Played a really close game on Vassal an hour ago or so. After the game we got into a (friendly) discussion about who actually had the harder matchup. I would just like to know what list you would put your money on in a game between the following:

List 1

Black Squadron Pilot (14)
Crack Shot (1)

Black Squadron Pilot (14)
Crack Shot (1)

"Howlrunner" (18)
Crack Shot (1)

Black Squadron Pilot (14)
Crack Shot (1)

Academy Pilot (12)

Academy Pilot (12)

Academy Pilot (12)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

List 2:

Captain Nym (Rebel) (30)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Bomblet Generator (3)
Advanced Sensors (3)
"Genius" (0)
Engine Upgrade (4)
Havoc (0)

Miranda Doni (29)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Extra Munitions (2)
Sabine Wren (2)
Conner Net (4)
Cluster Mines (4)
Ion Bombs (2)
Advanced SLAM (2)

Total: 98

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Thanks!

Miranda/Nym

Between higher PS and barrel roll/boost and Adv SLAM, you should be able to adjust out of arcs, with turrets vs arcs, they need to chase and you have bombs + Sabine for that, plus 2 TLT's erase Howlrunner on the first turn of combat.

Same person piloting both is list number 2. Always?

Let guess, the ties won because bumps.

Nym/Miranda won it. I was flying the ties. Game ended with me conceding. At that point I had one tie at 2 hull. He had Nym at 3 hull.

A game like that ought to be close, both lists have distinct advantages and disadvantages against one another, but I would think Miranda Nym has the easier go of it with their ability to reposition. It's sort of on the Miranda/Nym player to allow the swarm to win by making a suboptimal choice occasionally.

Give Miranda two sets of proton bombs and you've already won. Nym is just icing on the cake.

Nym/Miranda with the loss of one ship.

Nym and Miranda.

Swarms are awesome...except bombs... and the ships that flat out outfly them.

You have allot of red dice to take out nym or myranda quickly it really comes down to flying.

If the Swarm player can get one of the ships in most of his arcs for the first round of combat it's going to go well, if not it's not going to go as well.

3 hours ago, kris40k said:

Miranda/Nym

Between higher PS and barrel roll/boost and Adv SLAM, you should be able to adjust out of arcs, with turrets vs arcs, they need to chase and you have bombs + Sabine for that, plus 2 TLT's erase Howlrunner on the first turn of combat.

And no 2x tlt's do not erase Howlrunner on the first round of combat especially if they are barrel rolling / boosting with their actions. Odds are howlrunners evade or focus removes 1 of the four tlt attacks then they have to get damage through on all 3 of the other shots that not that great of odds (3 naked vs 3 naked is what about %60 chance to hit... so you need 3x 60% to go your way of the 3x shots you have left) now this all gets much worse for howl if the other ships have mods but then they are not arc dodging so that's good. It's possible howl goes down in the first round of shooting but not "erase" level of possible.

Anyways if the swarm player flies really well then they have a good shot at winning, both of those ships are susceptible to 2red dice nuking them down.

53 minutes ago, Icelom said:

It's possible howl goes down in the first round of shooting but not "erase" level of possible.

I wasn't aware that it must meet a predetermined percentage to use the term "erase". Miranda won't be shooting if she had to SLAM, so considering her shooting, it means she likely has a Focus token. Nym shoots first, so considering a untokened Nym missing once due to Howl's chosen Evade or Focus token, Miranda will likely hit once with 3 + Focus vs 3 naked greens, so you basically have two coinflips if Miranda doesn't dump a shield for a 4th die.

It is very possible that Howl doesn't survive the 1st round of combat.

36 minutes ago, kris40k said:

I wasn't aware that it must meet a predetermined percentage to use the term "erase". Miranda won't be shooting if she had to SLAM, so considering her shooting, it means she likely has a Focus token. Nym shoots first, so considering a untokened Nym missing once due to Howl's chosen Evade or Focus token, Miranda will likely hit once with 3 + Focus vs 3 naked greens, so you basically have two coinflips if Miranda doesn't dump a shield for a 4th die.

It is very possible that Howl doesn't survive the 1st round of combat.

And if mirranda does not slam even if howl does go down its very possible mirranda is gone in the first round as well... that is a great trade.

I'm so glad you flew the swarm!

Last night I did some solo practice, flying a very similar swarm against Nym Dengar. I am an avid swarm flyer, but I haven't gone toe to toe with a 2 ship nym list yet and I wanted to try it out. Granted, flying against yourself isn't the real thing, but it definitely helps gauge who the matchup favors. My TIE swarm was:

Howlrunner - Adaptability +1: 18

Black - Draw Their Fire: 15

Black - Swarm Leader: 17

Wampa: 14

AP: 12

AP:12

AP:12

Flying it for the first time, I can say without hesitation that Nymgar is stupidly easy to fly. Even though I was flying against myself, it always felt like an uphill battle for the swarm. I thought that this swarm list would hit harder and mess with targeting priority, but I need to practice it a lot more before it can be even close to an even matchup for Nymgar. Nym was taken down to 3 hull remaining, but Dengar was barely scratched. In the first engagement I lost 2 TIEs, including the squad leader TIE, before they could shoot. In return, I took all of Nym's shields down. However, in the 2 turns following that Nym just bomblet'd everything to death. By turn 5 or 6 I was left with one AP at 2 hull, and Howlrunner at 1.

It's not all doom and gloom though, because I learned some valuable lessons!

1. If you're flying a swarm against Nym, you have to try to get your first engagement at range 1-2. If you engage at R3, your whole squad is likely eating a bomblet next turn. If you engage outside of bomblet range and scatter the next turn, you can avoid the damage with most of your ships.
2. Engage and then disengage! Getting into a knife fight with Nym just made my fragile little TIEs pop like the space bubbles they are. There was one turn he hit 4 of my ships with a bomblet, and did something like 6 damage total.
3. Spread out! Like the points above, it is all about not getting a bunch of your ships hit by a bomblet. Spread out and make him choose to drop the bomb before the move to hit a ship, or with genius to hit a ship, not more than one victim at a time!
4. Bumping isn't always good. I bumped Nym in the initial engagement because my swarm mind tells me that blocked ships are dead ships. However, in this case that ship and the two next to it ready to take R1 shots on a blocked ship ate a bunch of damage from the genius drop. Dengar then finished off one that had a nice R1 shot, and with that a lot of my offense was dropped.

So, in response to the OP, if the players are of equal skill, or even minorly in favor of the swarm player, I still put my money on the Nym list, whether it is Miranda or Dengar flying with him.

3 minutes ago, Icelom said:

And if mirranda does not slam even if howl does go down its very possible mirranda is gone in the first round as well... that is a great trade.

Which is unlikely to happen as you know where the Black/Academies are, and Howl is keeping formation with them, so you simply SLAM out of arcs and bomb and shoot later at your leisure.

It really is Nym/Miranda's game to lose.