1 minute ago, Drasnighta said:Then how do you propose to solve Blail's question, then, when they are fundamentally the same unpainted model at scale ?
Different color plastics. We're already accustomed to that abstraction. Red for FO blue for resistance/new republic.
2 minutes ago, schmidty1701 said:I disagree. If you can have the different TIEs or a T-70 and T-65 in the same squad in X wing, then it must be allowed in Armada.
I don't care about X-Wing in the slightest. I'm offer the practical solution for the game I love.
4 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:At which point, why sub-faction at all?
If we're going to specify what can and can't be used in each fleet at the same time, then just dictate a straight faction list.
Because the squadrons are the only problem. We've already seen both the FO and Resistance using the GCW ships. That's as easy as releasing refit cards and cardboard. I'd be fine with the T-65 and T-70 in the same list if it can be done with practicality. I just don't see a way to do it in a practical way.
4 minutes ago, schmidty1701 said:I disagree. If you can have the different TIEs or a T-70 and T-65 in the same squad in X wing, then it must be allowed in Armada.
No such logic: Armada and Xwing could be different in requiring sub factions to not co-mingle. Frankly it would be fun to have 3x2 factions. Idk if they NEED to be paired against each other but. Clone War era, Civil War era, "make it humongous" era.
Just now, FoaS said:Different color plastics. We're already accustomed to that abstraction. Red for FO blue for resistance/new republic.
I mean, I guess its a possibility... Just a jarring one...
Since, I mean, as it is, any ships capable of being used in these sub-factions are eitehr going to retain their normal base plates, or will require different base plates, which might change their colouring too...
3 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:Then how do you propose to solve Blail's question, then, when they are fundamentally the same unpainted model at scale ?
Have First Order stuff be light Gray, and resistance stuff be pure white.
1 minute ago, FoaS said:Different color plastics. We're already accustomed to that abstraction. Red for FO blue for resistance/new republic.
Devil's advocate. What if I'm a bad painter and I paint all my squadrons one drab overcoat. Say... black??? =)
All my rebels are black too? *theyre not, I swear.
Also: I am not fundamentally opposed to additional factions or sub-factions or anything like that... I don't care where new content comes from.
I just want new game content to be meaningful to the game itself.
What they could do is create different bases, or colored cardboard toppers. Or different colored or designed plastic trees for the squadrons.
Or... just make the factions non-mixable.
I'd rather see armada focus on galactic empire as it's time setting even if that does mean we get reprints with new upgrades. However we have seenteh FFg are happy to come up with their own designs for ships so I don't see a reason why they need to go into another time setting where the ships are just stupidly big.
However we're FFG to release a sub game using the same rule set set in the time frame for Star Wars 7-9 I wouldn't be opposed. But at the moment we havnt seen enough of the resistance to assume they have anything more than the Radus in their fleet.
1 minute ago, Blail Blerg said:What they could do is create different bases, or colored cardboard toppers. Or different colored or designed plastic trees for the squadrons.
Or... just make the factions non-mixable.
You can't make them non-mixable, as the First Order used Imperial ships, and the Resistance used Rebel ships.
7 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:Imo, the design of the new ships isn't bad. The finalizer, the big absurd wing thingie for the FO, Starkiller base. These are all decent artistic designs...
Its the stupid "make it ginormous!!!!!11431!!" that pisses me off. (And then blowing it up super easily all in one movie).
*ducks
generally agree. i like the finalizer and the flying wing, just stupidly sized(though the finalizers size isn't THAT stupid, SSD's exist FFS)
3 minutes ago, Kalic89 said:However we have seenteh FFg are happy to come up with their own designs for ships so I don't see a reason why they need to go into another time setting where the ships are just stupidly big.
That was pre-Disney. Keep in mind Disney now has to approve the releases and they've increased the scrutiny. That's why you'll never see Clone Wars stuff in the near future.
1 minute ago, dominosfleet said:generally agree. i like the finalizer and the flying wing, just stupidly sized(though the finalizers size isn't THAT stupid, SSD's exist FFS)
Actually, I find Finalizer to be fine. Though... I would have been MUCH more impressed if ep7 bad guys were much more nuanced than just. MUST COMPENSATE FOR EVERYTHING, MAKE IT BIGGER, FEAR ME RAWRAWRAWR. Imagine. What if the Finalizer had been smaller? What if it had been old? What if they had to use lots of depreciated parts and less than ideal conditions. What if there were motivations and limitations? What if they had heard of the tragedy of Darth plageuis the wise?
2 minutes ago, Truthiness said:That was pre-Disney. Keep in mind Disney now has to approve the releases and they've increased the scrutiny. That's why you'll never see Clone Wars stuff in the near future.
Likewise, they would approve of Resistance and First Order expansions because it makes them more money, in the sense that, since the sequels are making money, so would items for a game that are from the sequels.
Edited by schmidty17013 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:Actually, I find Finalizer to be fine. Though... I would have been MUCH more impressed if ep7 bad guys were much more nuanced than just. MUST COMPENSATE FOR EVERYTHING, MAKE IT BIGGER, FEAR ME RAWRAWRAWR. Imagine. What if the Finalizer had been smaller? What if it had been old? What if they had to use lots of depreciated parts and less than ideal conditions. What if there were motivations and limitations? What if they had heard of the tragedy of Darth plageuis the wise?
Exactly. In Legends, the Imperial Remnent struggled to keep 200 ISDs opperational, whereas the First Order can just whip up a whole new ship.
I think the best way to handle the ever-increasing size of these ships is to make the FO/Resistance ships on a different scale than the rest of Armada. Once the two are no longer compatable on the table together, FFG would also be free to tweak the rules to make it a better fit for the sequel trilogy, if that is needed for some reason.
The biggest problem that I see with that is it essentially puts FFG in competition with itself for your Armada dollars.
2 minutes ago, schmidty1701 said:Exactly. In Legends, the Imperial Remnent struggled to keep 200 ISDs opperational, whereas the First Order can just whip up a whole new ship.
they can whip up a yuuuuuuuuuuge ship
Remember that Epic ships exist in X wing. Those are huge compared to the Fighters. I don't think adding the Resurgent class or the Raddus would be much of a problem production wise. It's where it gets to gameplay that problems would arise. I'm am almost certain these ships would not be tournament legal, or if they were, there would be an increase on points from 400 to at least 500, if not more.
I don't see why people would have trouble telling the new squadrons from the old just because the unpainted models look the same. They would have different dials and cards and should be no harder to differentiate from each other than it is to tell the uniques from the generics.
2 minutes ago, Megatronrex said:I don't see why people would have trouble telling the new squadrons from the old just because the unpainted models look the same. They would have different dials and cards and should be no harder to differentiate from each other than it is to tell the uniques from the generics.
Its just adding complexity that's uneccessary.
People already make complaints about 3 types of TIE Fighters: Generic, Unique, and the Corellian Conflict variations - especially since the only marking difference on the CC version is the difference in keywords...
It shouldn't be a problem, as far as the rules are concerned, its not a problem...
... But people already complain about it...
7 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:Its just adding complexity that's uneccessary.
People already make complaints about 3 types of TIE Fighters: Generic, Unique, and the Corellian Conflict variations - especially since the only marking difference on the CC version is the difference in keywords...
It shouldn't be a problem, as far as the rules are concerned, its not a problem...
... But people already complain about it...
Well then those complainers should commission you to paint their models so that they can be easily identified.
If only that could be included on the parts-list sheet in the box.
1 hour ago, schmidty1701 said:I'm not very interested in prequel factions (I have nothing against them, I love them in fact, I just don't think it could work for Armada), but I would love to see some kind of scum-like faction appear.
The overpowered Scum and Villiany faction ruined X Wing IMO, turning it into a generic space game that often looks very nice but, in the eyes of a member of the general public, has little or no obvious connection to Star Wars. Why have an X-wing when you can have the latest obscure S + V ship with its uber abilities? I think an S + V faction would be the absolute worse thing that could happen to Armada.
First Order Vs Resistance I'd have no problem with but if we go down that route let's not have mixing of factions a la X-Wing. I know it's not earth shattering as none of them actually existed in real life but Vader flying with First Order TIE fighters for wingmen when he's been dead 40 years or so??? A geriatric Howlrunner trading in her pension for a TIE fighter to have a crack at that young upstart Poe Dameron????
Let's keep it at least vaguely sensible eh.
Edited by Bolshevik65Honestly, I think I would be perfectly fine with just completely separate factions. It would help ensure there are less things to balance. You don't have to worry about Poe alongside Wedge or Yavaris. You wouldn't have to worry about Kylo and the many faces of Vader.
My only worry was having to start from scratch with ships. However, my suggestion of having FO and Resistance refits would work just the same. We know the MC80 is still in service, as is the ISD. You can make out the distinctive outline of the Nebulon in TFA when they nuked the Republic capital. Throw a campaign pack out with a bunch of refits and bam, you've got yourself FO/Resistance stand alone factions.
Consider me onboard the separate factions train.
Edited by Truthiness11 minutes ago, Truthiness said:Honestly, I think I would be perfectly fine with just completely separate factions. It would help ensure there are less things to balance. You don't have to worry about Poe alongside Wedge or Yavaris. You wouldn't have to worry about Kylo and the many faces of Vader.
My only worry was having to start from scratch with ships. However, my suggestion of having FO and Resistance refits would work just the same. We know the MC80 is still in service, as is the ISD. You can make out the distinctive outline of the Nebulon in TFA when they nuked the Republic capital. Throw a campaign pack out with a bunch of refits and bam, you've got yourself FO/Resistance stand alone factions.
Consider me onboard the separate factions train.
So would the theory then be that your TIE Fighter stands could still be TIE Fighters or TIE/sf fighters, and your Interceptors Silencers (bit more of a stretch), but telling them apart is a matter of knowing that your opponent is the First Order rather than the Empire?