You guys are all forgetting that the base is what determines the squad type, not the miniatures. TIE/FO sculps may be identical to TIE/LN ones, but if the base has a different icon, it's a different kind of fighter regardless of what it looks like.

The X-Wing is also pretty distinct enough that they won't be re-using the T-65. The wings are roughly half the bulk of the miniature, and the wings are split differently on the '70 than on the '65. It will be different.

We have precedent with the First Order and Resistance being tied to the Empire and Rebellion respectively, there is no reason to think Armada would be otherwise. As well, there is no reason to think FFG/LFL will veer sharply to another direction and choose a legends faction when current canon is up and coming and generating new things. FFG/LFL will only likely consider legends craft when they've run out of canonical stuff to present... which is why in X-Wing the Empire's saddled with utterly uninspired designs (TIE Interdictor, TIE Aggressor) in the space where isn't enough Imperial craft to introduce. At least the Gunboat got in before the TIE Oppressor...

Unlike X-Wing with the offerings of the bounty hunter craft, there are no distinct large stand-out space vehicles that have captured the imagination as much as the Bounty Hunters and Bobba Fett. Certainly not enough to open the door to being a sustainable faction in the future. Plus, as X-Wing shows, going that way will wildly affect balance.

No, but there is a whole section of the regulations devoted to reminding people they cannot have models that would cause confusion or mid identification - even though as you say, the base is what is important

30 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

No, but there is a whole section of the regulations devoted to reminding people they cannot have models that would cause confusion or mid identification - even though as you say, the base is what is important

Well then, just force everyone to paint their fighters so they can be easily identified. <Sarcasm>

On 9/14/2017 at 6:32 AM, schmidty1701 said:

Exactly. While I don't approve of the First Order having larger ships (they're supposed to be a remnant of the Empire, not better) technology does advance, things, like reactors, get bigger, which means more power. A bigger reactor needs more space, therefore bigger ships.

I disagree. Edisons light bulb was the size of a human head. Now, I have an LED that is smaller than a pin head.

CPU's used to be the size of nintendo cartridges, now I can get a whole PC the size of a quarter. I don't think the size goes up sue to innovation.

Also, to Truthi's point, the "big" factor is usually for intimidation, not function. At least in the US military....lol.

1 hour ago, moodswing5537 said:

I disagree. Edisons light bulb was the size of a human head. Now, I have an LED that is smaller than a pin head.

CPU's used to be the size of nintendo cartridges, now I can get a whole PC the size of a quarter. I don't think the size goes up sue to innovation.

Also, to Truthi's point, the "big" factor is usually for intimidation, not function. At least in the US military....lol.

Well, as technology advanced from 1850 to 1950 - battleships got larger and larger.

The increased capability of weapons required more armor. Bigger engines were required for the power to support the armor and weapons. More space was required for the thousands of crew that manned the vessel.

Same kind of thing has happened with tank technology. As we have gotten better at making tanks they have gotten larger and more powerful.

Sometimes advances in wartime tech result in increase in size, even as there is miniaturization in other arenas.

I really hope FFG resorts to prequel ships first....

Once TLJ comes out I'll find out if I'd even consider buying stuff from the new trilogy.

1 hour ago, Democratus said:

Well, as technology advanced from 1850 to 1950 - battleships got larger and larger.

The increased capability of weapons required more armor. Bigger engines were required for the power to support the armor and weapons. More space was required for the thousands of crew that manned the vessel.

Same kind of thing has happened with tank technology. As we have gotten better at making tanks they have gotten larger and more powerful.

Sometimes advances in wartime tech result in increase in size, even as there is miniaturization in other arenas.

point taken.

5 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

No, but there is a whole section of the regulations devoted to reminding people they cannot have models that would cause confusion or mid identification - even though as you say, the base is what is important

But that's such a small thing (no pun intended), it's not enough to hold back the stem of releases possible out of Sequel saga. Either a distinct miniature will be molded (like a small antenna by the cockpit for Comms relay, struts on the inside of the TIE Wing) or an exception will be added to the tournament rules allowing two craft to be represented by one miniature.

Come to think of it... we have that now with variants, after all. ISDs now have four different bases to choose from and really only one (or two depending on how it is painted) models to represent them. Is it right to get mad/confused at a player who is using a Chimaera model for an ISD-I base? It's the same model, different base.

2 hours ago, Democratus said:

Well, as technology advanced from 1850 to 1950 - battleships got larger and larger.

The increased capability of weapons required more armor. Bigger engines were required for the power to support the armor and weapons. More space was required for the thousands of crew that manned the vessel.

Same kind of thing has happened with tank technology. As we have gotten better at making tanks they have gotten larger and more powerful.

Sometimes advances in wartime tech result in increase in size, even as there is miniaturization in other arenas.

Not really for tanks.

Tiger II vs M1 Abrams. Basically same weight, abrams is 2 ft longer, same width, and the abrams is a good 2 foot shorter. Yet the abrams is faster, better armored, has a better gun and aiming ability.

There is also a big push right now from many countries to produce smaller tanks. Bigger causes all kinds of problems. And as gun and armor technology advance, smaller, lighter formats become more dominant.

Battleships sure jumped in size, but then it was determined that they were too big and ineffective. Smaller ships could perform all the same functions but more effectively and battleships declined in use. Tech when it comes to weapons tends to go in a pretty predictable curve. When the tech is first developed, size becomes a dominant issue. More armor, bigger guns, more guns, bigger engines, etc. Eventually a maximum reasonable size is reached. Then efforts are made to improve things without growing in size, or even to shrink the existing size while maintaining performance.

On 9/15/2017 at 2:42 PM, kmanweiss said:

Not really for tanks.

Tiger II vs M1 Abrams. Basically same weight, abrams is 2 ft longer, same width, and the abrams is a good 2 foot shorter. Yet the abrams is faster, better armored, has a better gun and aiming ability.

Hence why I capped my statement at 1950.

The star wars universe is in a time period where things are getting bigger. This isn't "unrealistic" because the same has happened in our world with both battleships and tanks.

Another great example is aircraft carriers (most capital ships are in Star Wars) which are massive today, despite advances in technology.

On 9/15/2017 at 10:26 AM, GrandAdmiralCrunch said:

Well then, just force everyone to paint their fighters so they can be easily identified. <Sarcasm>

I think you mean Warhammer.

I'd say no to Sub-Factions. Like in X-Wing, the Resistance should be Rebels and the First Order should be Empire.

I'm divided over whether or not I'd want to start collecting Sequel Era. Mostly because I like the look of the GCW ships.

Having picked up the cross sections book, the Resurgent Class looks a lot more awesome than other images of the ship suggest. I've also seen recently that there's now three named Resurgent Class ships, so it's possible that we'd see a release from FFG. I'd prefer it got a release alongside the Raddus for the Resistance. Give each faction an Epic at the same time. There's then the Starhawk and the First Order ship from the Poe Dameron comic (not the Carrion Spike). We then have the squadrons, which could be split to a First Order and Resistance squadron pack. Perhaps spread them between two packs, with one having the transports, Upsilon and Rey Falcon.

I'm not going to deny, I'm procrastinating a little in collecting more Armada because I'd like to see a Sequel Era release. My final decision determined by what the models look like and what they bring to the game.

On 15/09/2017 at 6:23 PM, JJs Juggernaut said:

I really hope FFG resorts to prequel ships first....

Once TLJ comes out I'll find out if I'd even consider buying stuff from the new trilogy.

If these existing games XW, Armada and IA are to survive they must embrace the sequel trilogy (XW already has to a degree). These games partially act as a marketing tool for the new movies and Lucasfilm is trying hard to ignore the existance of the prequels. On that basis, you might get an occasional prequel ship or small expansion as a Reb or Imp refit, but that's all.

New stuff for all games will have to focus on the new movies (inc Han Solo movie etc).

The prequels were OK, had some decent set pieces and was an interesting overall story (especially Palpatine's rise to power), but certain individual plots, scripts and characters are just plain bland and awful and the acting gradually got worse (apart from Mr McDiarmid).

1 minute ago, Gallanteer said:

If these existing games XW, Armada and IA must embrace the sequel trilogy (XW already has to a degree). These games partially act as a marketing tool for the new movies and Lucasfilm is trying hard to ignore the existance of the prequels. On that basis, you might get an occasional prequel ship or small expansion as a Reb or Imp refit, but that's all.

New stuff for all games will have to focus on the new movies (inc Han Solo movie etc).

The prequels were OK, had some decent set pieces and was an interesting overall story (especially Palpatine's rise to power), but certain individual plots, scripts and characters are just plain bland and awful and the acting gradually got worse (apart from Mr McDiarmid).

I agree. I don't want a full prequel era part of Armada. I wouldn't mind ships appearing as refits though, like an Imperial refit Venator, or a Rebel refit Providence class (they had at least one in Legends). I can see the Venator coming, but the Rebels would most likely get some Mon Calamari ship.

On 15/09/2017 at 5:52 PM, Democratus said:

Same kind of thing has happened with tank technology. As we have gotten better at making tanks they have gotten larger and more powerful.

V

got better... got smaller!

(both are british army infantry support tanks less than 20 years apart)

1 hour ago, Ghost Mouse said:

I'd say no to Sub-Factions. Like in X-Wing, the Resistance should be Rebels and the First Order should be Empire.

Interesting you say that.

Because, in XWing, sub factions is EXACTLY what they are.

1 minute ago, Drasnighta said:

Interesting you say that.

Because, in XWing, sub factions is EXACTLY what they are.

Interesting you say that.

Because I've only ever seen them referred to as Empire and Rebel.

Well shut my mouth and call me a numpty.....

I'd say yes to Sub-Factions. Like in X-Wing.

Nobody will notice

Its fine. People always seem surprised when I know X-Wing Rules almost as well as Armada Rules, even though I don't play X-Wing.

34 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Its fine. People always seem surprised when I know X-Wing Rules almost as well as Armada Rules, even though I don't play X-Wing.

I gotta admit knowing that you don't play X-Wing, it makes me grin when I see how often you post in their rules forum

On 9/20/2017 at 7:15 AM, slasher956 said:

V

got better... got smaller!

(both are british army infantry support tanks less than 20 years apart)

Doesn't mean that tank designs didn't get larger all the way up till 1945.

@Democratus - didnt think that was a production tank? .... but point proven on one offs (& Hitlers meglomania) ....

shame the RSD isnt :\

35 minutes ago, slasher956 said:

@Democratus - didnt think that was a production tank? .... but point proven on one offs (& Hitlers meglomania) ....

shame the RSD isnt :\

It was a production tank that managed to produce 2 models before the war ended. There was also this french tank:

Another example of a huge mass-produced tank would be the US Pershing (41 tons).

The Russian KV-2

On 9/20/2017 at 8:00 AM, Gallanteer said:

If these existing games XW, Armada and IA are to survive they must embrace the sequel trilogy (XW already has to a degree). These games partially act as a marketing tool for the new movies and Lucasfilm is trying hard to ignore the existance of the prequels. On that basis, you might get an occasional prequel ship or small expansion as a Reb or Imp refit, but that's all.

New stuff for all games will have to focus on the new movies (inc Han Solo movie etc).

The prequels were OK, had some decent set pieces and was an interesting overall story (especially Palpatine's rise to power), but certain individual plots, scripts and characters are just plain bland and awful and the acting gradually got worse (apart from Mr McDiarmid).

Not sure I can agree that the sequel era ships are the only way Armada survives. X-WING, maybe, but the target audience is not the same. Armada is an expensive table top, Miniatures war game, on par with the civil war, WW1, WW2 Miniature games of 30 years ago. The price point is awfully high for the target audience of the sequel era films, Armada is aimed at the original trilogy fan base for a very good reason. They have far more disposable income.

While I expect we will get some sequel ships eventually, I expect the focus of Armada to remain fixed firmly in the Original trilogy era, that is where the money is at the moment.

8 hours ago, cynanbloodbane said:

Not sure I can agree that the sequel era ships are the only way Armada survives. X-WING, maybe, but the target audience is not the same. Armada is an expensive table top, Miniatures war game, on par with the civil war, WW1, WW2 Miniature games of 30 years ago. The price point is awfully high for the target audience of the sequel era films, Armada is aimed at the original trilogy fan base for a very good reason. They have far more disposable income.

While I expect we will get some sequel ships eventually, I expect the focus of Armada to remain fixed firmly in the Original trilogy era, that is where the money is at the moment.

I concur, I think we will see PT too at some point. Seeing that those who grew up with them are now hitting the econimic stride. I would sespect though not untill the TLJ ships make a splash. Disney will want their monies worth and will shurely push their new stuff before the older stuff.

"Darth Mouse" will have to forgive me for this but they need to open their eyes and see how much money they are leaving on the table by not doing CW Era . there are multiple waves worth of ships that could be released.

As for episode 7 and beyond. whether you like it or don't sooner or later Darth Mouse will be producing them for your pleasure (or torment). I hope they will flesh out the FO era more before this happens.

in the mean time FFG could ( and I believe should) be looking for other settings ( WWI & II ,modern and age of sail naval games. other space settings like Halo, BSG, B 5, Twilight Imperium or a setting created from scratch).