're lucky

Please try out Kylo Shuttle sometime. His ability is doing something the entire game. It prevents people from shooting at him unless there's multiple guns on him which there ain't going to be because he's an Ace.

We're multiple metas away from this releasing. So its hard to predict. Even then I've played practice games with Kylo and an Interceptor dial and it's a lot easier game with bombs when you have PTL/Adv Sens and can hide behind rocks whenever you like.

Autothrusters helps versus almost EVERY ship in the meta right now. You don't see it because it's on 3-4 hit point Ace platforms. Dash, Dengar, Miranda, Nym, RAC, and about every single competitive list has a turret.

If you wanna keep talking about the current meta, then the title is amazing. The average build right now is 2-3 ships. Super easy to get Arc on only 1 Ship so you have a built in Predator. Plus you get a get out of jail free card with a reroll on a kill shot.

I am not sure if people are remembering that Kylo's pilot ability requires him to be hit to apply the condition ISYTDS. While I think the Silencer is great, Kylo's ability in it is not so great. I am holding out for the PS 7 too, but I really think they dropped the ball on Kylo this wave. He is a better pilot but hasn't learn't anything. Han has 2 versions, Sabine has n versions,( I say n, because we know she will be the first 3 faction pilot and have a card for each ship....), even old Chewie etc etc etc. I really really hope that it will change, but I very much doubt it. My fear is that it will go the way of the Defender, my second favourite Imp ship, will have to wait about 6 waves before a Veterans pack is released to fix it.

***Inconsequential trivia - Interceptor is my favourite Imperial ship.

2 minutes ago, Archangelspiv said:

I am not sure if people are remembering that Kylo's pilot ability requires him to be hit to apply the condition ISYTDS. While I think the Silencer is great, Kylo's ability in it is not so great. I am holding out for the PS 7 too, but I really think they dropped the ball on Kylo this wave. He is a better pilot but hasn't learn't anything. Han has 2 versions, Sabine has n versions,( I say n, because we know she will be the first 3 faction pilot and have a card for each ship....), even old Chewie etc etc etc. I really really hope that it will change, but I very much doubt it. My fear is that it will go the way of the Defender, my second favourite Imp ship, will have to wait about 6 waves before a Veterans pack is released to fix it.

***Inconsequential trivia - Interceptor is my favourite Imperial ship.

Han has a Rebel Version and a Resistance version. Sabine has a Scum and a Rebel version. They have never duplicated a pilot in the same faction and didn't keep the same pilot ability.

Kylo's pilot ability is actually really good. I urge you to try out Kylo Shuttle.

8 minutes ago, Tbetts94 said:

Please try out Kylo Shuttle sometime.

I've played Kylo Shuttle a bunch, thanks. I quite like it, and TBH it's probably better than the Silencer version.

1 minute ago, Stay On The Leader said:

I've played Kylo Shuttle a bunch, thanks. I quite like it, and TBH it's probably better than the Silencer version.

Hahaha yassss..

9 minutes ago, Tbetts94 said:

Han has a Rebel Version and a Resistance version. Sabine has a Scum and a Rebel version. They have never duplicated a pilot in the same faction and didn't keep the same pilot ability.

Kylo's pilot ability is actually really good. I urge you to try out Kylo Shuttle.

The Shuttle Kylo is good, but his ability doesn't suit a small, low health compared to whats about ship. The whole point of an Arc Dodger is not being hit/shot at, to put an ability that requires you to be hit on a ship that doesn't want to be hit is redundant and crazy.

People are giving waaaaaay too much worth to the evade action. The Silencer not having that action does not make or break the ship.

27 minutes ago, Tbetts94 said:

Have you played Kylo Shuttle before? People straight up refuse to shoot at it unless multiple ships have a shot at it and guarantees to negate the ability as much as possible. Kylo as an Ace makes the platform perfect because only 1 Ship is ever going to have Arc on the guy and it causes a huge downside if he does get a hit through.

I have played it a few times. I love the pilot ability in general! I just don't think it synergies well with the "ace" archetype.

7 minutes ago, Archangelspiv said:

The Shuttle Kylo is good, but his ability doesn't suit a small, low health compared to whats about ship. The whole point of an Arc Dodger is not being hit/shot at, to put an ability that requires you to be hit on a ship that doesn't want to be hit is redundant and crazy.

The point of the ability is that it gives an opponent a negative to trying to hit him. Kylo's going to dodge Arcs. But the time he doesn't dodge that one Arc the opponent has to really think about actually shooting him. Kylo has the ability to manipulate autothrusters to force the condition on the opponent.

7 minutes ago, Derpzilla88 said:

People are giving waaaaaay too much worth to the evade action. The Silencer not having that action does not make or break the ship.

Makes or breaks it as an 'ace' I think.

13 minutes ago, Derpzilla88 said:

People are giving waaaaaay too much worth to the evade action. The Silencer not having that action does not make or break the ship.

This thread reminds me of when the Protectorate first came out and people were saying how it sucks because why would you ever put a ship Range 1 in Arc of another ship? Or when the Special Forces came out and people said how it was dead on arrival, but people like Marcel made cuts with them without LWF in the list. Everything sucks unless it's broken right out of the box.

I've said before, and I'll keep saying it.

Keep Kylo's cost under 40pts and you may have something. But if you load that boy up with all the toys then you're making him worse and worse.

13 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Makes or breaks it as an 'ace' I think.

Using an action to block one damage on a single attack isn't worth much these days. Better to use those actions for offense anyways.

18 hours ago, Biophysical said:

EPT+Tech+System+Autothrusters+6 HP is a significant combination.

I feel like this ship is a Defender, at a discount, with a better upgrade bar, with the dial of an Interceptor.

The Silencer looks _nuts_ in the best way. I don't see the problem.

1 hour ago, Archangelspiv said:

He is a better pilot but hasn't learn't anything.

Last jedi spoilers, ladies and gents