Have FFG said anything officially about the use of dials to record honour instead of flooding the table with tokens.

I've seen contradictory statements for and against whether they were allowed at Gencon.

FFG floor rules apparently block the use of dials and dice due to the risk of accidental (or otherwise) adjustment.. There was a thread a few weeks back that went into this in detail.

Well just boo I say

I'd seen at least one comment that FFG had relented and allowed them at Gencon.

But seriously, it's as easy to palm tokens as it is to nudge dials or dice, but if that's the rule, that's fine.
I'll keep my dial for casual play. To keep tokens in check, I may grab some spare lego. A baseplate to fix single stud bricks to would be fun. And of course I'd need a minifig samurai as a mascot if I do that

The problem is, from across the table, a pile of 10 honor tokens looks objectively different than a pile of 12 or 13 honor tokens.

Whereas a dial that reads 10 and a dial that reads 13 look exactly the same at a glance.

Honor tokens can be palmed, but this restriction wasn't really meant to prevent cheating, it was meant to prevent accidental adjustment.

If you accidentally knock over a stack of honor tokens, the honor tokens are all still there, so it didn't change. If you accidentally swipe the dial in some way, who knows what your honor was, especially since your opponent couldn't easily track it through the course of the game (as many dials you can't see the number unless you're above it, rather than across from it).

It's also harder to palm tokens in a non-noticeable way, whereas manipulating a dial could be extremely easy.

I agree that having a ton of tokens all over the place sucks, but it's the way they want it done, unfortunately.

I thought the solution they provided at Gencon to the Lion Clan players (reward for most honorable clan) was very nice. Honor tokens that were worth 5 honor. That made it much easier to have 11 honor on the table, only 3 tokens. I wish they did that with the core set honor tokens.

Yeah, they provide tokens with values over 1 (usually 3 or 5) for many of their games, so they could have done so for L5R.

Honestly, there should be an option to just ignore honor tokens and go pen and paper. Its perfect tracking of changes for both opponents for minimal upkeep. Is there any rule preventing me from using paper to track both my own and my opponents honor?

FFG don't allow any note taking during games

6 minutes ago, Poi68 said:

FFG don't allow any note taking during games

Eww..... so I have to rely on my opponent not letting his counters and tokens getting cluttered, yay...

We used honor counters all through the O5R days just fine.

If FFG says tokens only, then whatever, rules are rules. But I don't know that either method of tracking honor is objectively better than the other.

Short answer is they have floor rules against stuff that are not bump proof, and are easily seen. Dice are not bump proof. The old Flying Tricycle counters are neither of those. They move too easily and are impossible to read without effort. I personally don't really like tokens for honor either, thus why I keep considering an electronic or mechanical method. A few people on discord have some other ideas, like having a tray with 5 honor tall slots the size of the honor tokens, so it is a lot easier to determine the amount.

I did play against one person at Gencon who had a dial from another game (Which I can't remember for the life of me), that was a big cardboard thing, like the honor dials, but had a 10s and 1s place, and was entirely legible from a distance. I think that would be fine.

I had some ideas of a revamp of the flying tricycle idea that has larger numbers (Only need 1-24 vs -19-40), and has some form of mechanical stop to prevent bumping. However, I haven't tried making it yet, and I'm sure there is something in the design I've missed.

3 minutes ago, Mirith said:

I did play against one person at Gencon who had a dial from another game (Which I can't remember for the life of me), that was a big cardboard thing, like the honor dials, but had a 10s and 1s place, and was entirely legible from a distance. I think that would be fine.

Was it the fan counter from Bloodbowl?

23 minutes ago, Suzume Tomonori said:

Was it the fan counter from Bloodbowl?

Maybe? Quick search didn't reveal it, but it was from that sort of game (He told me, but I don't remember now). 2 dials next to each other 0-9.

Could also be a threat counter from LotR.

Imperial Assault dial maybe?

5 minutes ago, Khudzlin said:

Could also be a threat counter from LotR.

Yes, that was it. Warhammer, Lord of the Rings, same thing.

But I think anything like that is fine, as it is hard to bump and is pretty clear from a distance.

For casual games, I'm using the CCG HonorBox app. Helps that the Crane Stronghold art from Ivory is the same as Shizuka Toshi.

2 hours ago, Mirith said:

Dice are not bump proof. The old Flying Tricycle counters are neither of those. They move too easily and are impossible to read without effort.

For tournaments in CCG i was using mostly this Stronghold counters. They were 100% bump proof and were much more readable than Flying Tricycle ones. Of course all you had to do to inform your opponent that one number is missing there.

33 minutes ago, kempy said:

For tournaments in CCG i was using mostly this Stronghold counters. They were 100 bump proof and were much more readable than Flying Tricycle ones. Of course all you had to do to inform your opponent that one number is missing there.

Yeah, I think that works. I was looking at making these for honor dials and as a counter, though I don't think I have the right tools.

I was thinking about what type of honor dial would be stable and easy to read. I like the idea of using a numeric honor dial rather than tokens. Tokens, while safe from bumping, are not always legible. Some opponents just pile them up, and you don't know exactly how much honor they have when its a pile of 15+

I have an idea of a design that would be both stable AND easily read from both perspectives (you don't have to look top down, but can see from the side.) I've got a pair of friends who work with fabrication. I'm going to have them make up a prototype and if ppl like it we can look at a bigger production. I'm not looking to get in the business lol, but I would much prefer a dial if it was both stable and readable.

I was thinking about using stacks of poker chips. Large enough to read at a distance, and not easily bumped.

20 hours ago, DoubleD86 said:

I was thinking about using stacks of poker chips. Large enough to read at a distance, and not easily bumped.

A stack of anything has an issue, either the default tokens or poker chips. Once you get past about 6 or 7, I know that I can't really "glance" at a stack/pile/etc of chips and know how many are in it unless they are well organized into groups. Even then, in stack for, I could see having trouble easily differentiating between 4 and 5.

Apparent FFG is unaware that they produce the "Star Wars LCG" and that the store tournament prize this past season for first and second place is a slippery plastic Death Star dial.

I magnetized my Flying Tricycle honor counter. I could toss it across the room and it would not lose track of the number it was set to and still rotated freely to be changed. Love me some neodymium magnets.

Same magnets as used on the cph-laser dials