1 hour ago, DampfGecko said:

That's what I'm telling you, yes. If that happens, wouldn't we all be scratching our heads why Vader didn't do it on Hoth?

I like The Force Unleashed, but as a game. Star Wars is far better off without Force Users so overpowered it relegates every non-sensitive Being to irrelevancy just by existing. The sacrifice of thousands, if not millions, has no consequence if it all boils down to "the winning side won because they had/ turned the most potent force user to fight for them".

I'm okay with the fact that "the force has no Limits". Force- users, on the other hand, should have theirs clearly defined.

That's a fair comment, you want Star Wars and not Naruto/One Piece/Dragon Ball Super etc, etc.

3 hours ago, Managarmr said:

Or big conception not far from the sun moving with the sun all the time shadowing the planet - artificiell semipermanent solar eclipse. Ere comes the dark side.... (Read the Zahn triology decades ago, if I remember correctly there was
some abysmal large system of opening umbrellas really near the planet, shading it - would be less resource craving if you do it further away from the planet and nearer to the sun). Voila you have an epic structure to attack.

I believe you are confusing Shieldships with the Nightcloak of Dathomir in the The Courtship of Princess Leia novel.

A shieldship is a flying, heatresistant umbrella, big enough to protect a Dreadnought (but not a Star Destroyer) from sunlight.

The Nightcloak was a series of satellites, which when deployed, shield a planet completely from sunlight, triggering a massive temperature drop.

On ‎12‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 3:57 PM, BlodVargarna said:

Batman v Superman was one of the worst movies I've ever seen.

Do you know what the worst thing about that film was?

I was in the cinema, not enjoying it at all, but what made the experience horrible was all the children crying. One child actually started being sick, full on technicolour yawn. Superheroes are supposed to inspire youngsters, not traumatise them to the point of physical distress.

15 hours ago, Oberron said:

in the time span of 30 years we went from propeller aircraft tossing out bombs by hand to the nuclear bomb. I think 30 years in starwars can have a very similar outcome and have bigger and scarier things. (the starkiller base was kinda lazy though, at least it wasn't the suncrusher)

Yeah... except it isn't just about technology, it's about plot writing. It doesn't have to be realistic (it really isn't realistic to build any kind of device to actually blow up a planet , the way the death star was used in Rogue One was much more realistic) but verisimilitude is required. The death star was a small moon, or a really, really big space station. The scale was immense but probably not that much gravity (plus star wars has artificial gravity.) Hollowing out a whole planet to put a gun in just ... that's absurd.

14 hours ago, Kdubb said:

Learn to live with the idea that people's opinions are different and somewhere on this forum, someone's favorite movie is the Phantom Menace.

Goodness that last sentence hurt to type.

It's not my favourite movie but it does have some good, very star-warsy elements. Qui-Gon Jin is the archetypal Jedi to me, and Darth Maul has become the iconic Sith right behind Darth Vader. The fight scenes are great, there's a lot to like. Shame about Jar Jar and the midichlorians right? And say what you like about the prequels, they were at least inventive .

35 minutes ago, Ghost Mouse said:

Do you know what the worst thing about that film was?

I was in the cinema, not enjoying it at all, but what made the experience horrible was all the children crying. One child actually started being sick, full on technicolour yawn. Superheroes are supposed to inspire youngsters, not traumatise them to the point of physical distress.

Bah! That's the problem with kids today! Back in my time, we didn't have any of these newfangled "superheroes" or "movies". For entertainment, we just drank whatever we found in bottles beneath the sink. We spent most of our childhoods sick and miserable in great physical distress; and we liked it that way! It built character!

Of course, we never would have worried about who was directing an upcoming film, either. If we ever brought it up, Dad would just say, "What does it matter? It doesn't help put stale, moldy bread on the table!" And then he'd whoop us for three days straight for being uppity (except of course that when you went off to work in the coal mine for the day, you'd be expected to whoop yourself throughout your shift, and so help you if you thought that meant you could ease up on either the punishment or the work even the tiniest bit!)

3 hours ago, Viktus106 said:

Unless Snoke is Darth Plagueis the Wise?

Palp proclaims he killed him in his sleep, however, Darth Plaqueis was "so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the midichlorians to create life… He had such a knowledge of the dark side that he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying."

Qui-Gon, Yoda, Ben and for some weird reason, Anakin all carried on after their death, what is there saying that Darth Plagueis wasn't able to restore his physical body? Also, we know what 3 long minutes of constant "UNLIMITED POWWWWWERRRR" can do to a man so imagine what a lifetime of it would do to you, let alone bringing yourself back to life?

Now assuming that, imagine the amount of influence he would have in the outer rim/fringes of galaxy or even within the Empire itself? Allowing his formal apprentice to carry out a plan to which he THINKS is his own but in reality, it is all Plagueis. That would go some to explaining how the First Order had access to resources beyond their scope.

Just like the Illusive Man or Shadow Broker (Mass Effect), considered a small time player on the galactic stage (or a myth) yet able to influence the fate of humanity.

Like they say, "The Devil's greatest trick was convincing the world that he didn't exist."

(FYI - I know this is reaching by the way but it's interesting to talk about. )

I agree completely, there are possible explanations for the current state of the First Order, and Snoke being Darth Plagueis would be very cool.

However, until Disney gives an explanation (if they do at all) I still think it's lazy storytelling.

On 9/12/2017 at 10:57 AM, BlodVargarna said:

This part is really bad news:

" Lucasfilm says that Abrams will co-write the film with Chris Terrio, the screenwriter for Argo, Justice League , and Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice ."

Batman v Superman was one of the worst movies I've ever seen.

Argo was very good though.

9 hours ago, LordBlades said:

I agree completely, there are possible explanations for the current state of the First Order, and Snoke being Darth Plagueis would be very cool.

However, until Disney gives an explanation (if they do at all) I still think it's lazy storytelling.

Plagueis would be pretty sweet, but Palpatine is just too smart to fall for a trick like that. I wouldn't be surprised if Palp threw all his master's remains into a sun just to make sure.

Even if they eventually give an explanation, it'll be one or two movies late, which is still lazy.

23 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

So....general question here....why do sooo many people take issue with Rey being so "strong" with the force so quickly?

Its kinda obviously telegraphed as something unusual that its pretty clearly an intentional plot device. **** the name of the movie is Force Awakens. Finn finds the force first....in a moment of goodness in face of evil, Rey finds it second generally combined with anger and fear. Her absurd ability with the force sets up a huge amount of the intrigue with the next episode. If they dont follow up on it with a good explanation ill have my pitch fork out with the everyone else.

It was jarring at first definitely, but everytime I rewatch TFA it becomes more and more obvious that Rey is this kind of force sensitive time bomb. Outside of the Falcon Flip tie fighter kill she doesnt really demonstrate any inexplicable force ability until after she has that "force nightmare" which if you watch it and listen to it.....seems like she is have a serious encounter with the dark side more than anything else. After that scene her force capability sky rockets after running off into the woods.

After that vision the moment anything makes her "angry" or threatens her life.....her power cranks up a bunch of levels.

When the Storm Troopers are in the woods, and she shoots and misses the first time she gets pissed and shoots and kills him with "no" prior experience with a blaster.

When Kylo tries to read her mind for the map she gets angry and stops him.

When Finn gets cut down. She gets angry and uses force pull for the first time.

Kylo recognizes it and stops mid battle just to offer to teach her. When he drives her to the literal edge of a cliff....she "looks" like she is centering herself but whose to say she is channeling the light side there....then instead when she turns on him you can visibly see rage fueling her as she cuts him down. Go back and rewatch that specific scene, pause right after she opens her eyes to attack, the face she makes is pure dark side rage. And she keeps that anger all the way through until Kylo is on the ground.

Literally everytime she uses the force in a "unreasonably" powerful way anger is a factor and it happens like a freight train primarily one scene after another AFTER the force night terror scene.

Most telling Snoke seems happy about Rey, like another Sith is back on the board or something.

Then to cap it all off....when she finally tracks down Luke.....he doesnt just look sad....he looks like a moment he has been dreading a long time has finally come to bare....Rey's force power developed on its own and now he has to deal with keeping her from becoming the obviously hate fueled possibly naturally born sith that she is.

Im not saying TFA explained all of that well, or even demonstrated that as what was happening to the audience in an obvious way....but I would be shocked if TLJ or EP9 doesnt provide some legitimate satifafying explanation for her absurd force sensitivity.

She might not end up a Sith in the end but she seems awfully close to already being one.

Just ask yourself this the next time you rewatch TFA....how many of her most "force sensitive" moments are motivated by something other than anger?

Maybe the rage face she makes when she takes the advantage in the fight with Kylo is just the way that actor looks when stressed....but im hard pressed to believe that entire scene in particular wasnt carefully planned to look the way it did down to the last intentional detail.

Until she channels that anger she is getting beat badly by Kylo...then after she lets the dark side consume her everything changes. She even calls this the force in that scene...but doesnt know...its just the dark side she is using.

shes a white princess in a disney film thats being used to sell boy toys to girls... she isnt a secret bad guy that disney is sneaking in. i totally agree that she is a fear and hate fueled mess, but disneys star wars hype machine has been marketing Daisy Ridley and John Boyega as proof they can make a non white guy hero film.

@Vontoothskie

im not saying she will end up the bad guy. I just think its very likely that the explanation for the suddness and level of her power will have alot to do with the dark side of the force.

Basically im expecting to see an arc similar to Lukes where she is on the edge of falling to the dark side, and her case she might start there and have to work her way back to the light with Luke and Finn's help. Ep 8 will mostly likely be her characters low point, and that probably means she ends up super close to falling to the dark side.

No way she ends up the "bad guy", though id still prefer to see her join her brother Kylo become full evil and then lose to Jedi Finn in Ep 9.....but yea thats pretty unlikely.

Either way, anger and her father/mother or clone father (palpatine) should cleanly explain the extreme nature of her force ability.

13 hours ago, The Inquisitor said:

Hollowing out a whole planet to put a gun in just ... that's absurd.

Well, I don't think the whole planet was hollowed out. And the planet, or at least its core, was special for some reason. Perhaps its core was one big Kyber crystal or something. That would be worthy of the biggest excavation project ever.

Besides, star destroyers could have cut that giganic canyon into the starkiller planet rather easily in 5 to 10 years, plenty of time.

think about what it did for the movie to have Starkiller base built into a planet: we got to see Triumph of the Will with Ginger Hitler, and the awesome visuals of the beam firing from ground level. We got a scenario where the Falcon could land on the base in a unique way. We got snow troopers! We got an awesome saber duel in the snowy woods with earthquakes and chasms. It's also at least somewhat imaginative to build a super weapon into a planet, you have to admit that.

5 minutes ago, GrimmyV said:

It's also at least somewhat imaginative to build a super weapon into a planet, you have to admit that.

"Alright guys. We need new ideas. And I know we all love it, but we can't do the super weapon built into a planet again. Ideas? Joe?"

*Joe suddenly stops eating ice cream sandwich*

"Oh!! Oh, um... well let's see. No super weapon built into a planet... right. But what about... a PLANET.... That's built... into a super weapon?"

"My goodness Joe, you're a genius! You've done it again!!!"

15 minutes ago, GrimmyV said:

Well, I don't think the whole planet was hollowed out. And the planet, or at least its core, was special for some reason. Perhaps its core was one big Kyber crystal or something. That would be worthy of the biggest excavation project ever.

Besides, star destroyers could have cut that giganic canyon into the starkiller planet rather easily in 5 to 10 years, plenty of time.

think about what it did for the movie to have Starkiller base built into a planet: we got to see Triumph of the Will with Ginger Hitler, and the awesome visuals of the beam firing from ground level. We got a scenario where the Falcon could land on the base in a unique way. We got snow troopers! We got an awesome saber duel in the snowy woods with earthquakes and chasms. It's also at least somewhat imaginative to build a super weapon into a planet, you have to admit that.

A kyber crystal the size of a planet's core could do better things than make a physics defying hyper-laser. It would explain why they burrowed into the planet, but not why they didn't make a light-years long lightsaber out of it.

Star destroyers could melt it into slag, which would stay in the hole created by melting it in the first place. I don't think ISDs have the power to blow chunks into orbit, so that won't work. Conventional mining would suffice in 10 years with the resources of the Empire.

Hearing the phrase "Ginger Hitler" made my day!

The visual was, again, a CGI creation. Rogue One had similar graphics with the Death Star. It wasn't about it being specifically SKB, but rather about a generic super-laser firing. +1 for snow troopers, I'll admit.

The only lightsaber combat worse than TFA was in A New Hope due to lack of choreography. I've had a bit of training, and they way they were going at it made the outcome pure chance. Again, better CGI was what made the scene.

It's only imaginative if it provides some kind of benefit. They gave it a self destruct button, thereby making any planet-armour useless.

27 minutes ago, GrimmyV said:

Well, I don't think the whole planet was hollowed out. And the planet, or at least its core, was special for some reason. Perhaps its core was one big Kyber crystal or something. That would be worthy of the biggest excavation project ever.

Besides, star destroyers could have cut that giganic canyon into the starkiller planet rather easily in 5 to 10 years, plenty of time.

think about what it did for the movie to have Starkiller base built into a planet: we got to see Triumph of the Will with Ginger Hitler, and the awesome visuals of the beam firing from ground level. We got a scenario where the Falcon could land on the base in a unique way. We got snow troopers! We got an awesome saber duel in the snowy woods with earthquakes and chasms. It's also at least somewhat imaginative to build a super weapon into a planet, you have to admit that.

everything you just referenced as good is what I thought was bad.

the ground beam was especially dumb because firing that gun would ignite the atmosphere and burn most of the planet in the proccess.

I don't get why everyone thinks the Starkiller Base had a "self-destruct button" like the original Death Star did. With the first Death Star, I totally get the complaints. One small torpedo into a tiny little exhaust port, and the whole thing goes kaboom. With Starkiller Base, you have a totally different situation. First off, the source of Starkiller Base's power. You have all the energy of an entire Star compressed inside a planet-sized mass. All that power had to be contained somewhere before being turned into a giant laser that tunnels through hyperspace. And that's pretty much what Finn tells us in the movie. 'So here's the thing that regulates the energy that this weapon takes in. Blow that up, and all that energy has to go somewhere, right?' And unlike with the Death Star, they actually had to blast their way into the base, not just fire a single torpedo down a little hole. Yes, the superweapon still had the problem of "if you severely damage this one particular part, the whole thing explodes." But in this case, it makes perfect sense. The weapon absorbed a whole star. Destroy the thing holding that star, and it has to go somewhere.

25 minutes ago, Underachiever599 said:

I don't get why everyone thinks the Starkiller Base had a "self-destruct button" like the original Death Star did. With the first Death Star, I totally get the complaints. One small torpedo into a tiny little exhaust port, and the whole thing goes kaboom. With Starkiller Base, you have a totally different situation. First off, the source of Starkiller Base's power. You have all the energy of an entire Star compressed inside a planet-sized mass. All that power had to be contained somewhere before being turned into a giant laser that tunnels through hyperspace. And that's pretty much what Finn tells us in the movie. 'So here's the thing that regulates the energy that this weapon takes in. Blow that up, and all that energy has to go somewhere, right?' And unlike with the Death Star, they actually had to blast their way into the base, not just fire a single torpedo down a little hole. Yes, the superweapon still had the problem of "if you severely damage this one particular part, the whole thing explodes." But in this case, it makes perfect sense. The weapon absorbed a whole star. Destroy the thing holding that star, and it has to go somewhere.

In terms of thermal exhaust ports, it's conceivable that the Death Star doesn't emit Black Body Radiation and so, in the vacuum of space, some kind of exhaust port is entirely necessary. They made it as small as possible and ray shielded it, as well as having anti-capital ship defenses that were unparalleled. Galen Erso spent 20 years as a prisoner and gave his life to keep the secret hidden, and if Tarkin hadn't been so arrogant, the Death Star would have survived.

For Starkiller Base, it's clear there was no long-term inside job since the Regulator was destroyed by a frontal assault, and the inside agent would have alerted the galaxy to it in any way possible. They show hundreds of TIE/fo fighters within defense range of the Regulator, yet Poe and friends only have to destroy a couple of them to get inside. Captain Phasma disabling the shields is inexcusable - it simply doesn't make sense.

The original Death Star was assaulted by 24 of the Rebellions best pilots, and even then they only succeeded because of Luke's force abilities. Starkiller base was destroyed by a single squadron of fighters with minimal casualties.

It's a self-destruct button, just with an accurate scale factor for the Death Star III.

4 hours ago, Astech said:

The original Death Star was assaulted by 24 of the Rebellions best pilots, and even then they only succeeded because of Luke's force abilities. Starkiller base was destroyed by a single squadron of fighters with minimal casualties

Skb was a joint operation by ground forces bombing the most sensitive areas of the power regulator after the shields were lowered allowing the very experienced Resistence pilots access to fly into the regulator itself and use an infinite amount of Torpedoes to blow the place up. Even then the base took a LONG time to completely explode.

its my theory that Poe's X-wing was full of nothing but torpedoes and machismo.

6 hours ago, Vontoothskie said:

everything you just referenced as good is what I thought was bad.

Fair enough. I just tend to play devils advocate and defend the weak of body and mind. Poor TFA, it's not its fault it was created by committee to appeal to as wide an audience as possible.

6 hours ago, Vontoothskie said:

the ground beam was especially dumb because firing that gun would ignite the atmosphere and burn most of the planet in the proccess.

Why would it ignite or burn anything? Was it thermal energy being emitted? It's crazy red self guided 'hyper-lightspeed' energy, exotic and unknown to anything we know. Assuming its physical properties based on our understanding is disingenuous.

6 hours ago, Astech said:

A kyber crystal the size of a planet's core could do better things than make a physics defying hyper-laser. It would explain why they burrowed into the planet, but not why they didn't make a light-years long lightsaber out of it.

Well the energy beam kinda looked like Kylo's crazy lightsabre, red, lightning like, almost unstable. It could have been a giant lightsabre! Sorta. It definitely wasn't a 'traditional' superlaser.

8 hours ago, Astech said:

The only lightsaber combat worse than TFA was in A New Hope due to lack of choreography. I've had a bit of training, and they way they were going at it made the outcome pure chance. Again, better CGI was what made the scene.

The prequel duels were absurd. Flipping and leaping. You say you've had training, then you'd recognize the straight from the woodcut fechtbuch scene with Rey and Kylo struggling. It was fantastic.

33 minutes ago, BlodVargarna said:

The prequel duels were absurd. Flipping and leaping. You say you've had training, then you'd recognize the straight from the woodcut fechtbuch scene with Rey and Kylo struggling. It was fantastic.

Lightsabre duels are all about the emotion behind the characters, not about the fancy swordplay. TFA had the second most awesome duel in SW! Raw emotion, characters who hated each other and were totally throwing everything they had into the fight despite being hurt physically and/or emotionally.

Good a good director to finish off the new trilogy.

11 hours ago, GrimmyV said:

Well, I don't think the whole planet was hollowed out. And the planet, or at least its core, was special for some reason. Perhaps its core was one big Kyber crystal or something. That would be worthy of the biggest excavation project ever.

Besides, star destroyers could have cut that giganic canyon into the starkiller planet rather easily in 5 to 10 years, plenty of time.

Well I don't think the lack of strict realism is the real problem here, but no if you try to cut the middle out of a planet you still get a spherical planet that's rather hot. Gravity would just crush it together unless it was much smaller than it looks. That's why planets are spherical in the first place, no matter what shape you start with when you get that much mass together it smooshes. Technical term. Death star was well within "suspend disbelief" size, starkiller jumped the shark. And the problem with "yeah but what about if" explanations is: they weren't given in the movie and that doesn't necessarily help that much with verisimilitude anyway. The first Death Star reveal was an awesome moment. Starkiller base? My reaction (and I was thoroughly enjoying TFA up to that point) was a mixture of again? and that's just stupid . And I don't think I was alone in that. If that's the reaction you get from a fairly forgiving fan moviegoer, you've written a crappy script. It broke suspension of disbelief and immersion in the universe at the same time as I was suddenly aware it was episode IV again and it was so ridiculous it hurt. I still enjoyed the rest of the film just for the fun ride but it was a jolt at the time and really didn't stand up to any kind of thought about it afterwards. They were so keen to avoid the mistakes of the prequels they played it too safe at the expense of plot, of realism, of making a good movie.

Quote

think about what it did for the movie to have Starkiller base built into a planet: we got to see Triumph of the Will with Ginger Hitler, and the awesome visuals of the beam firing from ground level. We got a scenario where the Falcon could land on the base in a unique way. We got snow troopers! We got an awesome saber duel in the snowy woods with earthquakes and chasms. It's also at least somewhat imaginative to build a super weapon into a planet, you have to admit that.

All the cool things in TFA could have been there with a better plot. And it might have been original apart from the other 3 star wars movies with planetoid death lasers . Not being original is the whole complaint! It wasn't like TFA wasn't imaginative in places. It had the opposite problem to the prequels, which had a pretty good overall story arc but screwed up on the particulars, TFA did the details pretty well but the overall arc was just a rehash. And it isn't even like there weren't cool hidden details, Kylo's lightsabre due to a cracked crystal, which suits him perfectly - powerful, unstable, broken.

11 hours ago, Astech said:

It's only imaginative if it provides some kind of benefit. They gave it a self destruct button, thereby making any planet-armour useless.

Yup. Still got to be able to to take it out with one-man fighters, right?

2 hours ago, BlodVargarna said:

The prequel duels were absurd. Flipping and leaping. You say you've had training, then you'd recognize the straight from the woodcut fechtbuch scene with Rey and Kylo struggling. It was fantastic.

I actually think the end of Phantom Menace had absolutely some of the best lightsabre fights and indeed was a great bit of cinema on its own merits. Shame about the rest of the movie, eh? But there was nothing wrong with any of the action in TFA.

On 12.9.2017 at 4:55 PM, Vontoothskie said:

wow, that really sucks. force awakens was soooo bad. almost as bad as Phantom Menace. particularly with Rogue One being so incredibly excellent, its really just an embarassment that theyd hire Abrahms again

I don't know about that. Now TFA was indeed pretty bad, but I think Rogue one was even worse. The only redeeming feature was the space battle in rogue one, they both scrap at TPM levels, and imho from below, not above. Or they would if the TMP effects would not have aged so badly on top.

1 minute ago, SEApocalypse said:

I don't know about that. Now TFA was indeed pretty bad, but I think Rogue one was even worse. The only redeeming feature was the space battle in rogue one, they both scrap at TPM levels, and imho from below, not above. Or they would if the TMP effects would not have aged so badly on top.

Ahahhaha. wow. Rogue One was ******* awesome.