Hi, it is about the weapon ability "concussive", like in the dragit-crytsals as option. From what I read if you get hit with a weapon with this ability, you are unable to perform an action for the number of rounds of the concussion value. To put it straight, if I am hit with this modified lightsaber with "concussion 2" I can not attack the next two rounds. If we think that the other guy is not a complete idiot, he will hit me again until I am dead and I stay unable to perform actions until then...

Do I miss something? Is there a defence against that?

13 minutes ago, Seguleh said:

Hi, it is about the weapon ability "concussive", like in the dragit-crytsals as option. From what I read if you get hit with a weapon with this ability, you are unable to perform an action for the number of rounds of the concussion value. To put it straight, if I am hit with this modified lightsaber with "concussion 2" I can not attack the next two rounds. If we think that the other guy is not a complete idiot, he will hit me again until I am dead and I stay unable to perform actions until then...

Do I miss something? Is there a defence against that?

The Concussive quality needs 2 Advantages to activate, but it is very strong. There is not a good defense against it, other than not getting hit (which is hard to do). Your opponent should just keep beating on you, unless you have friends around to help. For game balance, Concussive is fine in the hands of a Nemesis that's fighting multiple PCs and alternating attacks from one target to another. It's less ideal when multiple PCs use it to negate the threat of a singular big bad guy.

Hard Headed lets you spend an Action (even when Staggered) to throw off the Staggered condition, but you still effectively lose a turn's Action by using it. It's still something to consider if you're getting Staggered for 2+ turns.

When concussed, it may be best to try and just get out of there.

Ok thanks, sounds still terrible.

Where is that part with the two advantages needed to activate? In my F&D CRB there is no mention of 2 advantages (but this version I have is realy buggy) or is there a general paragraph for that? Last time a player mentioned that you also need two advantages for stun setting, but i don't think thats true.

4 minutes ago, Seguleh said:

Ok thanks, sounds still terrible.

Where is that part with the two advantages needed to activate? In my F&D CRB there is no mention of 2 advantages (but this version I have is realy buggy) or is there a general paragraph for that? Last time a player mentioned that you also need two advantages for stun setting, but i don't think thats true.

All active qualities require 2 advantages to activate unless stated otherwise.

Note that "Stun" is an active quality, where as "Stun Setting" or "Stun Damage" are passive qualities. Stun requires advantage to activate, Stun Damage does not.

1 hour ago, Seguleh said:

Ok thanks, sounds still terrible.

Where is that part with the two advantages needed to activate? In my F&D CRB there is no mention of 2 advantages (but this version I have is realy buggy) or is there a general paragraph for that? Last time a player mentioned that you also need two advantages for stun setting, but i don't think thats true.

Look at p.161 last paragraph on the left in the Core book, that is where the 2 Advantages are stated. The text before that gives you the general rundown of passive vs active qualities.

Since you still have a maneuver available (and can strain for a second), you might have some defensive options you can employ. At the very least, you can use Guarded Stance to throw a setback in their way. Depending on your talents/powers, you may be able to use Defensive Stance or Dodge to upgrade the incoming attacks. Upgrades and Setbacks might not stop you from getting hit, but they'll make it harder to get the advantages necessary to chain Concussive activations together.

Otherwise, using the maneuver control upgrade to Enhance might help you get out of there and reengage later after the effects have worn off. And next time, maybe you open the fight from further away...

If you have coordination dodge and 5 ranks of coordination and a destiny point you can make just about anything miss you. If you got coordination dodge from martial artist then you can also have precision strike which means thanks to the "discouraging wound" crit you can make sure you always destiny points to spend. And if you have a green nikto martial artist you get a free rank coordination, critical 3 from claws and you can decrease the critical cost to 1 with the 2 ranks of iron body so one advantage and you critical and get a destiny point and then you're untouchable by their next attack, and if you previously stacked the destiny pool all white you can do it a lot even if you don't score a critical in a particular round, so it doesn't matter if they have concussive

1 hour ago, EliasWindrider said:

If you have coordination dodge and 5 ranks of coordination and a destiny point you can make just about anything miss you. If you got coordination dodge from martial artist then you can also have precision strike which means thanks to the "discouraging wound" crit you can make sure you always destiny points to spend. And if you have a green nikto martial artist you get a free rank coordination, critical 3 from claws and you can decrease the critical cost to 1 with the 2 ranks of iron body so one advantage and you critical and get a destiny point and then you're untouchable by their next attack, and if you previously stacked the destiny pool all white you can do it a lot even if you don't score a critical in a particular round, so it doesn't matter if they have concussive

So it's not a problem if you've dumped a lot of XP into one highly specialized build. IOW, it's usually a problem.

Everything can become a problem if you don't know how to handle it an other example are 4 Players with crit one weapons, if you don't want you Inqisitorius down with 1-2 strikes he'll need ether a **** of parry (and strain threshold) or thougend or Armor master. If you have a lot of players with concussive you'll have to use more than just one enemy to get at em (e.g. the main baddy inquisitorius and a smaller "tanky" inquisitorius that hasn't much attack power (therefore something nasty like ensnare or concussive) but a very good cortosis soak with a shield and parry and of course Improved and Master Bodyguard with 2-3 ranks in bodyguard itself, then put one or two rivals with jetpacks in the mix dual wielding grenades (Glob) with spitfire and the players will have a **** of a day (worked like a charm with my powerplayers ^^)

And of course you can always invent a talent for your NPCs like " Free Bodymovement " - " spent a DP (or 3 strain or whatever) as an incidential to immediatly stop all status allignments caused by ensmare or concussive or Crits "

As for the players if they face foes using this sinister weapon abilitys they should have good friends with them to keep the foe at bay while recovering from stagger.

also the GM should consider what his players can handle and what would be unapropiate, e.g. no 1-on-1 duell with the enemy using concussive 2 (except the player would also go for that tactic, but then again as I mentioned... new NPC talents to avoid an to easy win or unclimatic win)

8 hours ago, HappyDaze said:

So it's not a problem if you've dumped a lot of XP into one highly specialized build. IOW, it's usually a problem.

It doesn't have to be that specialized. any species with claws or another natural weapon (like the tusks on a whipid) would work just as well. The green nikto is just 5 or 10 xp cheaper than others due to the free rank in coordination. And it would still work, though not as well with a critical rating of 3 so, it could be any species martial artist or a natural weapon species that took warden and performer. The build I posted was just the cheapest way to best pull it off, and your talking something in the neighborhood of 200-300 xp which really isn't all that much. If you start knight level, you're at least half way there if you take the optimum route.

But I do agree that if your gm decides to spam concussive on you, then you've got problems, the problems are just bigger than the actual spamming of concussive.

I am of the opinion that weapons, lightsabers included, can and should be broken, taken and lost as and when the dice results call for it. Items in the star was universe don't usually have any significance associated to it (unlike DnD where enchanted weapons are inherently valuable, unique and inherently designed to be expected to last). If an NPC is having especial trouble in a given situation, then it may be in his best interest to flee if he is very clearly outmatched; turning a fight to the death into a chase scene, which if he escapes gives him time to plan on how to deal with that Jedi with the loud saber.

It is quite easy to destroy a Lightsaber, every Despair of the wielder can damage them one step, one Triumph of the enemy can damage it one step - therefore the check should have damaged the enemy which then is exchanged to deal one point of damage to the Lightsaber (or any other equip) instead of any damage to the person!

Or of course the douple triumph that can destroy everything and deals damage to the wielder.

LS are only immune to the sunder quality not to beeing damaged or destroyed (just ask anakin about it ^^)

Stun-Locking: It's not just for video games anymore.

Why would this be on a lightsaber? Lightsabers weren't good enough as lightsabers?

I feel mine needs to be like a stun grenade or an rpg on a stick. FFS I wouldn't allow this quality on any weapon (in the book or no) that didn't create a pressure wave or have some similarly explained effect. And I wouldn't make it discriminate as far as who it hits if it's not a directional weapon.

On ‎9‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 7:41 AM, Lordbiscuit said:

I am of the opinion that weapons, lightsabers included, can and should be broken, taken and lost as and when the dice results call for it. Items in the star was universe don't usually have any significance associated to it (unlike DnD where enchanted weapons are inherently valuable, unique and inherently designed to be expected to last). If an NPC is having especial trouble in a given situation, then it may be in his best interest to flee if he is very clearly outmatched; turning a fight to the death into a chase scene, which if he escapes gives him time to plan on how to deal with that Jedi with the loud saber.

Brilliant. This is a really good observation. They don't really care about stuff in the movies most of the time. The Falcon is an exception, but I think I was more concerned about Luke's X-wing sinking into the swamp than he was lol. They just use the stuff, they don't worship it.

4 hours ago, Archlyte said:

Brilliant. This is a really good observation. They don't really care about stuff in the movies most of the time. The Falcon is an exception, but I think I was more concerned about Luke's X-wing sinking into the swamp than he was lol. They just use the stuff, they don't worship it.

My rough take for different styles of campaign is "Edge of Empire, you really care about the stuff", "Age of Rebellion, you care about the stuff you need to complete the mission", "Force and Destiny, you don't care about stuff".

Edit - Obviously this is broad brush and there will be exceptions!

3 hours ago, Darzil said:

My rough take for different styles of campaign is "Edge of Empire, you really care about the stuff", "Age of Rebellion, you care about the stuff you need to complete the mission", "Force and Destiny, you don't care about stuff".

Edit - Obviously this is broad brush and there will be exceptions!

That makes sense. I would say that the Edge sensibility would be about expenditure more than love of gadgets if it's to be true to the movies. The characters just don't seem to be too hung up on stuff. Money, sure, and by extension stuff as being worth money, but for the most part they act like they live in a highly throw away society. This makes rarity even more important though, because rarity would be the natural check for this attitude.